[WIP][1.8.x] SSTULabs - Low Part Count Solutions (Orbiters, Landers, Lifters) - Dev Thread [11-18-18]

[pheenix99]

35 minutes ago, Shadowmage said:

Stuff

Fair enough. I suppose I can always just play with those parts in the VAB/Hangar for now and get an idea for how I want my next station to look. I like both the USI and the SSTU style station components (though SSTU is winning since there is a dedicated science lab module among other reasons  ).

[Zaphod12]

6 hours ago, Shadowmage said:

Tweakscale is neither supported nor needed with my parts.  If one of my parts doesn't support scaling, there is usually a darn good reason for it.

Wait, but if Tweakscale isn't required, then how do I, for example, decouple the SLS-like upper stages, since they don't have decouplers and since the custom decoupler only is 1.25m wide?

[Shadowmage]

1 minute ago, Zaphod12 said:

Wait, but if Tweakscale isn't required, then how do I, for example, decouple the SLS-like upper stages, since they don't have decouplers and since the custom decoupler only is 1.25m wide?

The custom decoupler (SSTU-SC-GEN-PDC - Procedural Decoupler) should scale from 0.625m <-> 10m in the default install.

If it is not, then if in sandbox you need to go to your game settings and click the 'apply upgrades in sandbox mode', OR if in career mode you need to unlock the 'fairing diameter upgrade' parts in the tech tree. 
(will be getting custom 'decoupler diameter upgrade' parts in the near future to make that a bit clearer...)

-- On that note, I have no idea why the 'apply upgrades in sandbox mode' is not defaulted to being enabled.  Who would want gimp parts in sandbox mode aside from some specialty testing/challenge scenarios?  Makes far more sense to default it to enabled and let those specialty uses manually disable it.

[helcustom]

Turns out applying upgrades fixes the size issue

Edited October 18, 2016 by helcustom

[Sudragon]

Regarding fairings, this is more what I meant:-

 

If you can see, the engine (Merlin 1D) generates a shroud\fairing but the tank doesn't. This was one of my favoured features, allowing non-SSTU engines and non-diameter matching engines to be installed without leaving gaps in the side of the booster. Have fairings been removed from tanks? (This image was taken in sandbox with all upgrades enabled)

[Temeter]

Yeah, i've seen this as well. Tanks don't seem to generate fairings for the part below them anymore.

[tater]

You can use a petal adapter...

I suppose I haven't noticed this since I no longer use the stock engines at all.

 

[Temeter]

Right, weren't there procedural petal adapters or so?

10 minutes ago, tater said:

I suppose I haven't noticed this since I no longer use the stock engines at all.

There is nothing more nucular than nerteas atomic engines

[tater]

I forgot about those...

The only issue with petal adapters is some z-fighting where they slightly overlap the tank.

Edited October 19, 2016 by tater

[Temeter]

@Shadowmage  You want some help with fixes to your mod? I was playing around with the new RCS effects+audio, and it seems to be fairly straightforward to update the cfg to the new EFFECT module (+ModuleRCSFX).

If you didn't yet do them, then I can make a preliminary pull request for a capsule + rcs block, so you can check the way I've done it (of course did already try it ingame). Then I can do the others if ok.

Edited October 19, 2016 by Temeter

[Shadowmage]

6 hours ago, Sudragon said:

Regarding fairings, this is more what I meant:-

 

If you can see, the engine (Merlin 1D) generates a shroud\fairing but the tank doesn't. This was one of my favoured features, allowing non-SSTU engines and non-diameter matching engines to be installed without leaving gaps in the side of the booster. Have fairings been removed from tanks? (This image was taken in sandbox with all upgrades enabled)

Yes, fairings on tanks were removed.  I never used them (rarely use any non-SSTU engines), and they were a PITA to maintain from a code perspective (read: took a -ton- of time to keep them working, and they broke.. alot, so was having to fix them with every-other-release).  Also, the ISDC (interstage deoupler / fairing) exists for use with any non-SSTU engines (attach engine, toggle the interstage node on the tank, attach ISDC to interstage node).

Was all in the change log....  ( https://github.com/shadowmage45/SSTULabs/releases/tag/0.5.33.126 )  "CHANGE - Remove lower fairing from MFT fuel tanks. Still exists on MUS tanks."

