[WIP][1.8.x] SSTULabs - Low Part Count Solutions (Orbiters, Landers, Lifters) - Dev Thread [11-18-18]

[SpaceBadger007]

3 hours ago, thomash said:

Great mission and pictorial SpaceBadger.  Now I will have to do something similar .  I like your use of the Dragon & trunk.  I just wish it had a better IVA.  Can I ask where you got the launch pad light towers?

I've been looking all over for them.

Thx. 

Thanks! The towers are from the floodlight mod using kerbal konstructs mod, and all the other stuff is from sxt's ksc ++

EDIT: whoops didnt relise that floodlight was already posted

Edited January 6, 2017 by SpaceBadger007

[JeeF]

Have anyone witnessed a bug where when trying to attach a SSTU fuel tank to any other part, the fuel tank doesn't attach, jitters like crazy and causes a game crash?

Never seen anything like this before, seems to be only affecting fuel tanks. I only have RSS and TweakScale installed.

 

Edit: Removing TweakScale fixed the problem. Shame, I consider TweakScale a must.

Edited January 8, 2017 by JeeF

[Pappystein]

3 hours ago, JeeF said:

Have anyone witnessed a bug where when trying to attach a SSTU fuel tank to any other part, the fuel tank doesn't attach, jitters like crazy and causes a game crash?

Never seen anything like this before, seems to be only affecting fuel tanks. I only have RSS and TweakScale installed.

 

Edit: Removing TweakScale fixed the problem. Shame, I consider TweakScale a must.

I had the same problem.  However TweakScale did not trigger it (as I have TweakScale installed as well.)  It was KAS and or KIS.   I deleted both at the same time so I do not know which.

[The-Bean]

I had the same issue, after installing the latest Community Resource Pack it worked fine for me: https://github.com/BobPalmer/CommunityResourcePack/releases

[acolangelo]

Haven’t seen this discussed here, and not sure how feasible it is, but have you considered a “densified” containers type (for LOX, specifically), a la Falcon 9/Heavy? Potentially could work similarly to zero-boiloff (consumes resources), but allows more fuel to be loaded than standard containers.

[tater]

12 hours ago, JeeF said:

Have anyone witnessed a bug where when trying to attach a SSTU fuel tank to any other part, the fuel tank doesn't attach, jitters like crazy and causes a game crash?

Never seen anything like this before, seems to be only affecting fuel tanks. I only have RSS and TweakScale installed.

 

Edit: Removing TweakScale fixed the problem. Shame, I consider TweakScale a must.

Given the scaling ability in SSTU, I'd expect Tweakscale to be mutually exclusive as it's trying to do something similar to the parts. 

[Theysen]

2 hours ago, acolangelo said:

Haven’t seen this discussed here, and not sure how feasible it is, but have you considered a “densified” containers type (for LOX, specifically), a la Falcon 9/Heavy? Potentially could work similarly to zero-boiloff (consumes resources), but allows more fuel to be loaded than standard containers.

Since stock SSTU utilizes the liquid fuel and oxidizer ratios I wouldn't see any use for it. Liquid hydrogen / liquid oxygen applications don't use densified fuels as their propellants are super lightweight to start with. Falcon cools its propellants further just to get a little more performance out of what it uses. Also you'd either need this resource defined in the CRP and thus needing to have all engines patched to use the new resources. Or do you want to just make the tanks have more volume and leave the dry mass the same? I think it's a little trickier than that to have a good solution.

Edited January 8, 2017 by Theysen

[Pappystein]

3 hours ago, Theysen said:

Since stock SSTU utilizes the liquid fuel and oxidizer ratios I wouldn't see any use for it. Liquid hydrogen / liquid oxygen applications don't use densified fuels as their propellants are super lightweight to start with. Falcon cools its propellants further just to get a little more performance out of what it uses. Also you'd either need this resource defined in the CRP and thus needing to have all engines patched to use the new resources. Or do you want to just make the tanks have more volume and leave the dry mass the same? I think it's a little trickier than that to have a good solution.

