[1.12.x] USI Life Support

[RoverDude]

Well in fairness SpareParts were deprecated ages ago Also I disagree with just making Kerbals eat more as a mechanic

[goldenpsp]

Well in fairness SpareParts were deprecated ages ago Also I disagree with just making Kerbals eat more as a mechanic

Spare parts...machinery. I'm not at a full computer this week and i'm old and senile You get the idea though hopefully.

[ModZero]

1. One would be the idea of a time-based mechanic - basically, the inherent recyclers (the things that provide heat, cooling, scrub CO2, etc.) would have a service life. So the built in ones might last 30 days, but for long journeys you will need more robust equipment (in the form of separate parts). Their efficiency would decay over time, so that giant recycling module you dropped on Duna ten years ago may still work, but not at full capacity).

Yes please, but not the actual parts, please - the idea of having "maintenance", involving more-or-less abstracted swapping of internals is fine, but having to stick/unstick or just kill parts would be a bit annoying. I think you have similar mechanics in MKS already. Maybe something like the CactEye telescope mod (where there are small parts that need replacement) would be OK, but large-ish parts would be a bit too much of a bother.

2. In addition to resources and the mechanic above, where failure is life or death, add a 'happiness' factor, where the Kerbals need more space and more advanced facilities to keep them healthy and happy based on ship duration. The 'fail' penalty for this would be separately configurable - so a Kerbal squished into a lander can for ten years may not die, but they'd be really grouchy. This would be a case where the lander can is good for, say, 30 days. But then you need simple habs to extend into the several months, and for super long term stuff, you will need centrifuges (for orbital stations) as well as medical bays, etc. to keep the Kerbals kicking.

You know KeepFit, right? It has a few rough edges, but I think it did remarkably well, all things considered. Making Kerbals frail was neat.

3. Automatic supply scavenging. If a Kerbal runs out of supplies, they can look not only in their current ship (and it's locked containers) but also other ships within a certain radius. This way, just by air dropping a bunch of supplies, Kerbals will happily EVA to pick them up. UKS already does this, but I'd like it as something built into the core life support mod.

Yes please.

I have a few other ideas, like enforcing temperature tolerances, etc. (so radiators are also need to keep crew alive), etc. but figured these were a good start

Yes - anything that makes Eve more Venus-like ;-)

[Kowgan]

Could not help you without specific tbh

Just want to confirm you were right all along. At full timewarp, my electric charge gain rate was smaller than the spend one, so eventually, my Kerbals got out of electricity.

Thanks for clarifying!

[monstah]

I agree that the beauty of USI is its simplicity. I like point #3 of scavenging, but #1 and #2 are not my cup of tea. That's Earl Grey, either plain or amaretto-flavoured, please?

[RoverDude]

I'm considering breaking out most of the new bits (other than auto-scavenge) into a sub-mod called USI-LSX (Life Support Extended) so we get best of both worlds

[Admac]

I'm enormously in favour of things that require a more complex living situation for long duration habitation. I think Kerbals can live out their infinite lives perfectly happily in space/Eeloo if they have the right situation.

The thing that will make the difference is the interface. It's already getting a bit tough to tell in UKS, but a USILS update might be a great time to flesh out the UI to let us know why Kerbals are about to go on a murderous rampage, or be terrible at making me more machinery.

I think a list with the status /Current state/ ideal state/ modifier would be handy;

LivingSpace: Overcrowded / 12 Kerbals / 8 Kerbals / -50% Productivity & +4.6 rage/sec

Food: Ideal / 3 Food types / 3 food types / +100% Productivity

Temp: Too cold / 4C /15C-25C /-28% Productivity & +25 Slugishness

And maybe add ones for overworked (Modules running/kerbals) workspace crowding, low gravity weakness, communications with home and happiness luxuries like medbay or The Spacebar (Its the one part of a keyboard that gets kerbals drunk! Wheee!)

