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[1.11] RemoteTech v1.9.9 [2020-12-19]


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In an old 1.1.3 build I had 2x Geostationary Satellites around Duna spread evenly between Duna and Ike so that The 3 Sats in Orbit around IKE were the "Third" satellite in the 3x geosynch array that provided 24/7 Coverage of Duna. 

It was my greatest remotetech accomplishment.  I'm going to re-do it in 1.2.2 now that I've heard they've fixed the orbital jittering/decay/stability issues that plagued 1.1.x

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4 hours ago, Nathair said:

Are they in an icosapentagon? I would love to see a screenie of that! The most I've ever thrown up into a single net was one launch into a hexagonal constellation. Usually I just throw up a square for LKO and then pairs or triplets for specific deeper relay applications.

actually, they are just in one ring. i still need to put up the rest of it lol

EDIT: just looked up what an icosapentagon is. it's supposed to be, but 2 of them drifted out and the spacing between sat 24 and sat 1 isn't perfect

EDIT 2: i just made relays visible again, and the entire sat network has drifted out of alignment. which is ok, because i need to replace it anyway. it's satellites don't even have reaction wheels on them. but they have enough range that it doesn't matter if they are out of alignment

Edited by Plecy75
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17 hours ago, ezequielandrush said:

Hi, I don't know if this is the place for this question, but sometimes my antenna parts go missing.
Is that a common issue?

I have a mission in solar orbit and some sats for long range point to point connections that often losses their high gain dish antennas

 

Thanks in advance

 

Zeke

Hi,

Does this part disappearance occur right after the flight loading, and are they only antenna parts or any other part like solar panels, structures?

I am thinking this part-loss problem is stock because I do lose some random parts (very rarely though) upon loading in my own play sessions.

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2 hours ago, TaxiService said:

Hi,

Does this part disappearance occur right after the flight loading, and are they only antenna parts or any other part like solar panels, structures?

I am thinking this part-loss problem is stock because I do lose some random parts (very rarely though) upon loading in my own play sessions.

Hello,

I've checked some old saves and the parts are there. They where missing some time between.I only had this issue twice, and both times in vessels in sun orbit and high gain dish antennas.

I hope this helps. I have the saves if you want to see them.

Another question. Is there a way to edit the savegame file in order to add the antenna?

 

Thanks

Zeke

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35 minutes ago, ezequielandrush said:

Hello,

I've checked some old saves and the parts are there. They where missing some time between.I only had this issue twice, and both times in vessels in sun orbit and high gain dish antennas.

I hope this helps. I have the saves if you want to see them.

Another question. Is there a way to edit the savegame file in order to add the antenna?

 

Thanks

Zeke

Yes, please. Send me both saves before and after. I also need a list of your mods so that I can download and install. (or yet better zip your mods inside your GameData except for Squad folder and send along with your save if your bandwidth allows)

For the edit, one approach is to find your craft data (with your antenna) in your before save, and then overwrite the same craft data in the after save with the craft data of the before save.

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Ok ive got a funky issue and not sure what ive jacked up.    I got remote tech / opm/ seti rebalance.     And alot of other mods.   Id link my log but at work.    But maybe someone knows a fix or this has popped up before.       Trying to use seti ground stations.   tried using kerbinside ground stations but neither work.   Loaded preset and red dots on map appear but got no connection even at launch pad.    Could this be a bone head setting i didnt do? Aka extra ground stations per options?    Or is this a DLL config issue with both kerbin side and seti ground stations not being fully up to date?      Any input would be appreciated. Thank you 

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@neitsa and @TaxiService  from like 4 months ago i got a late request lol.     Tracking satilite dishes that actually track the station they are communicating with.    A better flight computer so i can program exactly what i want my probe to do thats not so wonky lol.  Exp.    Set up a flight plan to burn into orbit after it gets over the horizon using gravity turn mod then switch to mcjeb to circularize my orbit at set hight then point dish back to celestrial once all operations completed.... Currently if i try this and it misses its mark or falls over horizon im screwed lol  

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13 hours ago, crapstar said:

Does AGX mod work with RT? Thanks

I took a quick glance at the AGX thread. It seems AGX has the action-group support for RT's flight computer and signal delay. Can you go ahead and find out with AGX and RT?