@acolangelo   I will follow up with the following.  Densified fuel = MORE FUEL not a new ratio.  That being said, the discussions I have had with @Shadowmage re tank capacities tell me there isn't much left in RW volume you can add.  Lowering the temperature of RP-1 would only give you a tiny fraction more.  Further, lowering your LOX temperature would see an even smaller incremental increase in Fuel capacity.   The important thing here to note is...   Using Densified fuel does not change your burn ratio.  it however CAN change the ratio of fuel to Oxidizer in the tanks themselves.

  A Key thing to ask is WHY it was important for SpaceX to densify their fuel.   AKA did someone screw up their LOX to RP-1 fuel ratios? (and the answer is YES they did!)

  Knowing a ***TINY*** bit about coding, I can see a LOT of work for a very limited use feature.   Since SSTU tanks already conform to the "standardized" fuel ratios, there is no need to densify the fuel. Had SpaceX done a better job managing/estimating their LOX boil off they probably wouldn't be trying to cram more fuel in.   But that is just my opinion.

PS before anyone jumps on the "you hate SpaceX bandwagon" please note I think SpaceX is a large perccentage of the future for the US in space... maybe even BIGGER than NASA itself.

Edited January 8, 2017 by Pappystein
minor grammer fixs

[cadillac]

On 8/1/2017 at 3:54 AM, JeeF said:

Have anyone witnessed a bug where when trying to attach a SSTU fuel tank to any other part, the fuel tank doesn't attach, jitters like crazy and causes a game crash?

Never seen anything like this before, seems to be only affecting fuel tanks. I only have RSS and TweakScale installed.

 

Edit: Removing TweakScale fixed the problem. Shame, I consider TweakScale a must.

 

On 8/1/2017 at 7:45 AM, Pappystein said:

I had the same problem.  However TweakScale did not trigger it (as I have TweakScale installed as well.)  It was KAS and or KIS.   I deleted both at the same time so I do not know which.

 

On 8/1/2017 at 8:05 AM, The-Bean said:

I had the same issue, after installing the latest Community Resource Pack it worked fine for me: https://github.com/BobPalmer/CommunityResourcePack/releases

I am new to this mod, but after hearing Bob Fitch mention it I wanted to take a look, and I like what I see.

However I too have this problem, I do not have Tweakscale installed, I tried without KIS and KAS, I have the latest version of CRP and still no joy. I can not get fueltanks to attach correctly. Shame would like to get to know this mod better.

[tater]

@cadillac, what other mods are you running? I have not seen this on my pretty vanilla SSTU install.

[cadillac]

2 hours ago, tater said:

@cadillac, what other mods are you running? I have not seen this on my pretty vanilla SSTU install.

The list is long. I have not tested on vanilla. Will try and uninstall what I have, and reinstall one at a time, to see which is causing trouble.

EDIT: Just tested a reinstall, completely vanilla. Still no luck is there anything about installing this mod I am missing, Anything in the settings I am not getting. Forgot CRP, now it works. Now comes the fun part, reinstalling mods one by one to see which one makes the trouble.

For info I am running KSP 1.2.2.

EDIT EDIT: Just finished reinstalling my old mods. And I am at a loss, now it seems to work as it should.

Nonetheless, Thanks for the help.

Edited January 11, 2017 by cadillac

[tater]

Glad I could be of assistance. 

[Pappystein]

2 hours ago, cadillac said:

The list is long. I have not tested on vanilla. Will try and uninstall what I have, and reinstall one at a time, to see which is causing trouble.

EDIT: Just tested a reinstall, completely vanilla. Still no luck is there anything about installing this mod I am missing, Anything in the settings I am not getting. Forgot CRP, now it works. Now comes the fun part, reinstalling mods one by one to see which one makes the trouble.

For info I am running KSP 1.2.2.

EDIT EDIT: Just finished reinstalling my old mods. And I am at a loss, now it seems to work as it should.

Nonetheless, Thanks for the help.

 

Ahh I HATE when that happens.   Not always but generally that means one of your dependencies were not up to date.  When I was running CKAN I had that problem all the time.   Since I have started manually adding  individual root folders for each mod, it has mostly gone away.