In regards to use with other mods engines -- much easier to convert those engines to use the engine-cluster plugin, or replace their fairings with the SSTU ones through patches.  Same part count, much easier to maintain.  Also, the SSTUNodeFairing is trivial to setup and add to other parts that you would like fairings on (it can even replace the stock engine fairings).  I use this in my personal games all the time for other mods' parts, I've just never had time to cleanup the patch set for public use (is a cobbled together mess from like 8 different mods parts of various tweaks that I use).

On that note -- I would like to start creating patch sets for other mods' engines to engine-cluster-ize them (and adapt their fuel tanks to MFTs/add configurable containers).  Something to think about/work on after the station parts are finished.

 

 

22 minutes ago, Temeter said:

@Shadowmage  You want some help with fixes to your mod? I was playing around with the new RCS effects+audio, and it seems to be fairly straightforward to update the cfg to the new EFFECT module (+ModuleRCSFX).

If you didn't yet do them, then I can make a preliminary pull request for a capsule + rcs block, so you can check the way I've done it (of course did already try it ingame). Then I can do the others if ok.

Sure.  I wasn't even aware there were new RCS effects, so you already have much more information on it than I do   PR's to the SSTULabs repository would work just fine.

Thanks in advance for anything you do submit, any help I can get on this stuff is much appreciated.

[Temeter]

6 minutes ago, Shadowmage said:

Sure.  I wasn't even aware there were new RCS effects, so you already have much more information on it than I do   PR's to the SSTULabs repository would work just fine.

Thanks in advance for anything you do submit, any help I can get on this stuff is much appreciated.

New effects, and also sounds now.

RCS isn't hardcoded anymore, but uses an effect module. Tiny orbital engines also use the module, and it's very nice. Here is a pic (looks better ingame^^):

Spoiler

 

Edited October 19, 2016 by Temeter

[JoseEduardo]

4 minutes ago, Shadowmage said:

In regards to use with other mods engines -- much easier to convert those engines to use the engine-cluster plugin, or replace their fairings with the SSTU ones through patches.  Same part count, much easier to maintain.  Also, the SSTUNodeFairing is trivial to setup and add to other parts that you would like fairings on (it can even replace the stock engine fairings).  I use this in my personal games all the time for other mods' parts, I've just never had time to cleanup the patch set for public use (is a cobbled together mess from like 8 different mods parts of various tweaks that I use).

On that note -- I would like to start creating patch sets for other mods' engines to engine-cluster-ize them (and adapt their fuel tanks to MFTs/add configurable containers).  Something to think about/work on after the station parts are finished.

that reminds me...

btw, I'm thinking about adding some BDB stuff to SSTU, and I already have some patches for Tantares, Kosmos, SDHI and Near Future Solar to be integrated with the new station module, I'm just fixing some stuff and waiting to see if I'm going to add more stuff to it (will be a separate thing from Nova, and I might move the engines from Nova to this new pack)

[RedParadize]

30 minutes ago, Shadowmage said:

Yes, fairings on tanks were removed.  I never used them (rarely use any non-SSTU engines), and they were a PITA to maintain from a code perspective (read: took a -ton- of time to keep them working, and they broke.. alot, so was having to fix them with every-other-release).  Also, the ISDC (interstage deoupler / fairing) exists for use with any non-SSTU engines (attach engine, toggle the interstage node on the tank, attach ISDC to interstage node).

I was, mainly because that way you can have the mount included in the tank and filled with fuel. It was a nice way to reduce volume without sacrificing style. I will have to rework most of my design, I will survive without it I guess.

Edited October 19, 2016 by RedParadize

[Shadowmage]

2 minutes ago, RedParadize said:

I was, mainly because that way mount can be filled with fuel. It was a nice way to reduce volume without sacrificing style. I will survive without it I guess.

You can still use the mounts on the tanks, you'll just have to use the interstage node + ISDC for your fairing (or petal adapter, or stock fairing, or... I'm sure a few other options exist). 

Yes it is one extra part needed... but I'll gladly take that tradeoff in order to not have to constantly fix the tank fairing code.  Also, part count is mattering less than it used to in a stock+SSTU game, so a single extra part (or 3-4 for a large multi-stage craft) isn't as big of a deal as it used to be.

