Lagrange points

[ftunk70]

Hi all!

I am not suggesting N-body physics. I suggest adding five new spheres of influence per (bigger) celestial object in the game, one for each Lagrange point of the body. At least for Kerbin, Eve, Jool, and Mun. Some new SOIs should be near trivial to implement?

It would open up nice possibilities for new contract types, space stations, refueling stations, asteroid parking areas, and what nots.

Obviously, the Duna-Ike system is not a good candidate, and both the Dres and Eeloo are too close to Jool to have any stable Lagrange points. And perhaps Kerbin is too close to Eve for stable L4/L5 as well?

Edited May 27, 2015 by ftunk70

[Unheld]

Although Lagrange points or adding "planets" (SOIs) are in the "not to suggest"-list, I find this idea somewhat intriguing.

So before anybody closes this thread, maybe it could be moved into the "mod request" section?

Maybe this idea is worth trying out?

Using SOI, a Lagrange point could maybe realised as a rather small SOI with a weak gravitational pull. I think one would need this weak pull for orbits guaranteeing that an object stays inside this SOI and doesn't drift outside.

Those Lagrange point SOIs should maybe be visible in the tracking station.

I don't know however if it is possible for modders to prescribe the orbit for these SOIs or if they are computed from the orbital mechanics of the game?

Edited May 27, 2015 by Unheld

[maltesh]

This suggestion gets brought up pretty much every time Lagrange points get mentioned. However, phantom spheres of influence would not even remotely accurately model the shapes of the gravity gradients around lagrange points. You get weird, elongated kidney-shaped gradients around L4 and L5, and the unstable points of L1, L2, and L3 are even more complicated.

[arkie87]

This suggestion gets brought up pretty much every time Lagrange points get mentioned. However, phantom spheres of influence would not even remotely accurately model the shapes of the gravity gradients around lagrange points. You get weird, elongated kidney-shaped gradients around L4 and L5, and the unstable points of L1, L2, and L3 are even more complicated.

Even if they did, the main problem is the need for a new patch-conics solver, since the lagrange points/SoI's themselves dont follow the normal patched conics solver (their orbits follow planets around the sun, but they, themselves, do not orbit the planet in a normal manner). And if you are making a new patch-conics solver, then you dont need to simulate lagrange points with SoI's (you can directly simulate them).

Edited May 27, 2015 by arkie87

[Raptor9]

While I would like to set up some Kerbin-Mun or Kerbin-Minmus outposts, the problem I see in a patched conics setup is how to enter or exit them without requiring huge shifts in velocity or having a dramatic orbit shift.

[arkie87]

While I would like to set up some Kerbin-Mun or Kerbin-Minmus outposts, the problem I see in a patched conics setup is how to enter or exit them without requiring huge shifts in velocity or having a dramatic orbit shift.

That is also true. They are less effective in a patch-conics framework since more deltaV is required to enter them.

[StevieC]

Maybe instead of a full-blown SoI for every lagrange point, Squad could limit it to just the L4 and L5 points (the "Trojan" points 60° ahead of and behind a planet or moon's position in orbit) since those are the only two that self-stabilize, and if an object in the L4 or L5 SoI reaches a mass greater than say, 1% of the body it's sharing the orbit with, it gets put on a collision course? It'd be a decent way to provide stable places to "park" spacecraft

[peachoftree]

I think that the Principia mod (WIP) includes Lagrange points if anyone is interested.

link: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/68502-WIP-Principia-N-Body-Gravitation-and-Better-Integrators-for-Kerbal-Space-Program

[Ryu Gemini]

Honestly, N-body physics isn't like it has too much trouble. 

They really could implement it, just with some limitations. 

First being, have only the closest planet be counted when you are close enough to be in the "space near ____" biome instead of "space far above ____." 

Naturally, if you are in an atmosphere (or otherwise in a situation that switches you to max 4x time warp) it would only look at the closest body too. 

And you can have an option that simply disables it so that it behaves like it does now. 

 

Of course, the N-body stuff would ONLY be applied to things like spacecraft and randomly generated asteroids that are in suitable location to follow the above limitations.  It would not be applied to planets, moons, or anything else with a preset orbit and path, and those things would simply continue as they are in their pre-defined orbits.