ShotgunNinja

[1.2.2] Kerbalism v1.2.2

3999 posts in this topic

5 minutes ago, lordcirth said:

In stock, once you unlock the Lab, the game is over.  You can finish the tech tree in a single launch.  Adding life support at least makes this cost a bit more, but I like that the Lab's functionality is changed.  That being said, I haven't gotten that far in recent versions of Kerbalism yet, waiting for FAR.  I don't know how hard it is.

you are right , maybe I feel hard because ETT and other mods makes me need much more Science Data ,if I plan to unlock the whole tech tree,I need to find about 200K Science Data, that is a long time:(

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21 hours ago, Gotmachine said:

@John Nowak Do you have the latest Kerbalism version ? I had such issues a few versions ago but it hasn't happened to me since some time. Also, if this happen again, could you check if you still see the in shadow/in sunlight icon in the kerbalism panel being updated when it should ? If you have a reproducible case, it would be nice to send your save to @ShotgunNinja. Note that the issue is referenced here on github.

Afraid so: 1.2.0, according to changelog.md.

I'll keep an eye on the shadow icon. 

There's a couple of other possible sources of trouble here: the solar panels in question aren't stock, and my impression is that this is a very difficult bug to reproduce, since the problem is probably related to timewarp while unloaded. I'd honestly rather have the ability to say "Do not deplete electric charge in background" either globally or at the vessel level; there's far too many complications here. 

In a perfect world, Kerbalism would recognize that a vessel in a stable orbit will have a predictable light/dark cycle, and would base background depletion rates on that. But that's obviously a difficult approach. 

 

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@John Nowak I don't think that the issue is related to the algorithm calculating solar panel input, but more likely this is a corner-case bug in the background processing system. When I had the issue, other features like signal and converters were also acting strange, this is why I asked you to check for the shadow icon : if its not updated anymore, this mean that the background processing has stopped working correctly (possibly along other features like temperature evaluation and signal occlusion).

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Kinda off topic but it's just a personal issue I have been having. How do you produce nitrogen for habitats and space stations. Is there a module or someway to make nitrogen that I stupidly just can't figure out? Or do we just have to keep re supplying our bases and stations with nitrogen?

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17 hours ago, 影之瑒 said:

you are right , maybe I feel hard because ETT and other mods makes me need much more Science Data ,if I plan to unlock the whole tech tree,I need to find about 200K Science Data, that is a long time:(

Yeah, if you have other mods, it can get quite hard.  Feel free to turn the Science gains up to 150% in the difficulty settings, or better yet, install Dmagic Orbital Science.  More experiments = more fun + more science.

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3 hours ago, Gotmachine said:

@John Nowak I don't think that the issue is related to the algorithm calculating solar panel input, but more likely this is a corner-case bug in the background processing system. 

Right. It's possible that the algorithm in Kerbalism works fine, but if the game passes it invalid information, well, gigo and all that. If the background simulation takes samples instead of interpolating, then it's pretty much inevitable: you're going to have someone, by luck, hit on a combination of acceleration speeds that makes the background simulation treat the vessel as always in shadow. As I said, I'm not convinced there's an easy solution, which is why I'd suggest an "opt out" option. 

Anyway, I've had this happen with a few vessels, one in a sun-synchronous orbit, so it was never in shadow. Another is a space station using a MOLLE solar panel: it rotates the panels in two axes, so it should return full power regardless of the orientation of the station. The station doesn't have parts which put the cells in shadow when they're tracking. I've seen it happen twice in my last session: one time, the station was shown to be in shadow at the time the low power alert was made; the other time it was shown to be in sunlight. 

 

 

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12 hours ago, John Nowak said:

If the background simulation takes samples instead of interpolating, then it's pretty much inevitable: you're going to have someone, by luck, hit on a combination of acceleration speeds that makes the background simulation treat the vessel as always in shadow.

The issue you describe has been fixed a long time ago (see the discussion following this post) :

On 27/05/2016 at 6:59 AM, ShotgunNinja said:

There was a problem with the sun visibility being evalued at discrete point in times at high timewarps, so anything that used sun visibility was in sunlight/shadow at random at extreme timewarps (fixed in next version by doing a poor man integration of sun visibility at extreme timewarps).

