Fix the aero model

[322997am]

So now that we are almost 1 version after the new aero model I'm seeing some major flaws with it and how those flaws are ruining some creations. Firstly the game should calculate that a closed box is a closed box and parts in the box should not have drag. Second of all a kerbal should be able to stand in a cargo bay or even on a plane and not get blown away because the shoes should have enough grip to stand on the plane. And finally a rover or any vehicle should not have to be tied downwind a docking port in a cargo bay/ box to not slide around and get stuffed to the back of the plane and glitch out. Will this fix the aero model?

[Wjolcz]

The biggest issue I have with the new aero model is the inverted nosecones acting as if they were facing up.

[Sir_Robert]

I'm quite sure cargo in a plane has to be tied down in real life as well

[SpaceplaneAddict]

2 hours ago, Sir_Robert said:

I'm quite sure cargo in a plane has to be tied down in real life as well

Exactly

 

11 hours ago, Veeltch said:

The biggest issue I have with the new aero model is the inverted nosecones acting as if they were facing up.

Guilty

On February 7, 2016 at 1:59 PM, 322997am said:

So now that we are almost 1 version after the new aero model I'm seeing some major flaws with it and how those flaws are ruining some creations. Firstly the game should calculate that a closed box is a closed box and parts in the box should not have drag. Second of all a kerbal should be able to stand in a cargo bay or even on a plane and not get blown away because the shoes should have enough grip to stand on the plane. And finally a rover or any vehicle should not have to be tied downwind a docking port in a cargo bay/ box to not slide around and get stuffed to the back of the plane and glitch out. Will this fix the aero model?

1. Full agreement

2. Agree w/ first half 

3. We have a part called, "The Claw"

[XrayLima]

I'm pretty sure a large part of the Devnote last week covered a lot of your last issue.

[pandaman]

I agree with all you said, but I don't think things needing to be fixed down in loading bays etc is an issue with the 'aero' system as such.  That needs something like an automated or toggled 'strap load' function when loading bays are closed.

[Wjolcz]

On 2/9/2016 at 4:22 PM, pandaman said:

I agree with all you said, but I don't think things needing to be fixed down in loading bays etc is an issue with the 'aero' system as such.  That needs something like an automated or toggled 'strap load' function when loading bays are closed.

Or KAS.

[322997am]

On February 9, 2016 at 3:24 AM, Sir_Robert said:

I'm quite sure cargo in a plane has to be tied down in real life as well

But it won't go towards the back instantly and get squished there

[Pds314]

Basically, FAR.

I mean, FAR has all the features you're talking about.

Edited February 11, 2016 by Pds314

[Hodo]

On 2/9/2016 at 3:24 AM, Sir_Robert said:

I'm quite sure cargo in a plane has to be tied down in real life as well

They do... and they dont.

 

Depending on the cargo you can get away with not attaching the cargo to the craft if it is stable enough and wont shift during a simple mundane flight.   The problem in KSP is really quite complex.

First we dont have the fine controls a real aircraft actually has to keep a plane pretty stable in flight.  Very few real life aircraft break the 2g line during flight.   That is almost a regular occurrence in KSP. 

 

Secondly, the game engine for some reason sees if an object is attached at one point the otherpoints of the cargo no longer have a physical interaction with the main body.  This means if you attach a long rover into a cargobay you will have the back of it falling through the bottom of the aircraft it is docked with.   If you dont dock them together then the rover will float off during physics acceleration.   I dont know about you, but I dont plan on waiting 287days to the next maneuver node for orbital insertion of Jool.

 

If Squad was to fix anything it would be this last thing.

[Sovek]

13 hours ago, Pds314 said:

Basically, FAR.

I mean, FAR has all the features you're talking about.

This...

[pincushionman]

I'm going to agree with pandaman above and point out that the aero model isn't the issue here, as the only "closed" parts we have are service bays, cargo bays, and fairings, which already exclude their contents from drag. You can't make any other "closed" shapes without FAR.

It's the friction interaction between objects that's the problem here. In the animation below it should be obvious the drag is so low as to be negligible, and yet Bill slides off like it's an ice rink.

As XrayLima also mentioned, the other week in Devnotes they noted a lot of work going into dealing with inter-craft interaction of this nature (I believe the activity described was driving a rover into another vessel then flying it to the island aerodrome), which SOUNDS like it should be an edge case, but as everybody here knows, we do it all the time.

And Hodo, your Jool transfer with your rover is a whole 'nother issue. First of all, space, so no drag. Second, during non-physics timewarp the vessels don't interact at all (let alone this glitchy stuff), so they just pass through one another like ghosts and just follow their own orbits unless you dock 'em.

Edited February 13, 2016 by pincushionman