FreeThinker

[1.2.2] KSP Interstellar Extended 1.12.14 (25-3-2017) Development

8399 posts in this topic

36 minutes ago, Popetastic said:

Thanks for the answer. As far as the relays go, can you relay multiple sources of power with one ship? For example, say I have a ship with an IR mirror, a UV mirror, and a microwave relay on board. Can the IR mirrors relay to an IR receiver on ship A while a UV mirror relays to a UV receiver to ship B, etc, at the same time? 

Yes, they should be.

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Why pure Hydrogen fusion mode was removed from table?

Even though it wouldn't be very efficient, reactor could work forever when orbiting low enough for air scoops to be able to gather enough hydrogen.

 

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Is there a table for how far the beam wavelengths can travel? I'm trying to figure out if I should use long IR or near IR for my Jool network. I've got an antimatter reactor with collectors in orbit around Jool with a network of IR mirrors orbiting each body. Also, is there any benefit to using a diode laser generator vs a free electron laser?

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, raxo2222 said:

Why pure Hydrogen fusion mode was removed from table?

Even though it wouldn't be very efficient, reactor could work forever when orbiting low enough for air scoops to be able to gather enough hydrogen.

 

 
 
 
 

The reaction rate of Hydrogen-Hydrogen is extremely low, even at the optimal temperature those tiny protons have a very low chance of merging, beside that, most energy is in the form of gamma radiation.

Instead we now have p-N15 fusion, which means infinite aneutronic Fusion power in any atmosphere containing nitrogen, alternatively use D-D fusion, but that produces neutrons.

Edited by FreeThinker

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So regarding beamed power transmission, what are the advantages and disadvantages of the different wavebands? For what I see and understand in the editor, infrared looses the less power when converting from megajoules (or was it megawatts) to the beam but has the shorter range while ultraviolet is the opposite. Am I right? Is there something else to consider? And where does microwave falls regarding infrarred, visible light and ultraviolet?

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Is this relay properly designed? It's receiving microwave power from the ground, but the part that's supposed to relay shows "input power offline"

HSamVa2.png

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24 minutes ago, juanml82 said:

Is this relay properly designed? It's receiving microwave power from the ground, but the part that's supposed to relay shows "input power offline"

HSamVa2.png

I see why this confused you but in this context the receiver is not active receival mode. It sais nothing related to relaying. The only relevant information here is that it relays beamed power in the microwave brandwidth which is from 1 mm to 1 meter

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1 minute ago, FreeThinker said:

I see why this confused you but in this context the receiver is not active receival mode. It sais nothing related to relaying. The only relevant information here is that it relays beamed power in the microwave brandwidth which is from 1 mm to 1 meter

So, uh, what's wrong? It is in line of sight with a generator transmitting from the ground, just west of the KSC

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@FreeThinker, if you're interested, maybe I found a new possible use for the QSR, more precisely its black hole. We can use it to produce gravity and therefore propulsion, or to beam gravity like a laser, with greater efficency: http://www.hpcc-space.de/publications/documents/AIAA-2009-5069-885Gravitational_Field_Propulsion.pdf

 

I have to study better the document and maybe find some other ones, but are you interested?

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Posted (edited)

On 18-3-2017 at 7:29 PM, juanml82 said:

So regarding beamed power transmission, what are the advantages and disadvantages of the different wavebands? For what I see and understand in the editor, infrared looses the less power when converting from megajoules (or was it megawatts) to the beam but has the shorter range while ultraviolet is the opposite. Am I right? Is there something else to consider? And where does microwave falls regarding infrarred, visible light and ultraviolet?

 

