Pak

[1.3] Cormorant Aeronology

1326 posts in this topic

Welp... looks like I am rebuilding my space shuttle to use these parts!

This is exactly what I've been waiting for since Mk3 showed up.

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I was think about using this today with FAR when I realised there will be a minor hiccup with the flap part. It need values that actually correspond to the size and shape of the part when using FAR. the method is detailed here. If you would get the correct values for FAR I would greatly appreciate it. If you have question on the process I would consult ferram or just post in his thread. Thanks for making an awesome mod :)

Edited by Svm420

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Just downloaded, can't wait to try it out. Very cool! :cool:

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Could I persuade you to switch to InterstellarFuelSwitch instead?

I definitely considered it. I use IFS in my own saves as well. I went with FS for the wider market of it as most people with mods will already have Firespitter core and MM. I looked into IFS and saw that it had exceptions written in to allow FS without overlapping. So you can still use both. Let me know if you're seeing something different. It may still change in the future depending on how mods recover from the 1.1 jump, but for now I'd like to keep it as low impact and as close to stock as possible.

Very nice, but I'd like to see some engines for the OMS.

I'm starting to agree with you. There's a lot of great engine mods already out there. RLA Stockalike's Nimbus fits the bill pretty well. The engine bells are a little big, but still look great. Another good option is Sarbian's Space Shuttle Engines for OMS and pretty much everything else.

Personally I take the hit on realism and use LV-909's (with Ven's Stock Revamp) with structural panels and fuel lines to keep my main stages from draining the shuttle's OMS fuel.

All that said though. I have some ideas for an OMS engine. If I can get them to work I'll put one out in the future

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There is also ShadowWorks Stockalike SLS and More. I even mentioned this mod to him for ideas on his nose cone and OMS. It includes parts for SLS and STS which is what I use. When I get a more successful flight (Still in the design phase), I'll edit a picture or 2 in.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/128353-1-0-4-ShadowWorks-Stockalike-SLS-and-More-v1-1-7-25-2015

It isn't in any particular order, but this is the shuttle I made using these parts and ShadowWorks.

http://imgur.com/a/Hvb84

Edited by Sgt.Shutesie
Adding Imgur Link

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There is also ShadowWorks Stockalike SLS and More. I even mentioned this mod to him for ideas on his nose cone and OMS. It includes parts for SLS and STS which is what I use. When I get a more successful flight (Still in the design phase), I'll edit a picture or 2 in.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/128353-1-0-4-ShadowWorks-Stockalike-SLS-and-More-v1-1-7-25-2015

It isn't in any particular order, but this is the shuttle I made using these parts and ShadowWorks.

http://imgur.com/a/Hvb84

Looks great, Shutesie. Thanks for the pictures.

I didn't know ShadowWorks had shuttle parts in there. Lookin' good

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Mod Update - 9/25/2015

v 1.01 changes

  • Added CA-OMS Pods to Control

  • Added FSfuelSwitcher to Shuttle Lifting Bodies and OMS Pods (Firespitter and Module Manager now required)
  • LFO and Monoprop now available for both
  • Added lift to CA-Nosecone
  • Moved CoL of CA-Lifting Body back to compensate for nosecone lift
  • Added 3 Engine Attach nodes to Shuttle Lifting bodies

I'll be adding those into an optional add-on for the KSP 1.1 update and might move the Mini-shuttle size into that as well to keep the core mod part count down to the essentials. I have the 2x and 4x models ready so I'll toss those into an update earlier if I can.

Thanks for all the continued support and suggestions. Looking forward to getting the last few bits into place for a full release with Unity 5

Wonderful! I'd give you more rep but the forum won't let me.

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There is also ShadowWorks Stockalike SLS and More... When I get a more successful flight (Still in the design phase), I'll edit a picture or 2 in.

