Tex

Well, of course adding multiplayer would require code changes. So would anybody else's proposals. This particular one is my take on it.

Yes, which is why I postulated that you would have to adjust the trajectory accordingly to actually get to the destination. It doesn't make it impossible, just needs a slight tweak in the flight plan.

Let's make sure to keep on topic, and see what @Julian. thinks should be specifically updated for the physics to make submarines work better.

It's not technically propulsion because you need to expend fuel only to set the orbital trajectory, the actual warping itself doesn't consume fuel and has no power to change your direction. If you applied the same thing to a car, you can coast on a highway, and when you take your foot off the gas you lose the ability to steer but gain the ability to go in a perfectly straight line at any apparent speed you want without consuming fuel. It does make things trivial, but I figure that people can either have the super-realism standard offered by single player, or the ability to cooperate with players, build space stations together, have races on Duna, and all that stuff without having to worry about mucking about with time travel. Not creating new or unique time streams, per se, because from the moment the server goes online, the time flow used by the game remains unchanged. It would be impossible to affect time in the multiplayer setting with this idea. Unfortunately, that means for ~6 hours at a time, the KSC would be dark, but there is a trade-off of sacrifices and gains made that I want to see what people think about.

I went ahead and did actually move this to Challenges, @DarkOwl57, because it's set up exactly like a challenge is. I think I'll actually give it a go eventually.

Precisely. The ship can be anywhere along its orbit when the warp engages, but when the player is not warping, the vessel most certainly rests at one point at a given time. The planets and other bodies, however, are not affected because they are not controlled by this warp.

That is exactly what I'm saying, yes. I do agree that it is not a perfect solution. It does take away from the hard-as-rock scientific basis somewhat. I counter this by saying that you still do have to carefully build your spaceships, plan your missions, and actually have the fuel in order to make these maneuvers. As any interplanetary traveller will tell you, without the proper launch windows and intercepts, it becomes much more difficult in order to actually get to a planet. You need to expend more fuel and do some unconventional things to get there. This solution isn't meant to be pretty, and to be perfectly honest I don't think it will be ultimately implemented. The only thing I wanted was to have a discussion about it and any possible solutions to how to make multiplayer work in comparing this idea to others. This idea has its drawbacks like any other, but I think it's one possible way to do it.

I still think people are missing the point. This warping idea is not a propulsion system, and as I've said before encounters would not be as we currently understand how to do them. To do them in regular KSP, you need to burn to create an orbit that intercepts the orbital path of a celestial body, essentially being in the same place at the same time. However, with this warp idea I've tried to explain, you don't need to wait for the Mun or Jool or whatever to actually go anywhere for you to intercept it. You just burn the fuel you need to go straight to the destination. In regular time-warping, this would not work, because as you got to the Mun's altitude away from Kerbin, for example, the Mun would have moved away in that time and you get no intercept. With this idea, you WOULD get an intercept because the Mun didn't go anywhere. It still moves, but at the normal speed which it orbits. The only thing moving faster or differently is the vessel. I bolded a section of @Cucco-Master's quote up there to show what I mean. While you technically could do what he described, it would take weeks, months, or years to actually accomplish it because no planet is moving faster than normal. It is exactly the same as never touching the time-warp button in a regular game. That's how every body moves, all the time, no matter what. The only way you could get to a body with Non-Time Time-Warp is having your orbital path, the blue line in the Tracking Station, crossing the SOI of the body you wanted, and then warping there. That's the only way. Your vessel cannot use Non-Time Time-Warping as a propulsion system. It just zips you around, on-rails, according to the orbital path you have. I do feel that I'm repeating myself, but it's as if people aren't understanding this concept no matter how I try to describe it. Everything functions normally, except in that instance that you actually use the warp. Then you move faster on-rails. That's all.

I break your struts with a simple decoupler.

I see that you're adamant about having submarines work better, but you're not really elaborating. What do you see as needing improvement?

Perhaps you can elaborate a little? What kinds of updates to KSP's physics are needed?

I clip parts in nearly every single build I make. It's a brilliant way to make better-looking rockets and other vehicles. Sometimes its necessary in order to get the aesthetic you need for a particular build, but other times you can make things look simply awesome.

Why're you taking requests to be put in the description?