In general you are correct: the longer the wavelength, the more efficient it can be transmitted and received but the shorter the effective range. Besides that there are a few curve balls in the receivers. The are several methods of converting beamed power into electric power each with there advantages and disadvantages (like everything in KSPIE). First there it the thermal carnot cycle conversion. The advantage is it can receive power in virtual any wavelength at an average efficiency. The disadvantage is the large mass and volume cost and radiator requirement cost to be efficient. The second method is thermal electric which reduced mass cost at the expense of efficiency. Third is beamed power by photovoltaic, aka Solar cells. There big advantage is they can be significantly lighter then other receiver tapes and can be stored more compactly.  There optimal receivфд is in the near infrared but they can also receive power in the visible spectrum. Forth are the thermal photovoltaics which receive in almost any wavelength and conмert the power into short infrared which is then converted into electric by a photovoltaic cell. It is less efficient the photovoltaic but more efficient then thermal electric and requires large surfaces. Fifth there are rectenna which is one of the most efficient beam to power converter methods and also relatively light. The big caveat it can only be effective at specific bandwidths and the shorter wavelength get only unlocked at higher tech nodes. The Sixt method is the phased array which have similar advantage and disadvantage as rectennas with the added bonus of beeing able to relay or transmit. Besides beam to power conversion. the ability to fold and collect the beamed power also have a big effect on their effectivity. Dishes allow beamed power to be focused for more effective receival or transmitting. Receivers that gave the build-in ability to pivot are able to receiver from a much large angle than those that are fixed and need to be aimed directly at the transmitter. An extreme example is the oversized thermal receiver which is a 2.5 package unfolds into a 100m diameter receiver but it needs to be aimed directly at a receiver. There are many types of receiver each with unique ability which makes them ideal in specific circumstances.

Edited by FreeThinker
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I have found a strange behavior and before I get too crazy with putting together a bug report I figured I'd try a basic explanation to see if this behavior is intended.

Two vessels, vessel A and vessel B connected by a stack separator.  Vessel A is a simple command pod craft with no Interstellar or other power generating parts and vessel B has a tri-alpha with all necessary doodads for it to function (radiators, etc.).  If I launch vessel A by itself, no problem.  If I launch vessel B by itself, no problem.  The reactor is producing about 2.85GW of power.  Then I connect the vessels in the VAB with a stack separator and the root part is on vessel A.  That last bit is important.  So it looks like this:

Vessel A (root) -> Stack Decoupler -> Vessel B

If I launch this craft, the power plant is still producing 2.85GW of power.  If I decouple the vessels the reactor shuts down and cannot be restarted.  If I return to the VAB and make the tri-alpha the root part, launch the vessel and decouple the tri-alpha continues running normally.  So this setup works:

Vessel A -> Stack Decoupler -> Vessel B (root)

Now, this is happening on a really big craft (300+ parts) but even if I isolate it to just the two parts of the craft that are essentially a command pod and a reactor I can reproduce it reliably.  Before I make a simplest reproducible craft I figured I'd ask if this is expected behavior.  So, is it?

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9 minutes ago, DoubleUU said:

I have found a strange behavior and before I get too crazy with putting together a bug report I figured I'd try a basic explanation to see if this behavior is intended.

Two vessels, vessel A and vessel B connected by a stack separator.  Vessel A is a simple command pod craft with no Interstellar or other power generating parts and vessel B has a tri-alpha with all necessary doodads for it to function (radiators, etc.).  If I launch vessel A by itself, no problem.  If I launch vessel B by itself, no problem.  The reactor is producing about 2.85GW of power.  Then I connect the vessels in the VAB with a stack separator and the root part is on vessel A.  That last bit is important.  So it looks like this:

Vessel A (root) -> Stack Decoupler -> Vessel B

If I launch this craft, the power plant is still producing 2.85GW of power.  If I decouple the vessels the reactor shuts down and cannot be restarted.  If I return to the VAB and make the tri-alpha the root part, launch the vessel and decouple the tri-alpha continues running normally.  So this setup works:

Vessel A -> Stack Decoupler -> Vessel B (root)

Now, this is happening on a really big craft (300+ parts) but even if I isolate it to just the two parts of the craft that are essentially a command pod and a reactor I can reproduce it reliably.  Before I make a simplest reproducible craft I figured I'd ask if this is expected behavior.  So, is it?

Have you tried to Quicksave and Quickload?

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Posted (edited)

40 minutes ago, Nansuchao said:

Have you tried to Quicksave and Quickload?

Yes, that doesn't seem to help.  I was able to create a stock reproducible craft.  The location of the tri-alpha in the stack matters.  If it is above the root part it will shut down when decoupled.  if it is below the root part it will continue running.  I put a Mk 1 capsule, a 1.25m stack decoupler, an umbrella radiator and the tri-alpha in a stack (top to bottom) with the capsule as the root.  Launch, decouple, reactor continues to run.  I move the stack so from the top it goes umbrella radiator, tri-alpha, decoupler, capsule.  When decoupling the reactor shuts down.