Shuttles are notoriously uncontrollable in KSP. Anyway, I made a (mostly)functional shuttle with modified parts from Ven's. I re-sized the tanks based on AB Launchers, and tweaked some values for the SSMEs and SRBS. It is a little touchy to fly, but what shuttle in KSP isn't?

I've been intending to take screenshots and post it, but I haven't yet. When I do, I can also give the modified configs I did if anyone wants.

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Shuttles are notoriously uncontrollable in KSP. Anyway, I made a (mostly)functional shuttle with modified parts from Ven's. I re-sized the tanks based on AB Launchers, and tweaked some values for the SSMEs and SRBS. It is a little touchy to fly, but what shuttle in KSP isn't?

I've been intending to take screenshots and post it, but I haven't yet. When I do, I can also give the modified configs I did if anyone wants.

In testing (throwing the mk3 stock airliner under the shuttle and flying it above the KSC) I can land it about 30% of the time intact and around 50% in bits and 20% no return.

In flight of the actual shuttle (I put a unity module on a station again from ShadowWorks) I came up short on the runway and became confetti on the mountains, but the crew survived (thank you mk3 shuttle cockpit crash tolerance).

My issue is that even before I get near dense atmosphere, I am flipping and either loosing my wings or the ability to use them since I'm going backwards. Turning on fine controls and having a bit of monoprop helps though. I need to figure out the best angles of attack though. So wish me luck when I do more testing.

Edited by Sgt.Shutesie
Mistake in Paragraph 1

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I was think about using this today with FAR when I realised there will be a minor hiccup with the flap part. It need values that actually correspond to the size and shape of the part when using FAR. the method is detailed here. If you would get the correct values for FAR I would greatly appreciate it. If you have question on the process I would consult ferram or just post in his thread. Thanks for making an awesome mod :)

Hey not sure if my post was missed or not So I am quoting it hoping the OP sees it.

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Ok, I've been fiddling with the updated version of this mod for a few days (I actually got my first shuttle into orbit since 0.25!), and I have a few thoughts.

One- this is the best stock-alike Shuttle mod I've seen for KSP, no offense intended to the KSO.

Two- Attachment Nodes. I really like the current three-node set up, but for those of us who are making Buran-type parasite shuttles, or, as I have done, a single large engine on a shorter shuttle, there kind of needs to be a central attachment node, so that 2.5 meter engines don't clip through the upper part of the shuttle. It would also help any third-party mods for these parts attach squarely.

Three- I've been having some trouble with the landings, similar to what the other posters noted, but I've recovered my Kerbs alive far more times than I would have otherwise, thanks to that nosecone being the first thing into the ground.

Also, I've been trying to attach turbojet engines on the rear RCS pod, to maintain level flight after re-entry, but it seems to result in the ship going in spirals. Any advice?

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I was looking at my shuttle today and comparing it to the real one. I remembered that the shuttle bay doors were radiators during the mission. Is there anyway to replicate that?

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Hey not sure if my post was missed or not So I am quoting it hoping the OP sees it.

I saw, Thanks. I don't have a ton of time or motivation to battle with cfgs before 1.1 comes and potentially breaks everything. It's definitely on my list of things to do though. I'm back to using FAR so I'll keep testing it. In the meantime though it works alright with stock values in the latest versions.

For the landing and re-entry problems. Shuttle re-entry can be tricky to learn, but looking at how the real shuttles did it actually works pretty well. Here's a few key bits to consider whether you're using my parts, or your own NASA-like creations

  • Hold a pitch of around 35 degrees during descent with RCS assist
  • At around 20,000m or about 700m/s velocity start to pitch down to level flight
  • If you're over the mountains, pitch down for a direct landing, if you're over KSC, start a wide turn around
  • Final approach for landing should be pitched down at least 25 degrees aiming for a point before the start of the runway to maintain speed
  • Flare up just above the ground (hopefully the runway)
  • The magic number for your vertical speed is under 10m/s. Horizontal speed will largely depend on the weight of your shuttle, but 60-90m/s will get you a safe landing

I did a lot of testing with the vertical landing speeds because I thought it was my part mod's fault. Turns out it's just how things work.