 

13 hours ago, John Nowak said:

Another is a space station using a MOLLE solar panel

There are parts in MOLE ("SPF-6 Solar Array" and "Solar Battery Module") that use non-stock custom modules (WBIModuleMirroredSolarPanel and WBIDualAxisSolarArray), I don't think those are supported by Kerbalism and they may indeed have issues. You can raise an issue on github or ask for support here, for now either avoid using these or edit their config to replace the custom modules with stock ones.

13 hours ago, John Nowak said:

The station doesn't have parts which put the cells in shadow when they're tracking

I'm not 100 % sure about this one, but I think that possible occlusion from the vessel itself isn't accounted for. The algorithm only check total occlusion from bodies and output efficiency related to panel orientation and if applicable, atmosphere density.

13 hours ago, John Nowak said:

I've seen it happen twice in my last session: one time, the station was shown to be in shadow at the time the low power alert was made; the other time it was shown to be in sunlight. 

But if you continue timewarping (without switching to the vessel, so it stays unloaded), is the sunlight/shadow icon updated when it should or is it stuck forever ?

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1 hour ago, Gotmachine said:

The issue you describe has been fixed a long time ago (see the discussion following this post) :

Ah, excellent. Thanks, I missed that.

1 hour ago, Gotmachine said:

There are parts in MOLE ("SPF-6 Solar Array" and "Solar Battery Module") that use non-stock custom modules (WBIModuleMirroredSolarPanel and WBIDualAxisSolarArray), I don't think those are supported by Kerbalism and they may indeed have issues. You can raise an issue on github or ask for support here, for now either avoid using these or edit their config to replace the custom modules with stock ones.

That makes sense. It's probably unreasonable to expect Kerbalism to work perfectly with every third-party part out there. Which is why you add an "Off" switch; to deal with unexpected problems. It's probably easiest to add a couple of stock panels. 

1 hour ago, Gotmachine said:

I'm not 100 % sure about this one, but I think that possible occlusion from the vessel itself isn't accounted for. The algorithm only check total occlusion from bodies and output efficiency related to panel orientation and if applicable, atmosphere density.

Again, that works for me. Just thinking of every possible problem.

1 hour ago, Gotmachine said:

But if you continue timewarping (without switching to the vessel, so it stays unloaded), is the sunlight/shadow icon updated when it should or is it stuck forever ?

This, I can't answer yet; I'll keep an eye out for it.

Thanks, this was very helpful. 

 

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If an exception is thrown inside the background simulation of a vessel, the symptoms will be partial or no simulation. So, only some modules may be simulated. This may be what you are seeing, @John Nowak. To confirm this, can you go in the debug menu of KSP (ALT+F12) -> Debugging -> Enable both 'Show all errors on screen' and 'Show all exceptions on screen'. Then when you see the problem happening, notice if there are yellow or red messages on the top right of your screen. If there are, kill KSP and send me the full log.

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About the MOLE issues, a dual-tracking solar panel is perfectly doable with stock modules, seems to me that the custom module from @Angel-125 is a bit overkill. The only drawback of using stock modules is that the first module (the one controlling roll around the ship axis) is always active, so it is constantly moving to track the sun even when the solar panel is retracted. Here is a MM patch for the MOLE "Solar Battery Module" part :

// Use stock modules instead of WBIDualAxisSolarArray for dual-axis sun tracking
@PART[WBI_SolarBatteryModule]
{
	-MODULE[WBIDualAxisSolarArray] {}
	-MODULE[ModuleDeployableSolarPanel] {}
	
	//Y-axis of SARJ is the pivot
	//Z-axis of suncatcher2 points to the sun.
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleDeployablePart 
		pivotName = SARJ
		secondaryTransformName = suncatcher2 // same as raycastTransformName in a ModuleDeployableSolarPanel
		trackingSpeed = 0.25
		isBreakable = false
		showStatus = false
	}
	
