Nertea

[1.3.0] Kerbal Atomics: fancy nuclear engines! (June 19)

632 posts in this topic

2 hours ago, smjjames said:

KerbalatomicsNFE: Does this turn the engines into reactors? I'm confused.

 

It's experimental and disabled by default. Enable at own risk.

2 hours ago, smjjames said:

kerbalatomicsenginelight: Is it okay if this is removed? No idea what it's for.

 

Deletes engine light modules if they're present. These engines contain their own engine lighting

2 hours ago, smjjames said:

various NTR conversions from LF to LH2: Are the nuke engines generally more efficient with LH2? Would also be nice (if possible) for a switch between LF and LH2 modes. Nvm, they aren't, at least the lightbulb engine isn't, or doesn't seem to be and needs more fuel for the deltaV which it gets with LF.

They need more fuel volume, yes. In a case where you could use something as dense as LF in an NTR, you would get much lower Isp, maybe 500s or so. 

1 hour ago, GregroxMun said:

EDIT: I have found a design for a closed cycle gas core NTR that doesn't look like the NASA study.

Yeesss, I think the NASA one is butt-ugly :P.

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Nertea, I stand before thee, for thou have won the hearts of thy fellow Kerbs.

As such, thou shalt be canonised, and ascended to the pantheon of legends, amongst Jedediah and Valentina, to stand henceforth by their side.

 

PRAISED BE NERTEA, GODLY MODDER!

 

(No, seriously now, is anyone allowed to make this many awesome mods expecting nothing in return? I'm sure this qualifies you as an amazing person!)

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The stuff doesn't actually appear in the stock tree. The tanks do, but none of the engines at all.

They are set to experimental rocketry.

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Congratulations on moving this to release! Guess you need another sig link now...

Edited by Starbuckminsterfullerton

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Fancy is right! Hot dang, can't wait to try these out.

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On ‎23‎.‎01‎.‎2016 at 11:27 PM, Nertea said:

NSWR is in the works and would probably arrive with the OC GCNTR, I'll probably make it the mod's only 3.75m engine when I do. I haven't settled on a style/visualization yet, but it looks like most of the detail will be in the cooling systems for the nozzle

Generally, this mod should mesh perfectly with CryoEngines (if that's what you mean by LH2 chemicals) in balance and function. 

As I expected. And yeah, that nozzle's gonna need VERY powerful cooling.

As to the lower end of the spectrum, are you planning any air-augmented or airbreathering nuclear engines, and are you going to attempt an RTG-based Poodle thruster a la Porkjet's CANDL? Or at least a config to hook it up with Atomics?

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5 hours ago, DDE said:

Or at least a config to hook it up with Atomics?

MM patch for this should already be included. Balance, however, may not be great. We didn't ever test those engines when we were dev testing the mod. As I play with both, I'll look into it.

 

@Nertea Re NSWR: I'd argue out of scope of this mod, but as no serious nuclear rocket mod adds an open-cycle engine, I guess it can be made in scope if you really want. Ultimately I'd recommend that it be a toggleable option, as some will want it, some wont.

@Temstar made a fascinating post about the LV-N, radiation, and shielding with respect to the vanilla game. His concepts were based on the assumption that the LV-N (and thus by extension other NTRs) did not have built in radiation shielding (which does not appear to be the intent here) but some of it is still good takeaway for handling NSWR. The following data points are taken from his concept:

  • Kerbals, being able to endure long term space habitation with no ill effects, are inherently more resistant to radiation than humans (as is their equipment)
  • Kerbals (and more sensitive equipment like probe cores) are still subject to temporary adverse effects when exposed to high quantities of radiation
  • When exposed, they contract radiation sickness. They act like tourists effectively, unable to perform any duties, and glow
  • As soon as no longer exposed, they immediately return to normal

EDIT: Sierra decided to interpret NSWR incorrectly as Not Safe When Running when it should have been Nuclear Salt Water Rocket.

Edited by Captain Sierra

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5 hours ago, Captain Sierra said:

EDIT: Sierra decided to interpret NSWR incorrectly as Not Safe When Running when it should have been Nuclear Salt Water Rocket.

Not Safe When Running is, I think, a good way to describe a Nuclear Salt Water Rocket.  

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2 minutes ago, billkerbinsky said:

Not Safe When Running is, I think, a good way to describe a Nuclear Salt Water Rocket.  