Parts wearing out is decently covered with the machinery mechanic. Normal parts requiring 5-100 machinery as a LS part would be reasonable. Blowing it away, and adding a new one with KAS, sounds like more of a pain than an exciting adventure.

[J3ansley]

I'm considering breaking out most of the new bits (other than auto-scavenge) into a sub-mod called USI-LSX (Life Support Extended) so we get best of both worlds

I like this idea. I'm with other posters mostly. I'm very against #1, mildly against #2 (I play to keep lots of room so it won't affect me though), and would be happy with #3 but probably won't use it much.

Thanks for all you do.

[goldenpsp]

I

I'm considering breaking out most of the new bits (other than auto-scavenge) into a sub-mod called USI-LSX (Life Support Extended) so we get best of both worlds

As usual sounds like the perfect plan.

[Superfluous J]

Like several others, I like #2 and #3, but dislike #1.

One thing I like about KSP is I don't have to remember a lot. Well, KSP with KAC, at least I don't want to have to keep futzing around with a base to keep it "fresh," and if I want to send up a base 20 years before the crew gets there, I don't want to have to worry about it degenerating over time. However, I love the idea of being forced to give crews larger quarters for longer voyages, and one of the biggest problems with the mod currently is that if you do screw up and run out of food, it can be insanely (and unreasonably) difficult to resupply.

[RoverDude]

Well for #1 it's really a matter of 'add the recycler based on mission duration... 30 days, less than a year, or 'forever'. So a little simpler than folks are giving it credit for (other than the ability to kinda 'extend' a bit beyond this number.

[jwenting]

(Reposting, feedback type stuff)

1. One would be the idea of a time-based mechanic - basically, the inherent recyclers (the things that provide heat, cooling, scrub CO2, etc.) would have a service life. So the built in ones might last 30 days, but for long journeys you will need more robust equipment (in the form of separate parts). Their efficiency would decay over time, so that giant recycling module you dropped on Duna ten years ago may still work, but not at full capacity).

2. In addition to resources and the mechanic above, where failure is life or death, add a 'happiness' factor, where the Kerbals need more space and more advanced facilities to keep them healthy and happy based on ship duration.

3. Automatic supply scavenging. If a Kerbal runs out of supplies, they can look not only in their current ship (and it's locked containers) but also other ships within a certain radius. This way, just by air dropping a bunch of supplies, Kerbals will happily EVA to pick them up. UKS already does this, but I'd like it as something built into the core life support mod.

1) not a good idea, as others have said. Makes long term missions practically impossible. No more manned missions to Eloo etc.

2) could work, especially happiness when in larger living quarters on longer missions. Requires you to think about ship layout more.

3) great idea. Can envision a surface base launching supply canisters up to a station. Now you have to find some way to dock each and every one of them, if that can be automated/faked through a mechanic like that you only have to get them close enough for the system to trigger.

[ModZero]

1) not a good idea, as others have said. Makes long term missions practically impossible. No more manned missions to Eloo etc.

That is just not true. As long as it's either "machinery consumption" or "parts that fit inside KIS containers" it is not. It increases payload size and attention cost, sure. I do believe people would hate having to replace parts that require > 1 Kerbal to move around, tho.

[Nori]

Quick (I think) question. I'm trying to plan out a long mission (maybe 5 years) and just got the greenhouse unlocked.

Am I correct in my calculations that the greenhouse (base level one) basically doubles available supplies? Since 1 supply turns into 1 mulch which turns into 0.5 supplies.

Or am I missing something?

[RoverDude]

Quick (I think) question. I'm trying to plan out a long mission (maybe 5 years) and just got the greenhouse unlocked.

Am I correct in my calculations that the greenhouse (base level one) basically doubles available supplies? Since 1 supply turns into 1 mulch which turns into 0.5 supplies.

Or am I missing something?

There's a bit more math than that, so you'll get more than double (tho it's a long tail, and there's always floating point fun

[Nori]

There's a bit more math than that, so you'll get more than double (tho it's a long tail, and there's always floating point fun

Yeah figured. Since 1 would become .5, then .25, .125 right?

