Kerbal Train Discussion

[Jimbo Jangles]

Wow, some amazing stuff in this thread. I love the restricted docking ports for coupling. I had a quick question, I was thinking claws might be a good coupler, because they are supposed to have some articulation after attaching. However, when tried attaching 2 rovers with a claw, it will not bend in the slightest. Have any of you tried using claws this way? I'll post some screenshots when I get back to my pc, on my phone right now. 

[Jimbo Jangles]

You can see there's no flex. I was wondering why it says status: locked in the right click menu, but I know it's set to free pivot, so it must mean the claw is locked into its target.

Next test is to try getting a longer lever arm for the junction, see if that does it. I'll come back with more screenshots when I'm done.

[pandaman]

Try selecting the free pivot again, it could just be a glitch.

[Jimbo Jangles]

16 minutes ago, pandaman said:

Try selecting the free pivot again, it could just be a glitch.

I tried reselecting, restarting ksp, bringing a different vehicle over. I'll be doing more testing in an hour or so, I've got a little QA checklist I'll be using. 

[pandaman]

It does seem odd, usually the claw pivots quite a lot.  So yeah, keep testing.

It may be worth putting together a very simple wheel and girder type train to check if it's a quirk with your design causing some issue, though it looks OK on the photos.

[Overland]

A little update on this thread less about KSP so much as a resource.. I found accidently when searching for blueprints on the more conventional type fairground land trains..

 

it would seem a french design known as the Renard land train was in service throughout the world from 1900s upto around 1920s.. from australia, egypt, india and suchlike..

its design I tested in KSP and.. in a wonderful everything old is new again ideal. it actually worked better than the trains ive had previously..

on further research it appears a few were owned by actual railway companies as an extension of their non rail reaching operations.. passengers and freight respectively

the design seems unique in that the center wheel of each wagon is fixed and driven by the prime mover of the locomotive.. although reports differ between some kind of gearing and electric power via generation.. which seems more likely.. the front and rear wheels turn as a conventional steering trailer as mentioned in this thread a little earlier

one of these old girls was actually found in a ghost town in australia in the 1970s, it would appear a few still exist preserved and operational..

it bears a resemblence to the one used in the boer war and world war 1 but im not sure if its the same rig or just similar.. interesting none the less

 

From a KSP Point of view.. their real world operation and failures of the design mirrors oftern seen problems in KSP land trains.. the ever present cutting of corners of the rear wagons, tail whip and suchlike.. would seem arnt a failing of KSP or our designs at all.. but were actually something to be mindful of on these real world examples..

 

a comforting and disturbing thought all the same

 

it has inspired me too, to branch out from pure fuel delivery trains and create a more multi purpose train.. while this one doesnt have the center wheels, shes become a capable impressive train.. full torque at 8m/s.. a maximum speed of 21m/s and a safe cruise of around 17. much different from her small medium range sister trains.. at this point my systems weakness is playing a part in train length more than actual practicality

 

I'l update this section as I learn more, its an evolving chapter in land train history im slowly finding out more on that im sure will be as helpful to others as me

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BadLeo]

Sorry if this is necroposting, but rather than making a new thread to ask I would prefer to keep the discussion with the folks that already are into that. What about this mod: https://spacedock.info/mod/946/Train Parts Pack ? Have anyone of you tried it yet? I searched and there is no forum thread for it, so, no pics and no explanation other than what is on Spacedock.

[ShawnPhillips]

5 hours ago, BadLeo said:

Sorry if this is necroposting, but rather than making a new thread to ask I would prefer to keep the discussion with the folks that already are into that. What about this mod: https://spacedock.info/mod/946/Train Parts Pack ? Have anyone of you tried it yet? I searched and there is no forum thread for it, so, no pics and no explanation other than what is on Spacedock.

I tried out the Train parts mod, It only added 4 parts (the mod claimed 6 but I could only find 4 in my parts list), the node snapping to attach the train cab to the base didn't work and there are no included parts for hitching train cars and no wheels. the parts also had some low quality models and textures as well. A bit disappointing. I did see a post on reddit about a stock hitch that uses the magnetic properties of docking ports and a structural piece to hold then just far enough apart to prevent a connection. Not sure how strong it would be for heavy loads or high speed cornering, but I will do some testing. I was using a combination of Infernal Robotics swivels and the trailer hitch part from RoverDudes Buffalo rover mod to make hitches in 1.1. so until IR updates to 1.2 I will be taking a leave from train development.