Hahaha very true ... hot radioactive bathwater doesnt sound like it makes for good PR for the KSC.

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These look great! I had been looking for some nice big NTRs for some time, but I didn't realize just how badly I wanted them until Nertea published some :)

The Liberator in particular seems very very good. Having Isp that high without sacrificing thrust more than makes up for the low volume of LH2 and the need for refrigeration. I am looking forward to seeing the patch to convert these to LF (just as a matter of personal preference) so that I can see what kind of performance is balanced against the stock Nerv.

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Is there a way to enable crossfeed for the radial tanks? Right now they don't work like the stock RCS tanks for example and need fuel lines to draw out of the radials. They are modeled so nicely with all the pipes and cables, the fuel lines kind of destroy the immersion. Or am I missing something, I just installed out of KerbalStuff on a fresh install for testing! 
 

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48 minutes ago, Theysen said:

Is there a way to enable crossfeed for the radial tanks? Right now they don't work like the stock RCS tanks for example and need fuel lines to draw out of the radials. They are modeled so nicely with all the pipes and cables, the fuel lines kind of destroy the immersion. Or am I missing something, I just installed out of KerbalStuff on a fresh install for testing! 
 

There is a mod called CrossFeedEnabler. While part of NFT, LH2 tanks included this feature by default. Currently, I suspect the feature is still there, but will need to be enabled (@Nertea correct me if I'm wrong here). This can be done by installing the CrossFeedEnabler plugin .... and thats it.

 

1 hour ago, PocketBrotector said:

These look great! I had been looking for some nice big NTRs for some time, but I didn't realize just how badly I wanted them until Nertea published some :)

The Liberator in particular seems very very good. Having Isp that high without sacrificing thrust more than makes up for the low volume of LH2 and the need for refrigeration. I am looking forward to seeing the patch to convert these to LF (just as a matter of personal preference) so that I can see what kind of performance is balanced against the stock Nerv.

Because it often proves too difficult the other way, the stock nerv has been rebalanced against it. The LV-N has been rebalanced as an entry-level NTR (and uses LH2) so the Liberator will be vastly superior. The Liberator is good for very large ships with lots of fuel and high dV requirements.

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1 hour ago, Captain Sierra said:

There is a mod called CrossFeedEnabler. While part of NFT, LH2 tanks included this feature by default. Currently, I suspect the feature is still there, but will need to be enabled (@Nertea correct me if I'm wrong here). This can be done by installing the CrossFeedEnabler plugin .... and thats it.

CrossFeedEnabler, might still work, but requires a mod called CrossFeedEnabler, that is no longer supported.

However, there is a new stock module called ModuleToggleCrossfeed which will do the same thing without having to install yet another mod.

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1 hour ago, Nightside said:

CrossFeedEnabler, might still work, but requires a mod called CrossFeedEnabler, that is no longer supported.

However, there is a new stock module called ModuleToggleCrossfeed which will do the same thing without having to install yet another mod.

Does it actually do that? I thought it just allowed you to turn on and off crossfeed for an object, not specifically enable crossfeed for radial tanks. 

16 hours ago, DDE said:

As I expected. And yeah, that nozzle's gonna need VERY powerful cooling.

As to the lower end of the spectrum, are you planning any air-augmented or airbreathering nuclear engines, and are you going to attempt an RTG-based Poodle thruster a la Porkjet's CANDL? Or at least a config to hook it up with Atomics?

I don't intend to do teeny ones at this moment. My goal isn't really to replicate Atomic Age, I just want to make engines that I think are cool. I suspect any air breathing engines would go in Mk4, which does have a nuclear ramjet planned.

This is my WIP open cycle gas core rocket. I'm pretty happy with most of it, but the extensible magnetic nozzle isn't the nicest looking thing I've ever made.

y50xElh.png

On 1/25/2016 at 6:10 PM, Starbuckminsterfullerton said:

Congratulations on moving this to release! Guess you need another sig link now...

I ran out of space! I'm going to have to reconfigure them all :(

On 1/24/2016 at 9:17 PM, tater said:

The stuff doesn't actually appear in the stock tree. The tanks do, but none of the engines at all.

They are set to experimental rocketry.

Yes I'll probably have to patch that when I have time.

