Frankly, I don't even *want* a v.1.2

[p1t1o]

Disclaimer:

Spoiler

 

Dear crazy parts of the internet,

Look at my profile, read some of my comments, I obviously have a healthy respect for Squad and love KSP, this is *by no means* a criticism of, well, anything. The following is more of a stream-of-conciousness than any kind of demand or strong opinion. Mainly triggered by the "Can't wait for 1.2!!!!!!!" style posts which popped up within minutes. Thats gotta be a little grating after working for so long on 1.1

 

A) Don't we want Squad to have an opportunity to perhaps look at another project? I don't think they are obligated to work on KSP for the rest of their lives. I'd love to see what else they can do.

B) I'd love to sit down with, if not a finalised version, at least a version that doesn't have a sword of Damocles hanging over certain features. Or some kind of weird reverse-sword-of-Damocles with new features waiting in the wings - I hate that feeling that I'm using something that is not yet "complete", like if I want to get really stuck into a long-term career game, I don't want a really cool feature to be introduced 6 months in which I can't use unless I start from scratch, yeah I hate that feeling.

C) Our updates have in the past been quite significant, 1.1 being a great example. And there are still issues and bugs. Alot I imagine, are related to things that were set when decisions were made several years ago, that cannot be undone without a complete re-write. Imagine how great they could make it if they started from the ground up with KSP 2.0, using all of the lessons they learned in the last 3 years from the start!

 

Peace/Out

Edited April 20, 2016 by p1t1o

[Korvath85]

Reply to:

A)  I agree.  Squad can work on what they want.  The way a lot of gaming and software companies do it is they get a product to a stable state (which is close).  Then they split off.  They'll have a "core" KSP team that continues working on the project, then have another team which works on new products and other assorted "black ops".

B)  I think this will be pretty much gone.  SQUAD has stated that their mantra is now that save-breakers are unacceptable.  Good stuff on them.

C)  That is the pipe dream of every software developer, ever...lol.  Start fresh knowing what we know now.  Never feasable, but always what we *want* to do.

[Darnok]

First 1.1.5 with stock remote tech and tons of new parts for ROCKETS... because this game is about rockets and space programs not only about planes (some futuristic and alternative methods of going into space also would be nice).

Then 1.2 with multiplayer and after that polish and fix bugs, because multiplayer is going to change game a lot.

[Grumman]

Re: the Sword of Damocles effect:

Something I suggested elsewhere is that it would be nice if the supporting parts for new "prepare or die" features be added to the game before the features that require them. Heat shields before reentry heating, long range antenna before stock remote tech, life support canisters before life support requirements. Let us stick these things on our craft as cosmetic items for a full patch cycle before they become essentials, so that by the time these features are added we've already been launching compatible ships for months.

[Curveball Anders]

17 minutes ago, Darnok said:

new parts for ROCKETS

I don't play Kerbal Flight Sim, I play proper flight sims when I want to fly planes.

But I still don't feel that KSP lacks any rocket parts.

[InsaneDruid]

8 minutes ago, p1t1o said:

Disclaimer:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Dear crazy parts of the internet,

Look at my profile, read some of my comments, I obviously have a healthy respect for Squad and love KSP, this is *by no means* a criticism of, well, anything. The following is more of a stream-of-conciousness than any kind of demand or strong opinion. Mainly triggered by the "Can't wait for 1.2!!!!!!!" style posts which popped up within minutes. Thats gotta be a little grating after working for so long on 1.1

 

A) Don't we want Squad to have an opportunity to perhaps look at another project? I don't think they are obligated to work on KSP for the rest of their lives. I'd love to see what else they can do.

B) I'd love to sit down with, if not a finalised version, at least a version that doesn't have a sword of Damocles hanging over certain features. Or some kind of weird reverse-sword-of-Damocles with new features waiting in the wings - I hate that feeling that I'm using something that is not yet "complete", like if I want to get really stuck into a long-term career game, I don't want a really cool feature to be introduced 6 months in which I can't use unless I start from scratch, yeah I hate that feeling.

C) Our updates have in the past been quite significant, 1.1 being a great example. And there are still issues and bugs. Alot I imagine, are related to things that were set when decisions were made several years ago, that cannot be undone without a complete re-write. Imagine how great they could make it if they started from the ground up with KSP 2.0, using all of the lessons they learned in the last 3 years from the start!