	//Y-axis of SolarArrayPivot is the pivot
	//Z-axis of suncatcher points to the sun.
	MODULE 
	{
		name = ModuleDeployableSolarPanel
		animationName = Deploy
		pivotName = SolarArrayPivot
		raycastTransformName = suncatcher
		windResistance = 5
		trackingSpeed = 0.25	
		isBreakable = true
		retractable = true
		resourceName = ElectricCharge
		chargeRate = 24.0
	} 
}

As for the "SPF-6 Solar Array", it use a WBIModuleMirroredSolarPanel whose function is to allow the player to reverse the direction the panel is facing, not really a critical feature (tbh, this feel a bit strange). I had to use a little trick with ModuleJettison to prevent the mirrored model to show up but everything seems to work fine, so here is a MM patch :

@PART[WBI_SkylabSolarPanel]
{
	-MODULE[WBIModuleMirroredSolarPanel] {}
	
	// Hacky way to hide the unused "SolarPanelMirror" model so there isn't any ugly clipping
	node_stack_disabled = 0.0, -1000.0, 0.0, 0.0, -1.0, 0.0, 0
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleJettison
		jettisonName = SolarPanelMirror
		bottomNodeName = disabled
		allowShroudToggle = false
	}
	
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleDeployableSolarPanel
		isTracking = false
		raycastTransformName = suncatcher
		pivotName = suncatcher
		animationName = Deploy
		retractable = false
		isBreakable = true
		impactResistance = 8
		resourceName = ElectricCharge
		chargeRate = 6.0
	}
}

 

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On 3/12/2017 at 6:25 AM, blakemw said:

This has come up several times in this thread. At the moment nitrogen can only be harvested from atmospheres (using the atmospheric sampling experiment), so unless you're making a base on Eve, Duna or Laythe you basically have to bring nitrogen from Kerbin. Realistically it should be possible to extract nitrogen from nitrate deposits but atm no such option exists, however someone has created a profile that allows (indirect) production of nitrogen from ore.

Is there a patch for Planetary Bases for this?

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Posted (edited)

Hey, i am trying to make an MM Patch for ConfigurableContainers mod to support all the resources you are using here but i am at loss considering the density/ratio

ConfigurableContainers uses "units per litre" and the container volume is given in m3 (so 1000L = 1m3) - does my math suck that much, that i am not able to calculate this from your definitions in Resources.cfg ?

Basically what i am trying to do, is to create a single Configurable "Resupply Ship" with lowest part count possible, this ship should be able to hold all Resources (Food, Water, Oxygen, Nitrogen, Hydrogen, Ammonia) as well as be able to transport Waste.

I know i could just punch the numbers in directly (size of the ship = size of ISS HTV so that is 4 of your Big In-Line Containers) but that's beside the point, i want to be able to choose what i transport up.

RESOURCE_DEFINITION
{
  name = Oxygen
  volume = 1
  density = 0.00000141
  unitCost = 0.000055836
  flowMode = ALL_VESSEL
  transfer = PUMP
  isTweakable = true
  isVisible = true
}

does this mean 1 unit of Oxygen is 0.00000141m3, so 1m3 would hold 709 219.85 units of Oxygen ?

High School was 20 years ago lol :D

 

Edit: I answered the question myself by asking it :D Density is exactly what i thought lol

Edited by Jasseji

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7 hours ago, ShotgunNinja said:

If an exception is thrown inside the background simulation of a vessel, the symptoms will be partial or no simulation. So, only some modules may be simulated. This may be what you are seeing, @John Nowak. To confirm this, can you go in the debug menu of KSP (ALT+F12) -> Debugging -> Enable both 'Show all errors on screen' and 'Show all exceptions on screen'. Then when you see the problem happening, notice if there are yellow or red messages on the top right of your screen. If there are, kill KSP and send me the full log.

The good news is that I believe it's fixed; the bad news is that I believe it is fixed.

I added a couple of stock solar panels to the station; since then, I haven't seen the error come up again. I'd guess that the stock solar panels provide enough juice to keep it up while in background. 

