Shadowmage

[WIP][1.3] SSTULabs - Low Part Count Solutions (Orbiters, Landers, Lifters) - Dev Thread [02-05-17]

6576 posts in this topic

8 hours ago, GoldForest said:


Not really a problem, per say, just a... missing feature? I guess you can call it.

There's no problems with either mod, they talk to each other great.

It's just when you have the engine clustered, so say like.... the Saturn V five F-1s. When you have them on one mount and just cluster then, they act like one engine for TCA.

What I'm asking/suggesting is can you make it to where each engine inside the cluster gets TCA controlled.
 

Here's a picture I made, excuse my artistship lol, to represent what I mean. 

 

 


I see what you are referring to now.  And yes, they -are- one engine as far as KSP is concerned, which is why TCA sees them as one engine (single part, with only one ModuleEngines module).  @blowfish has the correct answer below, along with a bit of explanation on why it is not likely to happen.

 

20 hours ago, blowfish said:

I think the expectation with TCA is that different engines will be able to throttle to provide torque, which isn't th case within an engine cluster.  I don't really understand how TCA's code works but my guess is that this would require some (non trivial) changes in both SSTU and TCA.  Best bet for now is probably not to use engine clusters.

Yeah, as TCA works by controlling different ModuleEngines on the craft, and not manipulating the per-transform thrust of any given module (or per gimbal transform), it would be....very difficult.... to get it working on the individual engines' in a cluster. 

I think the only way this could work is if the modules' manipulated the per-transform-thrust split in the engine module in combination with adjusting the main throttle for the module/part.  But I'm unsure how well the stock code would cope with runtime adjustments to the thrust-splitting.

 

Either way, not something that I will be implementing.  If TCA wants to implement it... everything that is needed is available to them, nothing should be needed on this end.

 

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7 hours ago, Shadowmage said:


I see what you are referring to now.  And yes, they -are- one engine as far as KSP is concerned, which is why TCA sees them as one engine (single part, with only one ModuleEngines module).  @blowfish has the correct answer below, along with a bit of explanation on why it is not likely to happen.

 

Yeah, as TCA works by controlling different ModuleEngines on the craft, and not manipulating the per-transform thrust of any given module (or per gimbal transform), it would be....very difficult.... to get it working on the individual engines' in a cluster. 

I think the only way this could work is if the modules' manipulated the per-transform-thrust split in the engine module in combination with adjusting the main throttle for the module/part.  But I'm unsure how well the stock code would cope with runtime adjustments to the thrust-splitting.

 

Either way, not something that I will be implementing.  If TCA wants to implement it... everything that is needed is available to them, nothing should be needed on this end.

 

Oh. Could you provide blank engine cluster mounting plates with the ability to change how many attachment points are on said plate? That's one way to get the engines to multiple using ksps own codes so TAC sees them as different engines.

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2 minutes ago, GoldForest said:

Oh. Could you provide blank engine cluster mounting plates with the ability to change how many attachment points are on said plate? That's one way to get the engines to multiple using ksps own codes so TAC sees them as different engines.

There are other mods that add such plates. What specific use case would demand this particular arrangement aside from perhaps trying to set up something like F9 where 9 fire, then 3, then 1?

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6 hours ago, tater said:

There are other mods that add such plates. What specific use case would demand this particular arrangement aside from perhaps trying to set up something like F9 where 9 fire, then 3, then 1?

Also, If using a part failure mod, then you could have a partial failure.

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Posted (edited)

19 hours ago, Nightside said:

Also, If using a part failure mod, then you could have a partial failure.

That's a legitimate point, but as @Shadowmage said, it's non-trivial to do. For the case where people use such a mod, either that mod needs to do the cluster support, or the players need to not cluster engines, and radially attach them.

Edited by tater
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I have no idea on whether or not this is the right place to ask, but has anyone else had issues with models being completely black? I'm not sure if it is a missing texture thing or not.

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43 minutes ago, DrVonBraun said:

I have no idea on whether or not this is the right place to ask, but has anyone else had issues with models being completely black? I'm not sure if it is a missing texture thing or not.

SSTU models? Never seen this.

OK, what version did you DL? If it is a version from last fall, then the texture sets are separate. The current version(s) have a single SSTU folder within GameData.

 

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Posted (edited)

I am using the 1.3 version.

 rFnMuU4.jpg

I think it is only items with the recoloring system available. Im not sure I have all the files in the right places anymore.

Edited by DrVonBraun

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5 hours ago, DrVonBraun said:

I have no idea on whether or not this is the right place to ask, but has anyone else had issues with models being completely black? I'm not sure if it is a missing texture thing or not.

Your modlist, output.log or KSP.log from the Game Install would be helpful :)
Maybe you can link those up to specify the issue or screenshot your GameData folder!

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8 hours ago, DrVonBraun said:

I am using the 1.3 version.

 

I think it is only items with the recoloring system available. Im not sure I have all the files in the right places anymore.