More just wanted confirmation of the rough numbers. If it is more than 2 that's great cuz it'll give me some breathing room.

I actually had a mission setup to go to Jool, but the transfer there was going to be 2+ years (New Horizon moves Jool a bit). So bare minimum was 4 years. My supplies would have been close.. Decided to wait for the science results from another mission to unlock the first greenhouse.

[jwenting]

That is just not true. As long as it's either "machinery consumption" or "parts that fit inside KIS containers" it is not. It increases payload size and attention cost, sure. I do believe people would hate having to replace parts that require > 1 Kerbal to move around, tho.

no, you'd run out of edible supplies if your supplies rotted and your recyclers failed during the mission...

[RoverDude]

no, you'd run out of edible supplies if your supplies rotted and your recyclers failed during the mission...

Then you'd want something sized to go to Eeloo or (really) something with an effectively indefinite duty cycle, instead of something lighter and cheaper that will need to be replaced in five years.

[monstah]

Quick (I think) question. I'm trying to plan out a long mission (maybe 5 years) and just got the greenhouse unlocked.

Am I correct in my calculations that the greenhouse (base level one) basically doubles available supplies? Since 1 supply turns into 1 mulch which turns into 0.5 supplies.

Or am I missing something?

There's a bit more math than that, so you'll get more than double (tho it's a long tail, and there's always floating point fun

Yeah figured. Since 1 would become .5, then .25, .125 right?

More just wanted confirmation of the rough numbers. If it is more than 2 that's great cuz it'll give me some breathing room.

I actually had a mission setup to go to Jool, but the transfer there was going to be 2+ years (New Horizon moves Jool a bit). So bare minimum was 4 years. My supplies would have been close.. Decided to wait for the science results from another mission to unlock the first greenhouse.

I'm lost on your math here, guys. 1+0.5+0.25+0.125+... = 2, no greater or less than. Floating point roundups are a diferente thing, but shouldn't be significant.

[Admac]

Exactly, 50% recycle rate works out to an asymptote approaching 199.99999...% which = 200% of initial supplies, and the 90% recycle rate of the Aeroponics/Kerbitat is the same but for 1000% duration on green house mode, and then an order of magnitude more for fertilizer. The loss-less nature of fertilizer though means it makes sense to bring 100 kilos of supplies and 5 tons of fertilizer, which seems counter intuitive at first.

One thing I do wish USILS did is a 'Supplies Remaining' with math. Since it looks like it just divides current supplies by the number of kerbals. Seeing how long it will last with different greenhouses, and levels of supplies/ fertilizer would be a very handy tool in the VAB, and make it easier to see who REALLY needs a supply run.

Also for your 4 year Jool Mission;

It seems unlikely you'll get an immediate return window, and unless your are willing to burn a lot more DV, you might be there for an extra few years waiting on that window, so plan closer to 8 IMO. or use kerbal alarm clock to figure out your exact departure date.

Edited August 20, 2015 by Admac

[remotec4]

My search-fu doesn't seem to be that great... Has someone made smaller radial containers for this? Just getting back into KSP after a long hiatus. That was what I liked about Tac was the abundance of small containers you could tuck in places. I really like Roverdude's middle ground on this and would like to give it a try. Thanks.

[goldenpsp]

My search-fu doesn't seem to be that great... Has someone made smaller radial containers for this? Just getting back into KSP after a long hiatus. That was what I liked about Tac was the abundance of small containers you could tuck in places. I really like Roverdude's middle ground on this and would like to give it a try. Thanks.

there are packs that can be radially attached

[remotec4]

there are packs that can be radially attached

Sorry, not at a computer to download anything yet... Packs included in this mod, or a different mod? Making a list. Thanks for the reply.

[goldenpsp]

Sorry, not at a computer to download anything yet... Packs included in this mod, or a different mod? Making a list. Thanks for the reply.

Included in this mod.

[remotec4]

Included in this mod.

Awesome. Thanks guys.