I suspect that Gotmachine's correct; this is an incompatibility issue between Kerbalism and the Mole parts.

I'm going to see if I can integrate Gotmachine's fixes into my game. Thanks very much!

6 hours ago, Gotmachine said:

About the MOLE issues, a dual-tracking solar panel is perfectly doable with stock modules, seems to me that the custom module from @Angel-125 is a bit overkill. The only drawback of using stock modules is that the first module (the one controlling roll around the ship axis) is always active, so it is constantly moving to track the sun even when the solar panel is retracted. Here is a MM patch for the MOLE "Solar Battery Module" part :

As for the "SPF-6 Solar Array", it use a WBIModuleMirroredSolarPanel whose function is to allow the player to reverse the direction the panel is facing, not really a critical feature (tbh, this feel a bit strange). I had to use a little trick with ModuleJettison to prevent the mirrored model to show up but everything seems to work fine, so here is a MM patch :

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I love this mod, but I've had a problem develop lately that makes it unplayable and I'm hoping someone can offer some advice. If I EVA and re-enter a vessel I can no longer control it. The batteries will still drain (even with solar panels extended) but I can't do anything at all. Exiting to the space centre does nothing and exiting to the main menu causes a crash about half the time (the music will play but I can't click on anything and can only exit through the task manager). Quite often when I load a vessel, even if I have control over it, the scrubbers stop working for no reason (despite all the menus indicating they are on and functioning normally). The only mods I have installed are Kerbal engineer, Science [x],Scansat and Visual Enhancements. I've been playing KSP since 0.21 and have never encountered these issues. Any thoughts? Thanks.

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9 hours ago, Calm_Blue_Ocean said:

If I EVA and re-enter a vessel I can no longer control it. The batteries will still drain (even with solar panels extended) but I can't do anything at all.

There is a known issue where if you EVA and plant a flag then upon returning to the vessel control will be locked out until you either remove the flag or completely exit and restart KSP.

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On 3/14/2017 at 4:31 PM, sp1989 said:

Kinda off topic but it's just a personal issue I have been having. How do you produce nitrogen for habitats and space stations. Is there a module or someway to make nitrogen that I stupidly just can't figure out? Or do we just have to keep re supplying our bases and stations with nitrogen?

I know this might be a stupid question but I'm still looking for answer please.

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@sp1989 You could look at the kerbalism wiki for such answers. Nitrogen can be harvested using the atmospheric harvester part on planets/moons that have an atmosphere : Kerbin, Eve and Laythe.

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15 minutes ago, Gotmachine said:

@sp1989 You could look at the kerbalism wiki for such answers. Nitrogen can be harvested using the atmospheric harvester part on planets/moons that have an atmosphere : Kerbin, Eve and Laythe.

What about on space stations and colonies on moons s planets without or limited atmospheres? I did consult the wiki I couldn't find the answer.

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1 minute ago, sp1989 said:

What about on space stations and colonies on moons s planets without or limited atmospheres? I did consult the wiki I couldn't find the answer.

you cant, theoretically it should be possible doing some nitrite reaction from soil but at the moment not implemented

You could just add a Resource converter to convert Ore into Nitrogen some way though

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Posted (edited)

@sp1989 The default Kerbalism profile is aimed at realism and self -sustainability is hard to achieve, so there is no other way to produce nitrogen. It is the same thing for the other resources (you can produce them, but not everywhere), so you must plan to have enough in stock and do resupply missions. I think that to be self-sustainable, you need Water, CarbonDioxide and Nitrogen, so the only places where you can do a totally self-sustaining base are Laythe and Duna.

Here is the list of where you can find which resource :

Spoiler

Kerbin :
- Water
- Nitrogen
- Oxygen
- CarbonDioxide

Mun :
- Water (only in Polar Crater biome)

Duna :
- Water (only in Poles biome)
- CarbonDioxide
- Nitrogen

Eve :
- CarbonDioxide
- Nitrogen

Jool :
- Hydrogen

Laythe :
- Water
- Nitrogen
- Oxygen
- Hydrogen
- CarbonDioxide

Eeloo :
- Water

 

Edited by Gotmachine
1 person likes this

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On 3/13/2017 at 10:58 PM, blakemw said:

Just put that into a .cfg file which is somewhere in GameData subfolders. You can literally put it almost anywhere (as long as it's in a cfg file) but what I do is have a folder in GameData for my personal tweaks (creatively called "personal") and put any custom cfg in that folder, no action is required to make that folder "a mod" as the game loads stuff from GameData indiscriminately. By not using an existing folder (such as kerbalism) there's no problem with my personal tweaks being lost due to mod updates.