12 hours ago, NemesisBosseret said:

@neitsa and @TaxiService  from like 4 months ago i got a late request lol.     Tracking satilite dishes that actually track the station they are communicating with.    A better flight computer so i can program exactly what i want my probe to do thats not so wonky lol.  Exp.    Set up a flight plan to burn into orbit after it gets over the horizon using gravity turn mod then switch to mcjeb to circularize my orbit at set hight then point dish back to celestrial once all operations completed.... Currently if i try this and it misses its mark or falls over horizon im screwed lol  

Although we have the rebuilt flight computer and dish tracking features in our RT 2.0 proposal, I need some details on your tracking request. Do you want the rotation animation on dish in flight or just automatic connection to ground stations within your vessel's comm range? Even with additional RT ground stations, there is a dead zone to the east of KSC (it also shows in stock CommNet, even with the extra ground stations enabled). You need to ascent at much steeper angle/AoA (or just toss cheap probes around the dead zone)

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On 2/21/2017 at 2:24 AM, TaxiService said:

I took a quick glance at the AGX thread. It seems AGX has the action-group support for RT's flight computer and signal delay. Can you go ahead and find out with AGX and RT?

Although we have the rebuilt flight computer and dish tracking features in our RT 2.0 proposal, I need some details on your tracking request. Do you want the rotation animation on dish in flight or just automatic connection to ground stations within your vessel's comm range? Even with additional RT ground stations, there is a dead zone to the east of KSC (it also shows in stock CommNet, even with the extra ground stations enabled). You need to ascent at much steeper angle/AoA (or just toss cheap probes around the dead zone)

The technical issue i was experiencing i fixed with RT.  The mission control multiplier reset to zero and i didnt catch it,   the dead zone doesnt bother me at all ,  its actually pretty realistic considering its mostly ocean to the east.  As to dish rotation in real life mobile objects that use comm nets have tracking dishes.   Aka the dish physically tracks the satilite in orbit.   Orbital communications satilites have multiple coverage zones on one dish.    You have coverage beams that cover wide areas.   Aka entire planets.  These beams basically wait for a call to adjust spot beams.. Typically 3 of them.   Spot beams are more focused and are for low bandwidth communications.    Then you got agile beams.  These are for high data rate.      Examples of this in game would be like DTS-m1 would transmit to kerbin coverage beams while a dish would transmit to the spot beams/ agile beams.    You would have high signal delay on the fixed antennas like the communitrons due to low data rates and bandwidth while a satilite dish big or small with enough power applied could reach to the next solar system traveling at the speed of light.    If the satilites where not physically tracking the probes in deep space there would be zero communication but once a ptp (point to point) is established light speed comms exsist.  So to the moon in our solar system signal delay is 1.2 seconds while Pluto is 5.3 hours.  Kerbal system is 1/10 etc.     If this could be accurately modded and simulated with animation and communication tracking satilite dishes which track there parent comm hoist would be awsome(yes i know parts of this is simulated but it is a wee bit off).    Could work as simple as the track target function and then with the flight computer just plugging in simulation orders and loading the flight plan then sending and having to load flight plan thru rt then executing.   flight computer turns probe to execute maniuver then executes then returns to oreintation to find RT signal.    Smaller dishes like a dish for tv could be covered by ray domes so you wouldnt need animation for it but dish should be unobstructed so it would oreintate craft so dish has clear los.     For planetary communication aka on kerbin this los thing with rt is kinda foolish because if i need to hit the other side of the planet i would just broadcast on HF global thru an antenna like comm 16 or 16s.   Since hf will bounce off the atmosphere and i can hit anywhere on the globe.  The only time you really use a dish is when you need a focused signal to be transmitted thru the atmosphere to hit a space object then to relay to another side of the planet then to ur home station or controlling station.      The reason we use sat phones etc is for privacy/ secrecy and the signal travels faster with less interference...  I dont know if ksp can simulate this but its how real world comms work.   You could transmit binary thru morse code from ksp and hit the entire planet.    In space you could hit both the mun and minmus with a hf signal if you could focus the hf beam to exit our atmosphere on super high power(the kind you would fry from 3rd degree burns standing next to) or maybe just broadcast UHF(bridge to bridge) at high power to a satilite then relay on hf in space.     Our Apollo missions communicated thru the mf and hf bands.   About 500khz to send video and the rest was on 4.5Mhz.    But after that range interference from our atmosphere and radiation from the van allen belt is to great and the signal gets covered by noise and lost in space.  A computer is too stupid to find a signal that weak.... A human operator could but computer no.... Pretty sure kerbals are dumber than the computers i speak of too..      But this is just my thoughts on how to make RT better and more realistic..   I did communications for 7 1/2. Years in the military with sats and land based.   So this is just from my expertise and experience... Still love the mod and its attempt to simulate this