I will state what mods I was using when I had the issue:

SSTU, Bluedog_DB, Blizzy's Toolbar, AquilaEnterprises (advanced tweakables on/off button), ASET props pack, Coatl ProbesPlus!, CCK/CRP, CTT, Contract reward modifier, Deployable Engines, DMagic (Orbital Science, Utilites, CAPCOM, Contract Reward Modfier, and Science Animatem,)  Firespitter, FTMN_New, HeatControl, HideEmptyTechnodes, Hyperedit, Kerbodine+ (partial mod.) KSPRescuePodFix, KSPParachuteFix, KSPWheel, ManeuverNodeEvovlved, MechJeb2 (latest dev version as of last night.) Mk2Solar Batteries, NavHUD, PorkjetStockOverhaul, RadialStackSeperator, RealChute, RLA_Stockalike, SafeChute, SCANSAT, Bobcat's Soviet Engines, StageRecovery, Tweakscale.

I have recently tried the place one mod at a time TS method. for this issue with no luck.   SSTU OR  Bluedog_DB alone with Stock and KIS/KAS would reproduce the issue.   That was on a clean install.

Edited January 11, 2017 by Pappystein
readability of last sentance

[Pappystein]

So I am playing in Sandbox right now to develop my new refueling station.   I am using almost exclusively SSTU parts (I have a Stock Coupla, an RCS tank and some early unlock Solar panels) as the command point for the initial launch as all I am launching is a string of HUBs.

I found a SSTU Solar panel that has no attachment node and does not attach well to the station parts.  ST-GEN-DSP-ISS.   I know this is part of the ISS-MST 3 dimensional mast solar blanket, but am wondering if the part can be re-purposed for other uses as well.    I am thinking as a Side attach of a scaled down version for the DOS-PWR in lieu or in conjunction with the Top attach array.  It would only be 2 dimensional like any side attached Solar arrays to the DOS family but it would give a potential bump in energy production from the DOS-PWR.  

Question.  Would it be possible to have it and other Solar panels as unlocks for DOS-PWR?   The Top hat array is useful but thankfully never goes below the core station part after deployment, thus allowing the possibility of additional arrays.

[Shadowmage]

41 minutes ago, Pappystein said:

I found a SSTU Solar panel that has no attachment node and does not attach well to the station parts.  ST-GEN-DSP-ISS.

Because it is intended to be surface mounted onto trusses .  Is it not surface attaching properly for you?  (it should still -work- fine when put onto the DOS/COS/etc modules, though obviously might look a bit out of place)

-- on a side note, if you want to file a bug report about the lack of attach node, that is something that I can/should be able to clean up for the next release.  While that part is intended mostly for surface attaching, I can see where node-attaching might be useful for some builds / precision alignment on some parts.
 

41 minutes ago, Pappystein said:

I am thinking as a Side attach of a scaled down version

I will not be scaling the solar panels in the foreseeable future.  You are, of course, free to do so on your own for your own games, all of the functions needed for it exist already in the plugins/modules.  (Check the existing configs for examples, or possibly poke @JoseEduardo as he has played around with the StationCore and solar panel stuff quite a bit and probably knows more about how to set some of it up than I do at this point; you might even be able to talk him into adding more options to the PWR module as part of his station-expansion packs)

Also -- that ISS panel simply won't work on the DOS-PWR module; the PWR module only has a single solar panel mount point on the top, and the ISS panel will not fit appropriately in that position (it would look very strange / asymmetrical, hanging far off of one side when folded up).

 

43 minutes ago, Pappystein said:

Would it be possible to have it and other Solar panels as unlocks for DOS-PWR?

Yes and no. 

Yes it is possible to add more solar panel options to the StationCore parts -- simply define the solar panel model defs, and add them to the part config.  (See info above...)

The problem in this case is lack of appropriate models for alternate options; that part has very special constraints for what solar panels would be viable options (only a single mounting point on the top of the module).  The only other models that I currently have that would 'fit' are the MAX multi-axis panels, and they are all far smaller/lower power output than the existing DOS-T panel being used.  Technically it could include dual side-mounted solar options as well, but that is not the intention of the part; see below.

There is also the point of that part (the DOS-PWR module) being modeled after a very specific proposed Russian DOS segment module for the ISS, the NEM module ( http://www.russianspaceweb.com/nem.html ); that is the sole reason that the DOS-PWR part/model/module exists, for the mounting of that solar panel.  I have never had any intention of adding other panel options for it, and originally had it so that the solar panel couldn't even be enabled/disabled.

