XpertKerbalKSP

Kerbal EDU

15 posts in this topic

Hello, Fellow Kerbonauts!

I just heard of the application Kerbal EDU and it seemed really interesting. Of course, I do have few questions for those of you who have kerbal EDU or is a developer of the game. But what I would like to ask is how is Kerbal EDU different from normal KSP? Are there new systems? Is sandbox removed?

Thanks!

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3 hours ago, XpertKerbalKSP said:

But what I would like to ask is how is Kerbal EDU different from normal KSP?

The most major difference that I am aware of is that while normal KSP is cheerfully DRM-free, KerbalEDU has horrible oppressive DRM that trusts you no further than it can throw you (hint: it can't throw you).

In my more cynical moments I believe that any other additional features in KerbalEDU are just smokescreen to justify the inclusion of the DRM.

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20 hours ago, Newnard said:

The most major difference that I am aware of is that while normal KSP is cheerfully DRM-free, KerbalEDU has horrible oppressive DRM that trusts you no further than it can throw you (hint: it can't throw you).

In my more cynical moments I believe that any other additional features in KerbalEDU are just smokescreen to justify the inclusion of the DRM.

Piracy is incredibly rampant in educational settings, it's understandable wanting to prevent the easy copying that regular KSP allows. And that system has not made its way into the core game, so I think your cynicism might be misplaced.

*    *    *

I have a copy of KerbalEDU. It has a few additional features for visualizing forces and logging data, plus a scenario editor of sorts. Most of the additional functionality can be had for free in the form of mods, so for a home user I wouldn't recommend it.

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7 hours ago, Red Iron Crown said:

Piracy is incredibly rampant in educational settings, it's understandable wanting to prevent the easy copying that regular KSP allows. And that system has not made its way into the core game, so I think your cynicism might be misplaced.

The desire to make revenue from a product that they have worked so hard on for years is completely understandable.

In my humble opinion, that is not sufficient excuse for allowing a third party to implement DRM in an otherwise wonderful software product. See http://www.defectivebydesign.org/ for more information.

My cynicism was directed at KerbalEDU, not Squad. So hopefully it was well placed, but I apologize anyway.

7 hours ago, Red Iron Crown said:

I have a copy of KerbalEDU. It has a few additional features for visualizing forces and logging data, plus a scenario editor of sorts. Most of the additional functionality can be had for free in the form of mods, so for a home user I wouldn't recommend it.

It's the scenario editor that is fascinating to me, and the reason I wish I could try it out. I imagine all sorts of interesting applications, from the obvious teaching applications that it was designed for, to creation and distribution of puzzles and challenges for people to solve, etc. Alas, while I have been known to occasionally purchase DRM-encumbered software (if the DRM is gently implemented, and the benefit of the software is great) this isn't a situation that I can justify to myself. I do plan to try some similar activities at some point using something like hyperedit to set up scenarios and then just packaging up the .sfs files. But I imagine a bit more engineering than that went into the KerbalEDU stuff, and it's just sad to waste that engineering by contaminating it with DRM. ;-)

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On 25.3.2016 at 0:22 PM, Newnard said:

In my humble opinion, that is not sufficient excuse for allowing a third party to implement DRM in an otherwise wonderful software product. See http://www.defectivebydesign.org/ for more information.

DRM in KerbalEdu is not implemented by TeacherGaming or any other third party. It is required and has been implemented by Squad.

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5 hours ago, MarkZero said:

DRM in KerbalEdu is not implemented by TeacherGaming or any other third party. It is required and has been implemented by Squad.

Thank you for that information. It makes me sad.

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Required by Squad. In practice the way it goes is we get a build of KSP with the DRM in it from Squad and then put the edu features on top of that.

Edited by MarkZero

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On 3/26/2016 at 1:58 PM, Red Iron Crown said:

Piracy is incredibly rampant in educational settings, it's understandable wanting to prevent the easy copying that regular KSP allows.

If some of the functionality is available on the regular KSP for free via mods and the regular KSP allows you to copy it freely... Wouldn't the educators (or whoever is purchasing the game) will try to just copy the regular version?

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One hopes not, and let's leave it at that. 

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I find it hard to believe that a company that has a pronounced opposition to DRM would require it in one of their products. 

Could you explain further?

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I'm afraid I don't have much of a further explanation at this time. I have just been happy that they allow us to make and sell the edu version and have not criticized them too much for putting DRM in it. KSP is Squad's game anyways, if they wish for the edu version to have DRM then DRM it shall have, however weird it is considering the base game doesn't have any. And it is not that oppressive a DRM anyways, all it does is compare your license key and mac address to those saved on the server to check that you are not exceeding the number of computers you are allowed to run it on. It does have its problems of course, for example when mac addresses change or users remove the installation without running the uninstaller so that the server doesn't know they've uninstalled, or when an overzealous firewall blocks it from connecting to the server, but they can usually be dealt with easily enough when the customer contacts us for support.

That said, we are going to ask Squad if they could remove or at least change it for our upcoming 1.1 update for KerbalEdu.

Edited by MarkZero

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Any way, I think @XpertKerbalKSP question was answered (regardless of the DRM reasoning) by @Red Iron Crown

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"passive" survey (teacher/student <=> ksp) (also eventually & may be aside the licensing stuff for computer software in school wich is pretty specific usually), sound fair when you care about teaching problematics (school departments founding and all ... & etc.) and specific schedules to improve KerbalEdu.

... simple ... when you think about it.

most students and teacher won't spend time filling surveys. They usually tend to be busy with many others stuff, administrative stuff is already pretty heavy teaching side in many place, ... prolly that ...

 

(@MarkZero does  teachers get a modified version than studient with statitiscal kind of view and all ? usually they appreciate thoose kind of stuff + it might be interesting both for you and them if they use a "Master" KerbalEdu while student use a "client" KerbalEdu in intranet teachers may have the ability to share thoose stat as well eventually (like transfering a light logtxtfile out of the intranet), just a thought anyway ...)

(+ "as far as i know" many schools use intranet for "dedicated teaching softwares" with physics (usb or whatever) key & etc.)

 

Edited by WinkAllKerb''

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