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Correction: bridge to bridge is VHF. Not UHF.   But definitly need UHF for automated space comms.  VHF is los and signal loss thru our ionosphere would require manual attuninaztion.    

 In lamens terms go sit in ur car and hit scan on ur radio.. Write down all the signals you get ,  do it again manually and write down each you hear something on besides static...  This is filtered RF and even super computers cant find artifical noise on the RF floor and distingish it from just noise.      

Edited by NemesisBosseret
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@NemesisBosseret

  • Tracking dishes: Can you please provide an example of a tracking dish mounted on a spacecraft? I'm no expert (not even close) nut I have yet to see any mention of such thing (not even on rovers). Also RT does not take physical position of the dish on the craft into accout anyway, so the tracking would be only cosmetic. Taking dish axis from the actual craft/dish position may be considered later in RT 2.0 development though as an extra difficult option.
  • Delay based on type of connection: The planned framework for delay in RT 2.0 will allow for inclusion of other factors in addition to speed of light delay.
  • Planetary comms: As KSP is mostly about exploring space, it seems reasonable to have communication mechanics focused on that. Also I'm quite sceptical about data bandwidth on frequencies required for ionospheric reflection (roughly <10MHz). There's a reson why live TV is not transmitted that way, but relayed through a satellite using C or Ku band. And any crewed mission in KSP needs a video downlink for the face cam.
  • Apollo missions: I'll just point you >here<
  • In general: It is important to understand that KSP is still just a game and it's relation to our (human) history of space exploration is not that tight. For example Kerbals start by sending other Kerbals into space before they even consider sending out probes. That suggests they do things differently. It is also important to note that any game mechanic in KSP (stock or modded) must strike some balance between percieved realism and playability (not to mention complexity of code, especially in case of mods). RT has no concepf of frequency, so it had to pick a behavior that would fit the most, which is based on S and X bands used for anything going past the Moon. RT 2.0 may include some frequency differentiation as an extra option.

I hope I managed to comment on all your suggestions. It's not easy to follow several ideas mixed in a single big block of text.

Edited by Yamori Yuki
fixed some typos
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26 minutes ago, Yamori Yuki said:

@NemesisBosseret

  • Tracking dishes: Can you please provide an example of a tracking dish ounted on a spacecraft? I'm no expert (not even close) nut I have yet to see any mention of such thing (not even on rovers). Also RT does not take physical position of the dish on the craft into accout anyway, so the tracking would be only cosmetic. Taking dish axis from the actual craft/dish position may be considered later in RT 2.0 development though as an extra difficult option.

I for one feel that making sure that the right dish is pointing in the right direction all the time would just be a realism too far. Sure, I do sometimes think to myself during a mission "Oops, that dish is pointing nowhere near Kerbin" and I might rotate the craft just for fluff reasons, but having it as a rule would just making ship design and missions too hard.

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Just now, cyberpunkdreams said:

I for one feel that making sure that the right dish is pointing in the right direction all the time would just be a realism too far. Sure, I do sometimes think to myself during a mission "Oops, that dish is pointing nowhere near Kerbin" and I might rotate the craft just for fluff reasons, but having it as a rule would just making ship design and missions too hard.