@razark is hitting what I mean. It's not throwing out the concept of time in KSP, it's not making anything else go wonky. The Only Thing Affected By This Idea Is The Vessel Itself Nothing else. No celestial bodies are going crazy because time is progressing normally, one second at a time like always. You will still need to burn, expend fuel, in order to get the orbital trajectory to actually go places like the Mun or Jool. The ONLY thing this idea that I've called Non-Time Time Warp does is make you get to the destination faster. It does not alter your actual speed. It does not alter time. It does not alter orbital mechanics or physics, and I honestly am at a loss as to why people think it affects it. The only thing being affected by this idea is the vessel itself. This form of warping will not allow you to propel your ship in any direction other than what the vessel is stuck to according to the orbital trajectory that you had to create with a burn. Burning, orbital insertion, orbital maneuvers, actually landing on the Mun or wherever else is exactly the same. This warp just gets you between points of gameplay faster.

That's another good option, and indeed I think that it should be added as well. Multiplayer, though, is an addition that's been much-discussed and wanted for quite some time. Imagine building actual rockets and spaceships with a friend and then blowing them up together in real time

That could definitely be an option, one I've heard a few times before. The 'Democratic Approach,' as I shall henceforth call it. It would definitely keep things nice and tidy, as well as make players actually have to calculate how long they'd need to spend in warp. The one big issue that I think the Democratic Approach has is that some players might not be able to/willing to warp for extended periods of time, which could get frustrating and cause friction between players. It is actually a good idea, but forces cooperation. Some players might just want to do their own thing at a given time.

Actually give the presentation, of course

If I understood this correctly, I respond with my earlier comments that it would require a different trajectory. You would not seek an intercept, per se, you would aim for where the ISS would be. However, because it wouldn't have gravity on the order of the Moon/Mun, you would get into a nearly-identical orbit to match the speed, then warp to match to near the station's location.

How would it not? It is moving on-rails faster. That's the idea summed up in a sentence. It is moving along the exact same orbital path, but once a player hits the warp button to start the warp, they simply move along their orbit faster. I'm just seeing a disconnect between what you see as my idea and what I see it as. Yes, the math would no longer work, because the vessel would move impossibly fast. It is not possible to double the speed of an object and have the orbit remain the same in real life. This suggestion, however, is for a video game. It would not be game-breaking, because this suggestion is meant to retain game playablity for players in multiplayer. It would be math-breaking. This suggestion in a nutshell is moving on-rails faster. No intentional physics breaks, no orbital shenanigans. I think we're attempting to argue two completely different points here, that's the only explanation I can come up with. And for that point, I agree. You wouldn't be where you should be after three seconds, but what is affected other than the vessel's position in space? All it is is moving a vessel to a different point in the exact same orbit. I'm repeating this point because that is all I'm trying to say.

I agree that KSP's realistic representation of physics is what makes the game so amazing, why I fell in love with it. That's why I'm proposing this idea- I'm not attempting to distort the physics or alter how the game works, that was never the intention. However, by warping as I have mentioned, merely moving impossibly fast along the already-established orbital trajectories made by the vessel during burns, the vessel actually does move in a scientifically predictable way. In fact, I would say that this method of warp-driving or wormhole-warping or whatever else you want to call it, is a more realistic and feasible interpretation of teleportation or using wormholes than has been used by other games and works of fiction. Using the Non-Time Time-Warp during just a standard orbit of Kerbin would not allow the vessel infinite propulsion and allow them to teleport magically to, say, another star system. What it would allow the vessel to do, the only physics-breaky part of the whole affair, is move along its orbital path faster. Time would not be affected- a day on Kerbin is still a Kerbin day. The Mun wouldn't change its orbit or speed, and nor would another player. Instead of only being able to orbit about once or one and a half times in a Kerbin hour, however, the player that is warping could choose to orbit once, twice, four times, a hundred, or a hundred thousand times in the exact same period of time. It's not a propulsion system, unless you count scooting the vessel along on-rails as a propulsion system (which could be argued for). You would eventually reach the exact same point waiting thirty minutes as you would warping for twenty seconds, the only difference is that, to us, the player, it would take twenty seconds, and not an hour. Perhaps this is a better explanation?

8/10 Big space explosion, very nice.

Banned for Saturn.

(gonna answer the above, as Wink didn't post a question) Granted. They like their personal space, and want everybody else out of it. I wish I didn't have to act so much tonight.

Ah... I see a point here, about the bodies not being where they are supposed to be. The bodies actually would be where they were meant to be, because time is not being altered. The only thing being affected by Non-Time Time-Warp is the vessel itself, no other planet or moon is, not even other players. Time is not being disrupted, and the warp only affects the controlled vessel. Is this the part that was confusing, perhaps?

Still waiting for a report as to whether you're gonna present this or not, @StupidAndy.