As a bonus to using the ISDC -- you get integrated retro (or ullage) rockets

[tater]

This is sorta off-topic, but someone here (I reread much of the thread last night to no avail) posted some really cool landing legs from another mod... it was maybe @Jimbodiah, or @JoseEduardo (?). A repost or a link to what reply it was would be awesome---there were a few images in the thread with links that no longer work, made it hard to skim for the post.

 

[RedParadize]

8 minutes ago, Shadowmage said:

You can still use the mounts on the tanks, you'll just have to use the interstage node + ISDC for your fairing (or petal adapter, or stock fairing, or... I'm sure a few other options exist). 

Yes it is one extra part needed... but I'll gladly take that tradeoff in order to not have to constantly fix the tank fairing code.  Also, part count is mattering less than it used to in a stock+SSTU game, so a single extra part (or 3-4 for a large multi-stage craft) isn't as big of a deal as it used to be.

As a bonus to using the ISDC -- you get integrated retro (or ullage) rockets

Does the bug where engine would start before being properly separated from petal adapter have been fixed? (I am sure it had been reported at some point, or was it a stock bug?)

Anyway, I will find my way around this. I am just waiting Sigma dimension and various other mod before geting back to kerbal. Still following your progrest tough. Nice stuff as always!

[Jimbodiah]

KerbodynePlus I think you mean. I have a patch to scale them down as they are freaking huge in the mod itself. I've not seen an update for this mod yet to 1.2, but if you want the patch files for a few smaller sizes, let me know.

Edited October 19, 2016 by Jimbodiah

[RedParadize]

On 9/19/2016 at 8:14 PM, RedParadize said:

@tater Are you talking about these? If yes they are from Bonus Eventus.

[tater]

3 minutes ago, RedParadize said:

@tater Are you talking about these? If yes they are from Bonus Eventus.

Doh! I knew if I used @ names I'd forget the exact one I needed!

Yes! That's the one. I got one, though.  so not bad shooting.

6 minutes ago, Jimbodiah said:

KerbodynePlus I think you mean. I have a patch to scale them down as they are freaking huge in the mod itself.

Thx!

Edited October 19, 2016 by tater

[RedParadize]

@tater Hehe, You, Jimbodiah, JoseEduardo and myself must have a good 1/2 of the post of SSTU tread. Excluding Shadowmage of course. Not quite sure if its a good thing!

[Shadowmage]

In general development news:

Working on finishing up the solar panel textures -- blanket panels should look much better with the next release, and the DOS/SM line of panels will all be getting custom shader support for colored specular (though will not have back-light glow; figure those panels are 'rigid' and thick enough to not let light bleed through).

Few more fixes and feature-enhancements for a few parts and modules, mostly external-modding interaction for some of Jose's part setups.  Looks like updating RCS plumes will also be happening this week (thanks @Temeter!).  Couple more part-category updates (fairings moving to 'payload' category, thanks @tater) (should ISDC and/or petal adapter be moved to payload as well?), and I'll be trying to add 'inverted' adapters to most modular parts' adapter selections (need to make up the adapter model definitions... a fair bit of work...).

This all puts me in a pretty good position to start working on the HAB / inflatable parts in earnest next week.  Will likely be starting with the cylindrical inflatable modules (A/B/C) as they are much less controversial in their geometry setup, and downright simple in some regards.  I will be trying to spruce them up a bit so they are not just plain cylinders, but they will still end up being fairly simple parts.

Also going to try and take a bit more time to work on the wheels stuff (so that the SC-E can return, fully functional) -- someone msg'd me an idea that should allow the 'sticky friction' to work out acceptably (if I can get it implemented/working), and bump-stop I'm pretty sure I'm going to implement with colliders.  No clue if I'll get to these this weekend, but need to take some time for it before too long.

[tater]

ISDC seems like a coupling part, no question (not payload). The petal... Dunno, probably payload. Seems like stock has made "aero" more about pure aero issues, since they put their own fairings in payload, as well as every spaceplane cargo bay, and the rocket service bays as well.

[Temeter]

Btw, the orion service module throws an nullref on spawning (in) vab (otherwise only station modules do):

Quote

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at SSTUTools.SSTUSolarPanelDeployable.Start () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
 
(Filename:  Line: -1)

 

[tater]

Landed next to original one. Certainly better than that one compared to the image I posted up thread of the real concept design.

 

And a pretty image of the same:

 

Landing lights are a nice touch on those kerbodyne plus legs (scaled to .35, BTW).

Edited December 19, 2017 by tater