If it ever makes past the idea stage, it will be an extra module not included and certainly not active in a default installation, so no need to worry. Whether it's worth coding is something yet to be determined :)

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2 hours ago, Yamori Yuki said:
  • Tracking dishes: Can you please provide an example of a tracking dish mounted on a spacecraft? I'm no expert (not even close) nut I have yet to see any mention of such thing (not even on rovers).

Good question must say. The tracking mount and motors add considerable mass, plus motors and the control electronics may fail during a mission. Tracking dishes are therefore not that common on spacecraft, while they are almost mandatory on ground (and shipborne) stations.

With communication relay, GPS/GLONASS/Galileo, weather, surface imagery and most spy birds in orbit around Earth, there is a specific attitude the whole craft must keep at all times (aiming at a specific spot on the surface), so the communication antennae are mounted to face that direction too. In most cases directivity of the antenna is low, so it has enough gain even if the station it should aim is distant a few degrees from where the main equipment aboard the craft must aim. Size of a dish is directly proportional to gain and inversely to the frequency used, that's also why many birds and probes in deep space generally use K-Ka frequency bands. If higher gain is required and frequency is high enough, instead of a dish a phased array antenna can be used (it has a lot of RF circuitry making it more massive than a dish, but its lobe can be aimed without moving the antenna, no need for a tracking mount).

Deep space probes (e.g. Pioneer) have a communication antenna that is the largest piece of equipment aboard, the craft attitude is controlled to have that always aimed at Earth, apart when the scientific instruments need to be aimed at a body. Again it is the whole craft to track a specific direction, not the antenna.

However there are cases when the craft is tied to a specific direction because of its mission, e.g. Hubble Space Telescope has a couple tracking antennae for communications.

Rovers need a tracking antenna however to keep communication while a body rotates and they move around, like the small dish visible at the rear of Mars Exploration Rovers.

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Been trying to get RO/RP-0 working on 1.2.2, but I ran into the issue where science would not actually transmit after the antenna said it was 100% and done. I spent hours troubleshooting, and i think I found the source of the problem and a possible solution to try.

When the code calculates how many packets it will need to send, it divides the amount of data by the packet size, then rounds UP to the nearest integer. Sounds good. However, whenever a 0.29 Mit packet transfers, 0.3 is removed from the data left to transmit. So when it tries to transmit the last of the data, there is no data to transmit, and thus it ends up short of the required data to get the science. Ex: 9 Mit science data, 0.29 packet size is broken into 32 packets. However, because 0.3 remaining is removed each time, after 30 packets it says there is no data left to transmit, but only 8.7 Mits has been transmitted. 

 

This appears to originate from what is currently Lines 122 and 123 of the ModuleRTDataTransmitter.cs on the Github.

dataAmount -= frame;

dataAmount = (float)Math.Round(dataAmount, 1);

 

From my limited knowledge of coding, appears to be reducing the value of dataAmount by the value of frame, which was previously set to the minimum of PacketSize or dataAmount. Then it rounds the new dataAmount to the nearest tenth. I do not think line 123 (the rounding) is needed and is causing the issue with not transmitting all of the data.

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8 hours ago, Jobadiah said:

Been trying to get RO/RP-0 working on 1.2.2, but I ran into the issue where science would not actually transmit after the antenna said it was 100% and done. I spent hours troubleshooting, and i think I found the source of the problem and a possible solution to try.

When the code calculates how many packets it will need to send, it divides the amount of data by the packet size, then rounds UP to the nearest integer. Sounds good. However, whenever a 0.29 Mit packet transfers, 0.3 is removed from the data left to transmit. So when it tries to transmit the last of the data, there is no data to transmit, and thus it ends up short of the required data to get the science. Ex: 9 Mit science data, 0.29 packet size is broken into 32 packets. However, because 0.3 remaining is removed each time, after 30 packets it says there is no data left to transmit, but only 8.7 Mits has been transmitted. 