A) Do I want it? Actually: no. Why? Because Squad is rather good for KSP while other devs are good for their projects. And I see KSP far from "done" in a financial way. They can profit from it for quite a while probably, while starting a new project would mean years with no income. It was released rather recently, and the console launch inst even done yet. This is just not the time for quitting and starting something new.

B) I don't see such a sword. Especially in a game that takes the sandbox approach in such a good way and where new things to try are such a great deal of the fun. Also, upcycling save files is a feature that was introduced just literally yesterday. So even a hypothetical sword gets a soft cushion wrapped around it anyway. And I actually hate the feeling of using something that will not evolve any more. It feels dead to me. Abandoned.

C) Don't fall into the assumption that a game is ever rewritten completely for a successor. Why should it? Even complete new game engines share a lot from their predecessors. Speaking of engines: as you can perfectly see with the last patch, unity dictates quite a lot of the core functionality. That would not evolve faster with a KSP 2. And a new game would have new (and old) bugs. Just like a 1.2 and 1.3 will have.

[p1t1o]

I dunno why I put the "take a break" option in there, they can probably take annual leave whenever they want like the rest of us...

4 minutes ago, InsaneDruid said:

I actually hate the feeling of using something that will not evolve any more. It feels dead to me. Abandoned.

Interesting counterpoint...completely disagree, but its interesting that its diametrically opposite to myself. You wouldn't have enjoyed games in the 90's

[InsaneDruid]

11 minutes ago, p1t1o said:

Interesting counterpoint...completely disagree, but its interesting that its diametrically opposite to myself. You wouldn't have enjoyed games in the 90's

My first computer was a Commodore 64.^^

But just to add to this point: there are games, and there are games. A Zak McKracken could be finished. Both in development and especially: the game itself. Play it through and then its done. Same as Turrican. After the final boss, there are some playthroughs to beat high score but that's it.

But then there are games that act more as a service. A platform for the meta game to evolve. Like Unreal Tournament or, more recently: world of tanks/planes/anything. And especially sandbox games like KSP, that have no end. That are not confined by a storyline that dictates "the end". And these games live through constant support of the devs. Be it the original ones, or the modders. But ultimately, the devs. If squad would have stopped development after 1.0. maybe even after 1.0.5 (like most games these days: release, fix the most obvious bug, abandon the project). We would not have the unity5 support. For ever (or at for a long time if you would counter this by "modders" - But you see the masses of people that where involved around the clock by squad and it's affiliates. A much smaller mod team with their own jobs would probably need 2 or more years for this step alone).

And then, as said before, KSP is a year old. Not 3 or 4 like we see it just because we played it so early. They have just layed a very good foundation through A LOT of effort. I would see it as a huge financial waste for squad if they would not use this foundation for some time now. Maybe add (payed) addons?

[Curveball Anders]

None of the options.

I loved my 1.0.5, and so far I love my 1.1

I think that Squad will deliver (after my expected panic patches) a fun 1.2 or whatever.

I've had fun with KSP for 2 years, I expect to have fun with KSP for many years longer.

Some of the games that are still on my disk are 10, 20 and even 30 years old, KSP will stay in that group.

Edited April 20, 2016 by Curveball Anders
speling

[Servo]

I'd much rather have squad focus on minor updates, such as the above 1.1.5 or 1.05, bringing in small(ish) stuff like a RemoteTech interaction or similar, with 1.2 being reserved for major updates (multiplayer, for one), in the way the 1.1 brought Unity 5. No need to jump immediately to 2.0.

[p1t1o]

20 minutes ago, InsaneDruid said:

<snippity-snip>

Didn't really want to get into a big debate, your position is at least as valid as mine for sure!

21 minutes ago, InsaneDruid said:

My first computer was a Commodore 64.^^

IBM 286 w 640kb of RAM and a 2MB harddisk

[Godot]

24 minutes ago, InsaneDruid said:

My first computer was a Commodore 64.^^

...

Same here ... Commodore 64 + Datasette (i.e. "ordinary" audio cassettes as storage space ...many of the younger people may not even know anymore, what an audio cassette is :D)

 

As for topic:

Nope ... IMHO there are lots of good things that could be officially implemented (i.e. not "just" by mods) ... for example 1-2 additional gas giants (which IIRC also was in the plans a loing while ago) ... a life support system ... maybe a beautification of Kerbin (for example cities on the surface) and other planets ... a weather/temperature system (outside of reentry heat) ... and many more things.