 

If you are looking for secondary/supplemental/alternate panels to go on the side of the PWR module, well, that is what the stand-alone solar panel parts are included for.   You are free to use the stand-alone solar panel parts and attach them to the module using standard KSP surface attach and lego mechanics for whatever use or look that you desire (e.g. I cannot possibly accommodate everyone's customization desires in a single part/module/set of configs, thankfully KSP still allows options for those times using standard construction methods).

 

 

On Sunday, January 08, 2017 at 8:51 AM, tater said:

Given the scaling ability in SSTU, I'd expect Tweakscale to be mutually exclusive as it's trying to do something similar to the parts. 

Indeed, TS should not be needed (or used) with SSTU parts.  Having it installed -shouldn't- create any problems, but it shouldn't be needed specifically for SSTU either (and adding it to SSTU parts that include scaling is just asking for problems). 

If simply having TS installed -does- cause problems... that would point towards some incorrect patches in one of the mods being used (or some other low-level plugin-code incompatibility/conflict).  If anyone can confirm that TS is causing problems with SSTU parts by simply being installed, please let me know and I'll do some further testing to see if I can track down what/where the problem is.

 

 

Development on SSTU has been a bit slow as of late -- I've been quite busy working on finishing up the KSPWheels system and working towards re-introducing the Kerbal Foundries mod (yay tracks!).  Probably have a couple of weeks worth of work left to do on it, or rather will likely be busy working on it for a couple of more weeks.  Things are looking pretty good though... wheels are quite usable, and the UI/UX end of it has vastly improved over the last week.  Am aiming/hoping to push out the initial KF release sometime over the weekend, but still quite a bit left to do after that initial release (more UI/UX work, reintroducing some features from the old KF plugins).

All of this work with wheels will pave the way for (and be used in) the upcoming BaseCore, ProbeCore, RoverCore, and reworked LanderCore series of parts.  I know its not that exciting at the moment... but it will be a bit down the road

Will also try and take a bit of time this weekend to push an updated SSTU release -- mostly it will consist of updating CRP to the latest, but will also contain a few other minor fixes and balance updates that I've done in the past couple weeks.  Will try and sneak in some time to look at/fix up the PartUpgrade handling for the EngineCluster module as well.  No guarantees though as it is entirely dependent on me having extra time after finishing up the wheels stuff.

[Pappystein]

15 minutes ago, Shadowmage said:

Because it is intended to be surface mounted onto trusses .  Is it not surface attaching properly for you?  (it should still -work- fine when put onto the DOS/COS/etc modules, though obviously might look a bit out of place)

-- on a side note, if you want to file a bug report about the lack of attach node, that is something that I can/should be able to clean up for the next release.  While that part is intended mostly for surface attaching, I can see where node-attaching might be useful for some builds / precision alignment on some parts.

 

Thanks, I have posted for the above as well as the other POST style Solar panels.  as I state in the Git, this is to allow centering a post on the top or bottom of any of your space station models.  IE I can install a blanket on the DOS-PWR's top node and not have to worry about it being too wide for my fueling station.

THANKS!

[Alex38]

Hi everyone, 

first of, I want to say that this is an amazing mod, so much possibilities ! so thanks for all the work you've done to make it as fantastic as it is right now  

I got a question on the soyuz spacecraft, I'm using RSS in 1.2.2 and once in orbit, the soyuz engine isn't working at all, only the RCS, is that a bug or am I doing something wrong (mod conflict or something like that maybe ? ) 

any ideas ?  Thanks a lot 

[Akira_R]

14 minutes ago, Alex38 said:

Hi everyone, 

first of, I want to say that this is an amazing mod, so much possibilities ! so thanks for all the work you've done to make it as fantastic as it is right now  

I got a question on the soyuz spacecraft, I'm using RSS in 1.2.2 and once in orbit, the soyuz engine isn't working at all, only the RCS, is that a bug or am I doing something wrong (mod conflict or something like that maybe ? ) 

any ideas ?  Thanks a lot 

Are you using, Real Fuels, RP-0, RO? Sounds to me like a borked MM patch from another mod causing problems than a bug with SSTU.

