Devnote Tuesday: We’re back!

[Violent Jeb]

At this rate I imagine never. But i'm quite sure you're not supposed to ask.

On 5/26/2016 at 1:59 PM, insert_name said:

It's called 1.0.5

It's funny that you think 1.0.5 didn't have any problems. Not only that but with constant feature creep the old versions which you term stable are always missing content and features because they never stop adding them. Not to put to fine a point on it, but since not even the physical laws of the solar system are stable, it makes little sense for me to play and practice in a version I already know is going to be fundamentally different in craft design and flight characteristics, even compared to what we have in 1.1.2. But its cool that you're okay with waiting years to have a stable version of the existing features.

[MaxPeck]

7 hours ago, taniwha said:

NathanKell mentioned that KSP's complexity is both its strength and its weakness. I say he hit the nail on the head, Karate Kid II style.

Okay, I have to give you coolness points for this.  As for the rest of what you said... it's a game/it's not a game, it's a simulation, but it's not... what I'm coming to realize is that KSP is the best Kickstarter campaign I've ever backed.  I do really stand in awe of the work that has gone into KSP, both from the devs, and from the mod makers.  Like you said, the scale and capabilities of the game are what keep us coming back, even in its various incarnations of almostness.  I think where a lot of heartburn comes in is that many of us are not used to buying a product that isn't off-the-shelf complete, and one of the hardest learning curves of the game isn't about rocket science or sound design principles, it's about learning to manage expectations.

As for giving up on submitting bug reports and logs - there are (last time I looked) over a thousand open bug reports already.  Or at least several hundred.  Why pile on?  What good is another CTD report going to do added to the pile of hundreds already submitted?  I don't think they need more bug reports, I think they need time to address the ones they already have (which most likely would already include my issue).  For me, crashes are my cue to go do something else for a while.  Like a built-in reminder to go get some sunshine and a fresh drink. 

Edited May 27, 2016 by JJE64
inappropriate apostrophe

[taniwha]

4 hours ago, JJE64 said:

I think where a lot of heartburn comes in is that many of us are not used to buying a product that isn't off-the-shelf complete, and one of the hardest learning curves of the game isn't about rocket science or sound design principles, it's about learning to manage expectations.

I very strongly suspect you are correct with this.

 

4 hours ago, JJE64 said:

Why pile on?  What good is another CTD report going to do added to the pile of hundreds already submitted?

Another crash report? Not much use (may be of negative value, even, as duplicate reports dilute the information and increase QA's workload). Adding your logs and description of when it happened to an existing report: potentially invaluable (though finding a good report to which adding your data will help will not be easy, I'm sure).

Still, for other issues that aren't there? Good bug reports are invaluable. Good means informative summary title, detailed reproduction steps, and logs, screenshots etc as needed. Even not-so-good bug reports do not go ignored. Oh, and adding good information to a not-so-good report can make it a good report.

[lthz]

On 24 May 2016 at 10:01 PM, SQUAD said:

Finally, work is progressing nicely on the console versions of Kerbal Space Program: hopefully we can share good news on that front very soon™!

Are you planning on doing a beta release or some other kind of pre-release for the consoles? #impatient

[NathanKell]

It's also worth mentioning, as it has been mentioned a good few times before in various accounts of how QA and Exp work, but perhaps missed, that there are other trackers. Just because progress on an issue isn't shown in the public tracker doesn't mean, say, the issue hasn't been copied to one of the others and progress (or hitting a roadblock) posted there.

[adsii1970]

11 hours ago, lthz said:

Are you planning on doing a beta release or some other kind of pre-release for the consoles? #impatient

Now remember that I am in no way a moderator or even an employee of SQUAD. I am a dedicated KSP player and have invested a lot of personal time making graphics for the forum and have recently started writing my own mods. I think that SQUAD would be foolish to release another beta or pre-release for any product KSP related, whether it is the computer or console game. Be patient and I know it is hard, but if Squad has learned any lesson from the pre-release for 1.1, when it finally releases a console game, I bet it will be a much smoother roll-out. 

Again, just be patient...