I'm guessing that is not intended behavior?

P.S.  Actually, I'm guessing that the direction of the decoupler perhaps matters?

P.P.S.  No, that didn't make a difference.  Reversing the decoupler on the broken stack is still broken.

Edit:  Sorry for all the edits.  So I have 5 parts now, from top to bottom:

  • Radiator
  • Tri-alpha
  • Container
  • Decoupler
  • Capsule

If I make the container the root the reactor will still function after decoupling so I guess it matters that the root part is on the same side of the decoupler as the reactor, not necessarily that the reactor is the root part.  Also, the reactor can be above the root but not above the stage containing the root or it will shut down when decoupling.

Edited by DoubleUU
Typos
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Posted (edited)

Hey, not sure if anyone saw this but I just wanted to double check.

I'm stuck back a few versions because when I upgraeded to 1.12.x,  some mining operations became useless when the option to just mine the default "ore" from KSP disappeared from the drill options.

Was this a deliberate change in the mining operations due to KSPI-E and I missed it in the notes, or is it likely to be a conflict with another mod?

I'd appreciate any help anyone has to offer.

 

Edit:  Never mind -- I looked back and found the removal of the generic liq fuel / oxidizer categories had been in the works for a while.  Guess I'll delay patching up to 1.12 until I've gotten tired of my current game.

Edited by BlueCat

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On 14.3.2017 at 9:00 AM, barfing_skull said:

Greeting!

 

I upgraded to 1.12.12 from 1.12.11 on CKAN.  However, it appears my graphene radiators on existing vessels have stopped cooling NearFuture reactors.  I haven't tried this on other parts, so I don't know if it's a cross-mod thing or if the config for the graphene radiators is having problems everywhere.

 

I downgraded to 1.12.11 and low and behold, the radiators cool my reactors again.  No other changes to other mods, so I'm pretty sure this is the culprit.

 

I did a diff and the only significant thing I can find for the radiators was this in the config, something similar for most of the radiators:


18c18
< 	title = Graphene Radiator Folding Medium
---
> 	title = Graphite Radiator Folding Medium
83d82
< 		areaMultiplierAtmosphere = 1

The "areaMultiplerAtmosphere" is new, so I'm guessing that's causing the problem.  My vessels were not in any atmosphere.

Thoughts, or am I off base here?

Cheers,

-BS

Same Problem. I use the mod in combination with Near Future mods. My Reactors (Near Future Reactor with Interstellar Radiators) are overheating since this patch. Hope it helps ...

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Posted (edited)

What reactor/generator/radiator setup produces most energy per kg of dry mass?

Lets say everything is fully upgraded.

I want to make tiny EM drive powered craft :P

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

If I wanted to make highest TWR ship what I should pick?

Edited by raxo2222

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50 minutes ago, raxo2222 said:

What reactor/generator/radiator setup produces most energy per kg of dry mass?

Lets say everything is fully upgraded.

I want to make tiny EM drive powered craft :P

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

If I wanted to make highest TWR ship what I should pick?

Not sure on the first question but I think you get two different answers on the second maybe, one for atmosphere and one for vacuum.  I know that antimatter reactors with thermal nozzles or plasma nozzles provides some very powerful thrust.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

I managed to accelerate up to 20 000 km/s with EM drive!

I would get higher speed if I took more He3 for tri-alpha

 

w7j6Mc3.jpg

 

QSR + EM + 20 ton of Hydrogen = relativistic DV, astronomical ISP and fairly low thrust.

 

Is there any combination, that allows you to reach >10% speed of light while accelerating at 1g?

Why I can't switch between all possible fuels in wakefield engine using infinite propellant cheat?

Edit: you need to remove all tanks to make this cheat actually work - activated all cheats and now my craft is just engine + probe core + SAS

Is it possible to make magic tank, that can contain any fuel/propellant with adjustable mass?

Such tank would work only when infinite fuel cheat option is on.

All thermal engines doesn't work without radiators with thermal cheat on, while they should.