For your average NASA looking shuttle without a ton of struts on everything, anything over 10/ms will result in major parts falling off of the MK3 cargo bay. This varies a bit based on your construction of course but I found it happens pretty consistently starting at 11m/s. Granted that's a pretty hard landing, I'm not implying it's a bug or something.

It takes quite a bit of practice, but keep at it! Once you get your procedures down for your specific shuttle you'll be making flawless landings every time.

Two- Attachment Nodes. I really like the current three-node set up, but for those of us who are making Buran-type parasite shuttles, or, as I have done, a single large engine on a shorter shuttle, there kind of needs to be a central attachment node, so that 2.5 meter engines don't clip through the upper part of the shuttle. It would also help any third-party mods for these parts attach squarely.

This is one of those "can't please everybody deals" if there was a stock way to add node toggling I'd be all about it, but I don't really want to add duplicates of the same parts with different node set-ups. I could change the mini-shuttle length back to the old single node if you think that would add value to the part.

Congrats on the working shuttle design. It really is a great feeling getting these things work.

For your re-entry flippy issues, level flight is not a friendly place for a shuttle to be. Try an entry similar to the suggestions above and see if it works out for you.

Edited by Pak

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I think you swapped vertical/horizontal speed in that explanation. Vertical speed is how fast you descend and contact the ground; should be less than 10 m/s. Horizontal speed is how fast you travel across the ground; at landing, your 60 to 90 m/s is a good initial guide, but it varies hugely with design.

Oh, and I really love these parts! :D

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I think you can improve the nose model a Bit... but in general... It' should be stock... :P

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This is one of those "can't please everybody deals" if there was a stock way to add node toggling I'd be all about it, but I don't really want to add duplicates of the same parts with different node set-ups. I could change the mini-shuttle length back to the old single node if you think that would add value to the part.

What I was trying to ask (Sorry, I'm apparently all too good at being illegible lately:blush:) was whether you would consider adding a fourth engine attachment node, centralized, in addition to the three other nodes?

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What I was trying to ask (Sorry, I'm apparently all too good at being illegible lately:blush:) was whether you would consider adding a fourth engine attachment node, centralized, in addition to the three other nodes?

Ohh I gotcha.

Next time I'm updating I'll take a look at it. If it's not too janky I'll do that or rearrange things so the top node is centralized

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This looks really nice but I do have one burning question (pun intended): Does this also function as a heatshield?

Ignore that question. I gave it a try and it's no heatshield. Too bad. :(

This mod has potential but it's not quite there yet. I like the nosecone. It fits the Mk3 Cockpit like a glove. The lifting body itself also fits nicely but I do not like the rear section. I must rather have just the 'heatshield' and make my own choice for the tail.

And there is also a minor bug. When the parts are moved with the translation tool they misalign and refuse to snap back in their proper places. I've also got the distinct feeling the lifting body patch is a tiny bit to narrow.

Until then this mod will go into the maybe pile.

Edited by Tex_NL

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so,will this work fine with FAR?

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so,will this work fine with FAR?

All but the flap.

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Really great mod :) I love the shuttle I've made with it...it flies great! I was just wondering if anyone else was getting a problem where the fuselage flap would behave inverted? I think I've got it the right way up, so the curvature works, but it moves the opposite direction to my input and the other control surfaces.

Have some pics :3

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Edited by MrMeeb
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Pak, I love these parts and it gave me a reason to build an STS once again and these parts fit the bill perfectly. Just one question for the OMS pods, though. I see a "gap" so to speak when I go to mount an engine onto these pods. Is it a node miscalculation or is it me? I "think" this has been addressed, but these parts should have abalator on them to fit the bill as it's look intends them to be. Other than that, obviously excellent job on these and thank you for your hard work to get the shuttle of our dreams into space and back again in one piece.

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