 

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17 minutes ago, Nertea said:

This is my WIP open cycle gas core rocket. I'm pretty happy with most of it, but the extensible magnetic nozzle isn't the nicest looking thing I've ever made.

You're moving fast! Love the fins/reactor chamber, can definitely tell which concept images you've referenced. 

Nozzle looks ok to me, although I haven't seen the animation; it's hard to make a magnetic that isn't ugly. Would an open cycle NTR even use a magnetic nozzle though? I've never read anything that says either way. I guess if it got hot enough to ionize the hydrogen...

Perhaps a traditional bell with the magnetic coils mounted to the outside would look better?

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1 hour ago, Nertea said:

This is my WIP open cycle gas core rocket. I'm pretty happy with most of it, but the extensible magnetic nozzle isn't the nicest looking thing I've ever made.

I think you've got too many magnet rings and the shape and size isn't quite right. It looks like the magnets are where you want the nozzle to be, but the magnetic field around them is where it'll actually be and that can be differently shaped to the physical nozzle. You could try taking out the 2nd and 4th rings, shuffling the spacing between the rings a bit, and reshape the whole thing to be more conic and a little wider. Possibly replace the little cooled nozzle throat with another ring as well, it goes against the idea that the plasma is too hot to contain with a physical nozzle.

Edited by hoojiwana

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Heh, this was actually made before any of the current NTR models, hence the roughness in some areas. Open cycle power levels start to get into the region of needing really crazy heat dissipation, which means a huge nozzle or a magnetic one. Was hoping to combine both with this cascading approach, but maybe I will save this for the NSWR, as that can look pretty sci-fi-ey.

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suggestion: make the patches in /KerbalAtomics/Patches/NTR optional to prevent people discovering that their Jool probe has a tank with tons of LiquidFuel but a nuclear engine which suddenly needs LqdHydrogen without prior notice. :)

Edited by speedwaystar
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Another space tug. Probably would assemble this in orbit out of 2-3 segments, but I'm a lazy man. Interesting launches to say the least.

DD98372B529F5D0B25D278CB96265449BC29F389

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So is the LF patch gonna be in the same release as the horrifying doom engine open cycle? 

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Really great mod there.Definitely downloading this.

I`m leaving a sugestion here, more like a wish though,how about one of these https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Pluto in this mod.(maybe some open and closed cycle)

 Thanks.

Just a quick edit.I have some questions.
-Thouse engines will work like the near future reactors?
-looking foward to some fusion stuff?
 

Edited by Space_Wyvern
Do not make another post

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A thought struck me the other day, as I was aerobraking during a return from the Mun. Going engine first into the outer atmosphere and watching the heat level rise, I thought 'I have a great big tank of liquid hydrogen, why can't I run that through engine to cool it?

Could this be incorporated into cryo- and atomic- engines? Open cycle cooling. 

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On 2/6/2016 at 10:14 PM, Sudragon said:

A thought struck me the other day, as I was aerobraking during a return from the Mun. Going engine first into the outer atmosphere and watching the heat level rise, I thought 'I have a great big tank of liquid hydrogen, why can't I run that through engine to cool it?

Could this be incorporated into cryo- and atomic- engines? Open cycle cooling. 

That is a bit beyond scope. Still, operating an engine is basically open cycle cooling :P .

On 2/6/2016 at 6:26 PM, Space_Wyvern said:

I`m leaving a sugestion here, more like a wish though,how about one of these https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Pluto in this mod.(maybe some open and closed cycle)

Haha, not really planned at the moment. Prefer space stuff.

On 2/6/2016 at 6:26 PM, Space_Wyvern said:

Just a quick edit.I have some questions.
-Thouse engines will work like the near future reactors?
-looking foward to some fusion stuff?

Yes they will work with NF Electrical that way, I am not ready to enable that patch yet though. 

On 1/31/2016 at 5:17 PM, Tangle said:

So is the LF patch gonna be in the same release as the horrifying doom engine open cycle? 

I was hoping so, but then I got really busy.

Questions: What do people use for their nuclear engine mods these days? I want to make sure the hydrogen patches cover the right engines, the last time I went and looked for all the current nuke mods was a while ago. I'm also buffing the mass of most of the NTRs in LH2 mode so that they will be more attractive. I intended to do this originally, but it didn't sneak into the release. Things like LV-N going to a mass of 2.5 instead of 3. 

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