 

Edited by raxo2222

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On 18/3/2017 at 6:05 PM, FreeThinker said:

In general you are correct: the longer the wavelength, the more efficient it can be transmitted and received but the shorter the effective range. Besides that there are a few curve balls in the receivers. The are several methods of converting beamed power into electric power each with there advantages and disadvantages (like everything in KSPIE). First there it the thermal carnot cycle conversion. The advantage is it can receive power in virtual any wavelength at an average efficiency. The disadvantage is the large mass and volume cost and radiator requirement cost to be efficient. The second method is thermal electric which reduced mass cost at the expense of efficiency. Third is beamed power by photovoltaic, aka Solar cells. There big advantage is they can be significantly lighter then other receiver tapes and can be stored more compactly.  There optimal receivфд is in the near infrared but they can also receive power in the visible spectrum. Forth are the thermal photovoltaics which receive in almost any wavelength and conмert the power into short infrared which is then converted into electric by a photovoltaic cell. It is less efficient the photovoltaic but more efficient then thermal electric and requires large surfaces. Fifth there are rectenna which is one of the most efficient beam to power converter methods and also relatively light. The big caveat it can only be effective at specific bandwidths and the shorter wavelength get only unlocked at higher tech nodes. The Sixt method is the phased array which have similar advantage and disadvantage as rectennas with the added bonus of beeing able to relay or transmit. Besides beam to power conversion. the ability to fold and collect the beamed power also have a big effect on their effectivity. Dishes allow beamed power to be focused for more effective receival or transmitting. Receivers that gave the build-in ability to pivot are able to receiver from a much large angle than those that are fixed and need to be aimed directly at the transmitter. An extreme example is the oversized thermal receiver which is a 2.5 package unfolds into a 100m diameter receiver but it needs to be aimed directly at a receiver. There are many types of receiver each with unique ability which makes them ideal in specific circumstances.

Cool but... what was wrong with my relay setup above? Do I just need to have the "deployable microwave phased array transceiver" in a probe within line of sight of a generator emitting microwaves and click the "deploy receiver" (or whatever it was called, I don't have ksp open at the moment) or does it need additional parts or actually be looking in the general direction of the emitter?

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Posted (edited)

16 hours ago, juanml82 said:

Cool but... what was wrong with my relay setup above? Do I just need to have the "deployable microwave phased array transceiver" in a probe within line of sight of a generator emitting microwaves and click the "deploy receiver" (or whatever it was called, I don't have ksp open at the moment) or does it need additional parts or actually be looking in the general direction of the emitter?

It doesn't look like you have one of them linked for relay.  Sorry if I'm telling you stuff you already know but just looking at your screenshot that seems to be the case.  Shouldn't one of them look like the transceiver on the left ("Is Linked For Relay")?

x3PhP5V.jpg

 

 

Edited by DoubleUU
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1 hour ago, DoubleUU said:

It doesn't look like you have one of them linked for relay.  Sorry if I'm telling you stuff you already know but just looking at your screenshot that seems to be the case.  Shouldn't one of them look like the transceiver on the left ("Is Linked For Relay")?

x3PhP5V.jpg

 

 

How do I "link them for relay"? Is the probe well built? If so, which buttons do I need to press to make them work?

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Posted (edited)

11 minutes ago, juanml82 said:

How do I "link them for relay"? Is the probe well built? If so, which buttons do I need to press to make them work?

Ok, here is the same relay with everything turned off.  To activate it, I would first click on "Link Receiver for Relay" on the left window.  When you do that the other receiver will have a button called "Activate Relay".  I click on that.  Done.  Here are the buttons before turning them on:

Vz3bgpG.jpg

And this is after clicking "Link Receiver for Relay":

JGUKL35.jpg

 

Edited by DoubleUU
Forgot to include image
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On 20-3-2017 at 0:08 PM, Gollum1986 said:

Same Problem. I use the mod in combination with Near Future mods. My Reactors (Near Future Reactor with Interstellar Radiators) are overheating since this patch. Hope it helps ...

 

 

Overheating should only be an issue with Graphene radiator in atmosphere.

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I'm hoping for some help with my power network. I've lofted 6 pebble bed reactors into space, megajoules says they're making ~2MW. But none of them seem to be able to connect eachother. I have the diode array on each sat, so they should be able to transmit, and on each sat I have 2 receivers (which I made sure were on) whose description says they should be able to receive any wavelength. 

 

Transmitter: Diode Laser Array (Beam Producer) set for long infrared

Receivers: Circular Thermophotovoltaic Receivers.

 

 

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