 

Therefore IMHO Squad should work on new things (while not neglecting bugfixing of course) as they wish and see it to be financially viable (perhaps some of the things could also be put into addons that have to be bought)

[Mrstickball]

I feel like KSP is much in a situation of Minecraft.... The concept is brilliant, and the open-endedness can make for something magical. Ultimately, its up to them to decide how long they work on the game, but I really think there are a lot of things could be added to it (especially rocket parts... 2.5/5m SRBs please!).

I think more content can be added/is needed.. I know mods can fill the gap, but there's really no good colonization endgame available without mods from what I've played. Expanding/creating off-world bases is very tedious and is a huge sink that doesn't have a real-world analoge (I am literally launching trucks into space to land on Minmus for re-fueling at this point.. Whereas a deployable/expandable base based on tonnage would make a lot more sense). 

[InsaneDruid]

11 minutes ago, p1t1o said:

Didn't really want to get into a big debate, your position is at least as valid as mine for sure!

IBM 286 w 640kb of RAM and a 2MB harddisk

Yours is absolutely valid, for sure!

A harddisk! My first one was in the Amiga 3000 Well actually, I had a 286 with hdd for some weeks before returning it and buying an Amiga2000 At least I aleady had a FDD on the 64. Though a friend of mine also had a datasette.

[Marcus Helios]

Who cares if you want a 1.2 or not? Why even ask this question?

[Madrias]

Honestly, I'd like to see some bug-fixes and general polish, but I'm not overly concerned at this time about it.

[p1t1o]

6 minutes ago, Marcus Helios said:

Who cares if you want a 1.2 or not? Why even ask this question?

Or that one, frankly.

[Marcus Helios]

1 minute ago, p1t1o said:

Or that one, frankly.

?

[p1t1o]

Just now, Marcus Helios said:

?

Nevermind

[CobaltWolf]

1 hour ago, InsaneDruid said:

...I actually hate the feeling of using something that will not evolve any more. It feels dead to me. Abandoned.

1

So many times I've tried to get back into an MMO and gotten this feeling. There are so many vestigial communities. Blacklight: Retribution and Planetside 2 come to mind.

Personally, I think Squad should keep updating. I mean, sure, take a break, pull the dev cycle back a couple notches to a more relaxed pace for a while. Catch their breath after working for nearly a year straight. But absolutely they should start working on 1.2. Or 1.1.5 if you want to call it that. It really doesn't matter to me. Bug fixes from the last version, and adding the antenna relays and PBR that got cut from last version. After that who knows. I just don't want them to stop updating - I'm still busting my butt for mods and I'd be saddened to know I started working on them too late in the game's lifecycle.

[Curveball Anders]

Real nerds started with a Sinclair ZX-80 with 1 kB of ram, or stuff that we created ourself from chips and veroboards.

So called pioneers who got C-64's or even Amigas from their parents doesn't count.

Back in my days a 'portable' computer meant that it could be moved with a forklift

And so on, I still have an 8" boot floppy for an 11/780 at hand ..

[stupid_chris]

I think it's important to mention that Squad is not a video game development or publisher studio. They're a Mexican marketing company, that happened to give the resources to one of their employees (Felipe) to start developing what was to be a small scale game. How we got here wasn't planned or expected. To expect new games from Squad is simply foolish.

[I_Killed_Jeb]

Nobody on the forums is preventing Squad from doing anything. Calm down.

[Wallygator]

22 minutes ago, stupid_chris said:

I think it's important to mention that Squad is not a video game development or publisher studio. They're a Mexican marketing company, that happened to give the resources to one of their employees (Felipe) to start developing what was to be a small scale game. How we got here wasn't planned or expected. To expect new games from Squad is simply foolish.

I'm not sure this is still a current statement --> the bit about them NOT being a game company.  I believe they are now a spin off - they ARE now a company that develops and publishes electronic games.

A moderator might kindly step-in here for a moment to shed light on this specific issue and clarify if I or others are incorrect on this.

[smjjames]

And miss out on the graphics refresh in 1.2? No thanks.