[RocketSquid]

Quick version comparison:

1.0.5:

• Largest issues: Frequent crash on scene change, LAAAAGGG
• Fan responses:
  • "SQUAD!! My game is too laggy and crashes too often! Finish 1.1 so I won't have to worry about performance anymore!"
  • "1.0 wasn't really complete! We should still be in beta! Give us 1.1 so the game finally seems complete."
• Playable?: Yes

1.1 pre-release:

• Largest issues: Many
• Fan responses:
  • Those who played it: Either "AAAAAHHHHH!!!! EVERYTHING IS ON FIRE!!!" or "Meh"
  • Those who didn't: "SQUAD! Why are you taking so long! Just release it already, whether or not there are still bugs."
• Playable?: Yes

1.1.2:

• Largest issues: Random CTD, Landing leg/gear problems
• Fan responses, based on this thread:
  • "1.0.5 was so much more stable than this. It never crashed."
  • "My game is crashing wildly, and is causing me displeasure. I would appreciate it greatly if you could fix it, good devs."
  • "AAUUGH!! SQUAD!! You ruined everything! My landing gear fail when I (land at unsafe speeds/touch them with kerbals/both). This makes the game completely unplayable!"
• Playable?: Very.

I personally have suffered from the random CTDs, and while I find them annoying it will do me no good to complain on the forums. The devs would be able to spend a lot more time developing if they weren't stuck wading through complaints.

[mikegarrison]

14 hours ago, RocketSquid said:

Quick version comparison:

1.0.5:

• Largest issues: Frequent crash on scene change, LAAAAGGG
• Fan responses:
  • "SQUAD!! My game is too laggy and crashes too often! Finish 1.1 so I won't have to worry about performance anymore!"
  • "1.0 wasn't really complete! We should still be in beta! Give us 1.1 so the game finally seems complete."
• Playable?: Yes

1.1 pre-release:

• Largest issues: Many
• Fan responses:
  • Those who played it: Either "AAAAAHHHHH!!!! EVERYTHING IS ON FIRE!!!" or "Meh"
  • Those who didn't: "SQUAD! Why are you taking so long! Just release it already, whether or not there are still bugs."
• Playable?: Yes

1.1.2:

• Largest issues: Random CTD, Landing leg/gear problems
• Fan responses, based on this thread:
  • "1.0.5 was so much more stable than this. It never crashed."
  • "My game is crashing wildly, and is causing me displeasure. I would appreciate it greatly if you could fix it, good devs."
  • "AAUUGH!! SQUAD!! You ruined everything! My landing gear fail when I (land at unsafe speeds/touch them with kerbals/both). This makes the game completely unplayable!"
• Playable?: Very.

I personally have suffered from the random CTDs, and while I find them annoying it will do me no good to complain on the forums. The devs would be able to spend a lot more time developing if they weren't stuck wading through complaints.

Yeah, this is amusingly true.

For me, I kind of did everything I felt like I wanted to do in the unmodded KSP. When the game was new to me I was able to accept the bugs and crashes a lot better, because I was still so distracted by, for instance, jetpacking a flag to Gilly or setting up a refueling operation on Minmus. But now I just want the base game to work, so that I can play around with the mods now that I can finally use all (or at least most of) the 16Gb of RAM on my machine. And the VAB crashes are just making it too frustrating to play.

But the good news (for me) is that by not playing KSP it led to me buying XCOM (2012 edition) and really getting into playing that. It's probably a sign that I really needed to set KSP aside for a while.

ps. I still miss Nertea's original Heat Control mod, which had a much more interesting thermal energy management system than what got implemented in stock 1.05+. But oh well.

[Codraroll]

The way this thread is going, I think one of the big issues is this:

Some people are fine with having a few bugs, but would shout at Squad for delaying updates.

Some people are fine with delayed updates, but would shout at Squad if they are released with bugs.

Either way, people shout at Squad.

 

It's not like the fan base is "unpleasable". No matter what decision the developers make, the majority of the fans will be pleased. But there will always be some who think they made the wrong decision, and won't hesitate to voice their discontent in the forums. And when the community has grown to a certain size, that vocal minority will be numerous enough to fill page after page in the devnote threads. Those who feel they can handle the occasional bug or CTD, or those who believe they will be fixed soon enough to not make a ruckus about it, they stay silent. But some of them would have been shouting if, say, an update was delayed or didn't have enough content, or something else entirely.