 

This appears to originate from what is currently Lines 122 and 123 of the ModuleRTDataTransmitter.cs on the Github.

dataAmount -= frame;

dataAmount = (float)Math.Round(dataAmount, 1);

 

From my limited knowledge of coding, appears to be reducing the value of dataAmount by the value of frame, which was previously set to the minimum of PacketSize or dataAmount. Then it rounds the new dataAmount to the nearest tenth. I do not think line 123 (the rounding) is needed and is causing the issue with not transmitting all of the data.

Thanks for this bug report. We are aware of this (stubborn) bug some time ago and already include a fix to our next release (with several other fixes). This fix is essentially the transmission of the whole science data amount at the end of the transmission because the KSP will clamp the final size of the packet anyway.

(more context: this link. Science data is float-type, meaning it gets approx very easily and fails sum/equal comparison, resulting in multiple fix attempts up to now)

Edited by TaxiService
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1 hour ago, TaxiService said:

Thanks for this bug report. We are aware of this (stubborn) bug some time ago and already include a fix to our next release (with several other fixes). This fix is essentially the transmission of the whole science data amount at the end of the transmission because the KSP will clamp the final size of the packet anyway.

Reading through the code, it is a more clear why you would want the single decimal rounding, especially after I found some parts had packetsize = 0.xxxx (can't remember the number, just that it had more decimals than needed). I suppose if you didn't want to just send the entire science amount when packets_remaining=0, you could also round the packet size to a single decimal.   Okay, so there could be a 0.0001 scienceData.dataAmount floating around, especially when using a mod like scansat. Thanks for the explanation. 

Keep up the good work guys and thank you for sharing.

Edited by Jobadiah
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https://www.google.com/search?q=space+tracking+dish&client=ms-android-hms-tmobile-us&prmd=isnv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj645ep-K7SAhVirVQKHe8kBvkQ_AUIBygB&biw=360&bih=518#tbm=isch&q=communication+dish+in+raydome&*&imgrc=1Zc2nZ8g08Gu6M:

https://www.google.com/search?q=deep+space+satellite+communication&client=ms-android-hms-tmobile-us&prmd=niv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwis-ZaI-a7SAhUJsFQKHZ0dDaAQ_AUICCgC&biw=360&bih=518#imgdii=hJoz6OPrOKFtOM:&imgrc=0XwkCXEJPg67cM:

Hope that helps linking you to the stuff im talking about.    Sorry about giant message i was very tired trying to convey the thought.   

Tracking dishes: would be for planetary rovers etc trying to communicate to space bound satilite.   The higher moving speed of the satilite in space on a craft not geostationary would cause the dish to have to track.   In space the dish would have to align to the target.   So planetary have covered dish by raydome while in space could force craft to align to target.    

Planetary comms:   i can guarantee that you can establish comms across an entire planet on HF.   The comm circuit is called HF global.   Its a high power hf antenna and high gain recievers.   Its been the standard communication on our planet now for almost 70 years.    Other examples are morse code.  It transmitts on an hf freq detectable all across the planet just like LF and vlf are.     The lower the freq the more robust the signal but much lower data rate transfer while the higher the freq the higher data rate transfer rate but degregation occures at a much higher rate as well.   Its a trade off.    So on UHF and EHF. Circuits you can penitrate the upper atmosphere and hit a satilite you couldnt go much further than that.   The signal will deteriorate to quickly.    For deep space communication its done mostly via lasers for speed of light comms at very high data rate transfers but the signal still degregates over time and distance.     In theory you could transmit on LF OR VLF directionally in space and could hit lightyears away with almost a mile long reciever or longer  antenna to catch the entire wave length of transmitted data.    But ur looking at one diget of binary a second instead of thosands or millions of digets of binary being used to upload this message to the forms that you are now reading.

 You guys almost got it right.   But like i said a bit off.     Data transfer is based off freq.   Higher the freq the higher the rate.    Higher freq equals higher penitration too but the higher the freq the faster the signal degregation.    So for long distance you use lower freq for more reliable comms.     The communitron 16 would be able to transmit a signal from eeloo to kerbin easily just to recieve the dish would have to be in space and very large. For this reciever to relay To talk to ksc you would need a UHF signal to break atmosphere to hit the ksc dishes.  Then the return signal would have to go UHF to sat from sat on hf or LF out into deep space to eeloo probe.  Probe would need massive dish to recieve full wave legth of signal then process data etc.   