Thanks. :)

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Posted (edited)

so, for anyone using Configurable Containers and being too lazy to make the calculations, here are the numbers for the units/Litre:

@TANKTYPE[LiquidChemicals]:NEEDS[Kerbalism]
{ @PossibleResources ^= :$: Ammonia 1300.39;: } //cfd

@TANKTYPE[Gases]:NEEDS[Kerbalism]
{ @PossibleResources ^= :$: Oxygen 709.219; CarbonDioxide 512.557; Hydrogen 11123.47; Nitrogen 799.36;: } //cfd

@TANKTYPE[Food]:NEEDS[Kerbalism]
{ @PossibleResources ^= :$: Food 3.55;: }

TANKTYPE:NEEDS[TacLifeSupport|Kerbalism]
{
	name = Waste
	UsefulVolumeRatio = 1
	TankCostPerSurface = 2 //pressurized
	PossibleResources = Waste 1.33; WasteWater 0.995;
}

TANKTYPE:NEEDS[TacLifeSupport|KolonyTools|WarpPlugin|Kerbalism]
{
	name = Water
	UsefulVolumeRatio = 1
	TankCostPerSurface = 2 //pressurized
	PossibleResources = Water 1; //cfd
}

Just look for the Specific Sections and add them there

 

Edited by Jasseji

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Hmmm, I'm getting CO2 fatalities at 100000x warp - but only when the vessel is loaded, when warping time at the tracking station it doesn't happen, also doesn't happen at lower warp speeds.

What happens is that after a few moments of 100000x warp the electric charge spontaneously zeros out and the kerbals die from CO2 poisoning, funny thing is that at 10000x warp the EC only fluctuates by ~500EC, with 17000EC the ship has plenty of buffer to handle expected fluctuations from time warp. There is no exception in the debug/log, and there is no warning about low power. Just instant EC zero out and instant death.

The vessel is a Jool transfer vessel which is exceptionally well equipped, with heaps of solar panels in full sun and massive redundancies in systems, unfortunately it also has quite a lot of mod parts - I activated a NFT nuclear reactor to see if it would make a difference and it didn't, the station can be powered fine by either solar or NFT reactor or both, and in all cases (both functional and dysfunctional) it works the same, so it's not an issue with the solar panels. I also tried restarting the game which made no difference.

I decided to reproduce it in stock+Kerbalism and succeeded without difficulty [save file]. I'm not sure what the minimum requirements to reproduce it is (i.e. perhaps a recycler is to blame), but I basically reproduced my vessel, a vessel where there is no excuse other than a bug: 16000EC, lots of solar panels, great redundancy in life support w/ all recyclers including CO2->O2 chemical plant. Put in orbit of sun, warp at 100000x speed and within moments everyone dies without warning, with the EC zeroing out.

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Posted (edited)

I think I've come across a bug where Kerbalism is adding about a ton of resources to the Kerbal when they're spawned to the game in command seats. The kerbal spawns in with Hydrazine, Oxygen, Food and Water, and ends up massing 1300kg. It's a little intermittent but happens often enough to make it relatively easy to reproduce. I think it's an interaction between Kerbalism and TakeCommand, at a guess Kerbalism is seeing the Kerbal as a command module? Either way added resources to anything in flight without letting me turn it off in the editor would seem to be wrong behaviour.

Thanks.

Edited by Citizen247

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@blakemw I've tried the save you provided, and I confirm the issue. It also happen at 10000x speed if you disable all the 4k batteries (so there is only 300 EC of storage in the mk1-2 pod) and all but one of the solar panels.

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