 

As others have pointed out, you will need to post at least your KSP.log file;  all I can tell from the screenshot is that there is a problem -- I have no way to tell what the problem might be, or what might be causing it (both of which will need to be known in order for a solution to be found).

By posting your log file, it includes your mod-list (so no game-data screenshot needed), and it also tells me your basic graphics/hardware setup so that I can see if there are any problems in that area.

 

From a guess -- I would have to wager that your PC is having problems with the custom shaders.  But I would need more information to even guess at more than that (my next... guesses... would be that you are running DX11, or perhaps really old video card that doesn't support shader-model 3+; none of which was tested or really supported on those shaders)

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52 minutes ago, DrVonBraun said:

Here is my KSP.log file

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5Spk7HvIakhVHVsTU9kMkRvMEU/view?usp=sharing

 

MY GPU is not that old, maybe a couple years. 

You have a bunch of stuff in C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Kerbal Space Program\Plugins\ .  That should be empty.

Also I highly recommend not modding you Steam install.  Steam's auto-updates combined with mods can easily result in a broken install and unusable saves.  Best to copy KSP outside of Steam and mod it there.

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57 minutes ago, DrVonBraun said:

Here is my KSP.log file

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5Spk7HvIakhVHVsTU9kMkRvMEU/view?usp=sharing

 

MY GPU is not that old, maybe a couple years. 

As @blowfish stated, you have a ton of stuff in KerbalSpaceProgram/Plugins  -- that folder should be empty  (it looks like you installed the SSTU source code into that folder?).  That alone could be causing problems, as there are a whole bunch of Unity .dll's and scripts in there that should not be loaded by KSP.  This has also caused it to try and load at least 4 copies of the SSTUTools.dll, which is an additional potential cause for your problems.

Try removing the contents of that Plugins folder, and retrying things.  Please let me know if the issue persists, and I can investigate a bit more.

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I've removed the content from the plugin folder but the engines are still blacked out.

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13 minutes ago, DrVonBraun said:

I've removed the content from the plugin folder but the engines are still blacked out.

Would you be able to post an updated KSP.log file?  Hopefully without all of the various plugin-folder-related errors, it should be easier to spot any other potential problem areas.

Thanks, and hopefully we can get this fixed up and working for you soon (just need to find what is going on first).

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9 minutes ago, DrVonBraun said:

Thanks, looking over things now, will let you know what I find (if anything).

Seeing as how it is a shader related problem, there should, in theory, be something simple that is preventing the shader from working on your system/setup/install (whether it is hardware/software/configuration related though is... unknown).

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Hmm...

@DrVonBraun  have you tried running KSP without the -force-opengl flag?  

OpenGL mode should no longer be needed now that x64 is a realistic option; in earlier KSP versions it was used to reduce memory footprint, but 64-bit mostly eliminated the memory concerns for most reasonably modded installs.  Oh, you also get higher FPS with DirectX compared to OpenGL mode (at least I always have).

 

Still looking through the rest of the log, but I'm not seeing anything that would point to errors.  Your hardware should be adequate (gfx supports shader model 5), so I could not really think of what else could be causing it other than OpenGL mode (note:  the custom shaders I use were compiled for DirectX9 only for use on Windows; openGL is only supported on OSX and Linux builds; though I would have thought that there would have been errors when loading/assigning the shaders to the parts or materials if it was unsupported).

Its already scheduled to do some testing of the custom shaders using openGL (to fix some OSX related problems), but with my current work (and life) schedule, I probably won't get around do doing any testing on it for a couple of weeks.


Please let me know if removing the -force-opengl flag fixes the problem;  that will at least let me know where I need to begin investigating for proper solutions, and I can add all of the information to an issue ticket to keep it from getting lost.

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removing the openGL tag did it. I forgot I was using it. Thanks for the help!

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34 minutes ago, DrVonBraun said:

removing the openGL tag did it. I forgot I was using it. Thanks for the help!

Thanks for having the patience to work with me to get the problem figured out :)

 

I've opened an issue ticket on the OpenGL compatibility, and will be looking into it for the next full release (unknown ETA).   https://github.com/shadowmage45/SSTULabs/issues/477

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Thanks for taking the time to help me out and keep making the awesome content!

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2 hours ago, Shadowmage said:

Thanks for having the patience to work with me to get the problem figured out :)

 

I've opened an issue ticket on the OpenGL compatibility, and will be looking into it for the next full release (unknown ETA).   https://github.com/shadowmage45/SSTULabs/issues/477

Thanks for having the patience to deal with goofy users like us :D .

BTW, I'll be happy to test any OS X specific issues as soon as I can get to them if you let me know.

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OSX can run things other than Safari ?

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7 hours ago, Jimbodiah said:

OSX can run things other than Safari ?

Chrome, too.

I also have Nethack going in a vt102 window :wink: .

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Just a quick question about the MUS Split Tank. I do not see a selection to change the actual height of this part. There's a slider for V.Scale, but not the actual height. Or I'm getting blind in my old age and just can't see it. Either way, you can throw stones at me or gummy bears (I prefer gummy bears since I quit smoking, lol)

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