Edited October 19, 2016 by ShawnPhillips

[BadLeo]

 

17 hours ago, ShawnPhillips said:

I tried out the Train parts mod, It only added 4 parts (the mod claimed 6 but I could only find 4 in my parts list), the node snapping to attach the train cab to the base didn't work and there are no included parts for hitching train cars and no wheels. the parts also had some low quality models and textures as well. A bit disappointing. I did see a post on reddit about a stock hitch that uses the magnetic properties of docking ports and a structural piece to hold then just far enough apart to prevent a connection. Not sure how strong it would be for heavy loads or high speed cornering, but I will do some testing. I was using a combination of Infernal Robotics swivels and the trailer hitch part from RoverDudes Buffalo rover mod to make hitches in 1.1. so until IR updates to 1.2 I will be taking a leave from train development.

Thanks for the report. Also, there's an experimental version of IR for 1.2, already. It's only the plugin, you have to keep the parts from the previous version. Still, it seems to be working all right - for an experimental release.

The connections between carts can be made using free washers and a structural piece. Theoretically, at least, I haven't tried it.

[ShawnPhillips]

Thanks for letting me know there is a 1.2 experimental update for IR, I'll try it out.  I do have a backup of my 1.1.3 KSP install, so I should still have all the IR parts without needing to redownload. I'll get some pics to share of the flexible hitch I used with IR. It involved freemoving hinges with a custom config to give a spring tension to then so they will spring back to a neutral position when not in use.

[life_on_venus]

You know, making basic parts (a 1.25m cylinder for a generator for example) isn't that hard, just time consuming.

From there you can add your own config files to add resource generators, for example turning "liquidfuel" into "torque units" and then using that resource to drive your own (or modded stock) wheels.

I may (read: won't ever) do a little bit of this if I ever feel like it, I modded the stock rover wheels once to work the same way. I couldn't get custom sounds to work which is why I haven't really done anything further with it.

[Overland]

19 hours ago, BadLeo said:

 

Thanks for the report. Also, there's an experimental version of IR for 1.2, already. It's only the plugin, you have to keep the parts from the previous version. Still, it seems to be working all right - for an experimental release.

The connections between carts can be made using free washers and a structural piece. Theoretically, at least, I haven't tried it.

Thanks for this @BadLeo its not necroposting at all given this is a train thread

 

Many thanks for the update..the inability of the docking free turning washer to work in 1.2 was what stalled my.own trains likewise even when wheels became stable finally

i.used them for steering drawbars as mentioned previously

 

I love to.see a proper flexable coupling though looking to get back into land trains tonight

 

I did download the IR beta but it contained no parts? Is it ment to apply to the part set to get them all working?

[Overland]

15 hours ago, life_on_venus said:

You know, making basic parts (a 1.25m cylinder for a generator for example) isn't that hard, just time consuming.

From there you can add your own config files to add resource generators, for example turning "liquidfuel" into "torque units" and then using that resource to drive your own (or modded stock) wheels.

I may (read: won't ever) do a little bit of this if I ever feel like it, I modded the stock rover wheels once to work the same way. I couldn't get custom sounds to work which is why I haven't really done anything further with it.

Thats how my 44 class have run for years..its a delicate balence i keep having to reset and find the sweet spot in the power curve after each version though

Wheels are modded to accept monoprop from the modified minijet alternator..it takes alot to find the ballence..testing..trial and error.. But eventually the units syncronise enough to provide a realistic power and torque transmission thats dictated by engine RPM..engauged either by my steeringwheel pedal or trim acting as the reverser

 

Its not strictly by the numbers though and requires 2 engines for some reason even with the numbers the same on a single alternator.. But the end goal was always the same..

Locomotive climbing a hill with engine at full warcry..generators running hot creating a beautiful emotional battle between terrain..tollerences of the locomotive..sheer luck and driver experience

 

Sometimes it ended badly..but a proper diesel electric like transmission in ksp writes its own legends and I encourage any serious drivers to try similar..its one of the best experiences in gaming

[BadLeo]

4 hours ago, Overland said:

I did download the IR beta but it contained no parts? Is it ment to apply to the part set to get them all working?

It's only the plugin, the parts are the same of the previous version.

Also, DMagic has a modlet called Flexible Docking - it hasn't much flexibility due to game limitations, but still... - that you might be aware of already. With some cleverness and ingenuity it may come to be of use on building trains...

[life_on_venus]

I made a 3 car train with ball joints yesterday, by using stayputniks inside structural fuselages. I'll post pics when I'm home next week

EDIT

http://imgur.com/a/dWxUX

Edited October 23, 2016 by life_on_venus
Added pics

[Overland]

Ohh interesting..post pics when you can..video would be great too

11 hours ago, BadLeo said:

It's only the plugin, the parts are the same of the previous version.

Also, DMagic has a modlet called Flexible Docking - it hasn't much flexibility due to game limitations, but still... - that you might be aware of already. With some cleverness and ingenuity it may come to be of use on building trains...

Thanks mate i didnt see your first post.

Had a strange situation where the parts were empty in the legacy folders but i think it was my failing

One thing im considering for bogeys (trucks) is would it be possible to make a thing similar to the free docking washer but act like that nose wheel landing gear in that it rotates left and right according to input of axis? 