Transmitter antenna(communitron 16)

https://www.google.com/search?q=transmitter+antenna&client=ms-android-hms-tmobile-us&prmd=sivn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjs76aOga_SAhXChlQKHT7yBRkQ_AUICCgC&biw=360&bih=518#imgrc=8dcoGA7QcoykkM:

Reciever antenna(dish antenna)

https://www.google.com/search?q=receiver+antenna&client=ms-android-hms-tmobile-us&prmd=sivn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj_7aa3ga_SAhVHllQKHcX4BPIQ_AUICCgC&biw=360&bih=518#imgrc=vFVMmcXVVtFiyM:

 The geniuses who wrote up the wikipidea on the apollo missions didnt fully understand RF.     Not really there fault tho.    Its why collages also teach the topic incorrectly.    To know this stuff you gotta work in the field with it to grasp how it really works.

To respond to ur general :   totally get its just a game and you guys did an awsome job of adding this level of realism to the game and i totally love it.   But just giving a bit of feedback / request if you want to go for more authentic communication and more realism.      Thank you for reading my giant books of posts.

@Yamori Yuki

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Hi, I'm getting error "Coroutine couldn't be started because the the game object 'Tundra.Workshop250' is inactive!" in version 1.8.4 when antenna is added to a ship. This is definitelly a conflict with RoverDude's MKS, so it's just heads up, that this kind of error can arise:

RemoteTech: ModuleRTDataTransmitter::OnLoad
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/UnityEngineDebugBindings.gen.cpp Line: 42)

RemoteTech: ModuleRTAntenna: Find TRANSMITTER success.
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/UnityEngineDebugBindings.gen.cpp Line: 42)

RemoteTech: ModuleRTAntenna: Add TRANSMITTER success.
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/UnityEngineDebugBindings.gen.cpp Line: 42)

Coroutine couldn't be started because the the game object 'Tundra.Workshop250' is inactive!
 
(Filename:  Line: 738)

Coroutine couldn't be started because the the game object 'Tundra.AssemblyPlant' is inactive!
 
(Filename:  Line: 738)

Coroutine couldn't be started because the the game object 'Ranger.Workshop' is inactive!
 
(Filename:  Line: 738)

 

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6 hours ago, maja said:

Hi, I'm getting error "Coroutine couldn't be started because the the game object 'Tundra.Workshop250' is inactive!" in version 1.8.4 when antenna is added to a ship. This is definitelly a conflict with RoverDude's MKS, so it's just heads up, that this kind of error can arise:


RemoteTech: ModuleRTDataTransmitter::OnLoad
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/UnityEngineDebugBindings.gen.cpp Line: 42)

RemoteTech: ModuleRTAntenna: Find TRANSMITTER success.
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/UnityEngineDebugBindings.gen.cpp Line: 42)

RemoteTech: ModuleRTAntenna: Add TRANSMITTER success.
 
(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/UnityEngineDebugBindings.gen.cpp Line: 42)

Coroutine couldn't be started because the the game object 'Tundra.Workshop250' is inactive!
 
(Filename:  Line: 738)

Coroutine couldn't be started because the the game object 'Tundra.AssemblyPlant' is inactive!
 
(Filename:  Line: 738)

Coroutine couldn't be started because the the game object 'Ranger.Workshop' is inactive!
 
(Filename:  Line: 738)

 

Thank you for letting us know on this error!

(More specifically, the error seems to say that one or more parts of RoverDude's MKS are deliberately deactivated until as some milestones of a career are achieved?)

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11 minutes ago, TaxiService said:

Thank you for letting us know on this error!

(More specifically, the error seems to say that one or more parts of RoverDude's MKS are deliberately deactivated until as some milestones of a career are achieved?)

I get this error to even in Sandbox though.

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