[Alex38]

1 minute ago, Akira_R said:

Are you using, Real Fuels, RP-0, RO? Sounds to me like a borked MM patch from another mod causing problems than a bug with SSTU.

Yes I'm using Real fuels.. is there a thing I could do to correct that or am I stuck ? I don't know if there is an animation on the soyuz engine, because when I turn it on, nothing open, the engine is activated but doesn't work  

[Shadowmage]

18 minutes ago, Alex38 said:

Yes I'm using Real fuels.. is there a thing I could do to correct that or am I stuck ? I don't know if there is an animation on the soyuz engine, because when I turn it on, nothing open, the engine is activated but doesn't work  

Are you using the full RO setup, or a custom mod-mix for RSS+RF?

(Trying to find out where the patches are coming from so that I can figure out which ones to look at)

Generally though anything RF/RO/RSS related belongs in the RO thread -- I did not write the RO patches, and have little idea how RF/RO/etc function.  Likely the most I'll be able to do is to tell you who else you need to contact to have the problem fixed.... (it could be a bug in SSTU, those do exist, but is far more likely to be a patch problem).

[Alex38]

1 minute ago, Shadowmage said:

Are you using the full RO setup, or a custom mod-mix for RSS+RF?

(Trying to find out where the patches are coming from so that I can figure out which ones to look at)

Generally though anything RF/RO/RSS related belongs in the RO thread -- I did not write the RO patches, and have little idea how RF/RO/etc function.  Likely the most I'll be able to do is to tell you who else you need to contact to have the problem fixed.... (it could be a bug in SSTU, those do exist, but is far more likely to be a patch problem).

I'm using a mix of RSS+RF, as RO isn't compatible with 1.2.2 yet. 

I haven't find any others bugs in SSTU so yeah I don't think that SSTU is the problem..  

 

[Akira_R]

1 hour ago, Alex38 said:

I'm using a mix of RSS+RF, as RO isn't compatible with 1.2.2 yet. 

I haven't find any others bugs in SSTU so yeah I don't think that SSTU is the problem..  

 

If you are going to be playing with part mods and complex mods like RO/RSS/RF etc. I would STRONGLY recommend getting familiar with .cfg set up and Module Manager syntax.

It's really quite straight forward and easy to learn when you get down to it, you don't need to know any programming, and by knowing these things it makes identifying bugs like this and fixing them fairly straight forward.

I don't use RF and so I don't know if they patch part by part or if they are utilizing a batch patch method targeting resources and MODULEs. My guess would be they would have to do it part by part, if that's the case then somewhere in your GameData folder should be a patch specifically for SSTU, it should be easy enough to find it, find where it is targeting the soyuz parts and see what they are doing wrong.

[blowfish]

To my knowledge, RF Stockalike (which is what is presumably being asked about here) has not been set up to work with SSTU.

[Alex38]

1 minute ago, Akira_R said:

If you are going to be playing with part mods and complex mods like RO/RSS/RF etc. I would STRONGLY recommend getting familiar with .cfg set up and Module Manager syntax.

It's really quite straight forward and easy to learn when you get down to it, you don't need to know any programming, and by knowing these things it makes identifying bugs like this and fixing them fairly straight forward.

I don't use RF and so I don't know if they patch part by part or if they are utilizing a batch patch method targeting resources and MODULEs. My guess would be they would have to do it part by part, if that's the case then somewhere in your GameData folder should be a patch specifically for SSTU, it should be easy enough to find it, find where it is targeting the soyuz parts and see what they are doing wrong.

Thanks I'm gonna try to learn it when I got the time  If you have any links in mind, I would appreciate the help  

So I researched into my gamedata, and I have nothing but simple module manager patches (physics and techtree). But in the SSTU folder, I've found three different patches and one of them is "Fuelcrossfeed.cfg" (there is also an "techtree.cfg" and a "CollisonHandlerPatch" but I don't think that they are responsible) what do you think ? 

[Alex38]

2 minutes ago, blowfish said:

To my knowledge, RF Stockalike (which is what is presumably being asked about here) has not been set up to work with SSTU.

Oh.. yes that could explain why.. !  However the RCS is working fine and the soyuz contains aerozyne so why that's only this engine that isn't working...  they are all working fine except for the soyuz spacecraft