Akin to putting an attachment node on a steerable landing gear?

It has some uses for articulated vehicle steering and trains..one of the sno trains used a mid loco articulation joint similar to say a front end loader or case quadtrac

 

(yep i play farming sim too )

[Madrias]

My generalized hitching layout is more like trucks and trailers, to be fair.  I put a swivel somewhere near the rear wheel/ set of wheels and run that back to my trailing units.  Seems to work rather well for me, by playing off of inherent stability.  I'm not swiveling behind the drive unit, thereby when I turn left, I don't buck the first car to the right and then yank it to the left, it just follows me.

I know, not very train-like, but it's been functional for me.

[Overland]

Its train like dotto type land trains use 4 wheel or 2 wheel steering the same way .as do multi wagon ore road trains

 

Its a misconception that kerbal trains that currently run on land must be railway in practise..keeping in mind we have over 100 years of realworld land train existance in history on our own world..some detailed in this thread some pages back

Then theres the whole...its kerbal..factor..nasa and suchlike didnt and hasnt done 3/4 of the things kerbals have done but rockets are still rockets and planes still planes

Land trains in KSP are as train like as thier spacefaring cousins.. 

All proudly kerbal

Edited October 22, 2016 by Overland

[Overland]

Happy to say that Infernal Robotics core + legacy parts do indeed work as stated although switching back to the old stock + sam hall's Kerbonov KN-2 cockpit combination presented its challenges vs rover derived land trains of recent.. I had to go back to the steering drawbar ideal which at first was incompatable with a 40 class diesel electric locomotive, Thankfully ive found a decent solution borrowing from a rather retro early on landliner design from 2014.. but alas like much in the world, what is old is new again when certain challenges or needs present themselves

Stable at 40m/s and pure passenger carrying train propelled by ye-olde type jets.. each carriage has its front wheelset steered by the leading unit before it (or locomotive

steerings perfectly with a steering wheel.. but easy to drive with keyboard by enabling rear wheels on the locomotive to steer (inverted) gives wide sweeping gentle turns using just a keyboard.. oddly enough something I never tried before

might help someone looking for inspiration so i'll post pics

The key factor in this is the Infernal Robotics docking washer (free turning) and the fact that the front truss of each wheelset isn't actually attached to the underside of the carriage but free to pivot naturally

sure its not as pleasant as the detriot diesel chug of the more advanced locomotives in my fleet in the past, nor does it have any legend surrounding the design.. but its borrowed heritage and stability at speed is sure to mean this 50 kerbal snake of death will have a decent life of operation...

before a new train has to perform the all too familiar funeral service and rescue recovery operations in its wake

Note the truss vs wheel position

 

And extreme example of the articulation during an accident rollback ( suspension all set to 0 dampening and 2 stiffness)

Underway

AND Just for historic purposes a late 2014 early 2015 design from my steam screenshots.. The Herritage of this unit, a 4th generation landliner

Back when docking ports were flexable

 

 

Edited October 22, 2016 by Overland

[Moesly_Armlis]

I like trains!

This was back in 1.0.5 and made a passenger train and drove it out to the beach.  The engine of the train deploys a packaged rocket that is assembled, erected and launched from the beach.  The engine and rocket courier is re attached and is set to return.to KSC.

The most time consuming was trying to place the wheels to avoid drift.  As the train approched 10 m/s the train would drift one way or another off the runway.  I wanted to film this as a continuous shot and driving slowly was not my cup of tea.  Tweaking the wheels back and forth over the COM of the rocket courier fixed the problem.  Now with the new wheels in 1.2 I am considering another train build.

Edited October 22, 2016 by MoeslyArmlis

[Overland]

I love how you mounted the wheels on I-beams very graceful in motion..im on my phone right now so theres only so much detail I can see sadly

Wheels stablised mostly now although suspension needs to be tweaked a little manually.. Dampning is the enemy of trains..and too little makes you seasick as it mexican waves through the train

Ive suspected this newfangled unity suspension was never designed with trains in mind..a likewise fear I sometimes have about Kerbal Train program with that whole "space" thing

 

It works much much better than before though once tuned in.almost 1.0 wheel capability

Im using the ever popular edited and repainted M1s so i cant say how well the new landing gear goes

Ill check back on my pc tonight

[life_on_venus]

Posted the pictures in my original reply

[Pr0ph3t]

Hi everyone !

Hope this is the right place, I downloaded RobForest's Train Part pack, but I'm not quite sure how I"m supposed to lay out tracks and make vehicles 'stick' to them. Documentation is sparse unfortunately. Anybody know ?

 

https://spacedock.info/mod/946/Train Parts Pack

Edited May 6, 2017 by Pr0ph3t