All changes will make some people upset. You can't please everybody. There will always be shouting, but from different people and for different reasons. Just know that most of us still enjoy this game, and think you're doing a good enough job. Always room for improvement, of course, but keep up the good work, and most of us will be pleased!

[TiktaalikDreaming]

2 hours ago, Codraroll said:

The way this thread is going, I think one of the big issues is this:

Some people are fine with having a few bugs, but would shout at Squad for delaying updates.

Some people are fine with delayed updates, but would shout at Squad if they are released with bugs.

Either way, people shout at Squad.

 

It's not like the fan base is "unpleasable". No matter what decision the developers make, the majority of the fans will be pleased. But there will always be some who think they made the wrong decision, and won't hesitate to voice their discontent in the forums. And when the community has grown to a certain size, that vocal minority will be numerous enough to fill page after page in the devnote threads. Those who feel they can handle the occasional bug or CTD, or those who believe they will be fixed soon enough to not make a ruckus about it, they stay silent. But some of them would have been shouting if, say, an update was delayed or didn't have enough content, or something else entirely.

All changes will make some people upset. You can't please everybody. There will always be shouting, but from different people and for different reasons. Just know that most of us still enjoy this game, and think you're doing a good enough job. Always room for improvement, of course, but keep up the good work, and most of us will be pleased!

You forgot the smaller subset who will complain regardless of choices.  But basically, you hit the nail on the head.  And it's a good rule of thumb for 99.99% of every forum regarding the development of anything (although I imagine the slice who aren't complaining varies).

[Kamuchi]

Any update regarding the orbital decay bug when not on rails? http://bugs.kerbalspaceprogram.com/issues/9619

Having stable orbits again would be great

[Padishar]

7 minutes ago, Kamuchi said:

Any update regarding the orbital decay bug when not on rails? http://bugs.kerbalspaceprogram.com/issues/9619

Having stable orbits again would be great

Perhaps wait a few hours for the devnotes...

[sysigy]

I read the devnotes every week and although the developments in KSP that are being made are great and I am very grateful for all the hard work the Squad devs put in, I am continually saddened with the lack of news for multiplayer support in KSP.  I had read nothing at all about it since the initial announcement that it is a feature that will be put in at some point and that some base framework for it had already been put in place.  I assume this is still the case or have I missed something somewhere that says there will be no multiplayer anymore?

Like I said, I am very grateful for all the hard work but to me multiplayer in KSP is what I am waiting for over any other update, the rest as important as they are, don't really add any new longevity to KSP in the same way having a multiplayer 'universe' would.

Apologies if I have missed some announcement that has stated multiplayer will not be happening.

Edited May 31, 2016 by sysigy

[Hodari]

13 minutes ago, sysigy said:

I read the devnotes every week and although the developments in KSP that are being made are great and I am very grateful for all the hard work the Squad devs put in, I am continually saddened with the lack of news for multiplayer support in KSP.  I had read nothing at all about it since the initial announcement that it is a feature that will be put in at some point and that some base framework for it had already been put in place.  I assume this is still the case or have I missed something somewhere that says there will be no multiplayer anymore?

If you haven't heard any more about it for a while, odds are that's because there isn't really any news about it.  They're probably still planning on doing it EVENTUALLY, but it's not a priority for them right now.  And while it may be important to you, I'd say it shouldn't be a priority either.  Right now, they need to fix the bugs and other issues with what is already in the game first.  Then some of the stuff like antenna updates that were promised for the last patch, but needed to be pushed back....I'll assume those are at least ALMOST ready to go now, so might as well finish that before another major project like multiplayer.  You probably won't hear too much more about that until it's at least close to being ready(or if it does get cancelled, you'll probably hear about that as well.)

[NathanKell]

8 hours ago, Kamuchi said:

Any update regarding the orbital decay bug when not on rails? http://bugs.kerbalspaceprogram.com/issues/9619

Having stable orbits again would be great

There...there's a whole thread.

 

[Kamuchi]

@NathanKell thanks for linking to it and explaining that it`s actually 2 bugs, can live with small weirdness in orbits just the rapid decaying and weird offset station parts tumbling is making me go insane

Looking forward to 1.1.3 and hope you guys can squash the old bug soon`ish