Need help with my spaceplane/shuttle

[Pandavoc]

 

Hi, I am a intermediate KSP player and am currently building my own space station, around earth for now. I got the first piece into a nice orbit by just launching it like most people do. I decided to do something a bit more exciting and harder and try to make a space shuttle where I could put parts of my station into, launch into space attached to rockets/boosters and glide it back down to earth and land it. I have designed a prototype of my spaceplane going with a similar design in a youtube video I saw. I cannot seem to maintain control of it though as it likes to turn on the runway or spin out of control mid-air. Was wondering if you guys had any tips/tricks and saw any flaws in my design and could help me out. I am just testing it out at the spaceplane hanger currently and plan to launch it vertically like a shuttle.

 

 

[bewing]

With an MK1 cockpit, you a probably doomed on reentry. The tip of the nose gets too hot and the thing blows. An MK1 command pod with a small nosecone would probably work a lot better.

The monoprop tanks add drag at the front. That is bad. Move them around the back end of your ship.

Reaction wheels! Do you have any hidden in that cargo bay? It sounds like the answer is no. Put one or two advanced ones behind the command pod!

You are going to need a little electricity. One solar panel would do.

 

[Pandavoc]

I ended up adding a few things like you said, a different command pod and the nose cone stabilizer and another advanced one behind it. I took the front wings off because there was too much lift at the front end. I also do have solar panels they are just packed inside for when we get into space to get a bit of power while unloading and the batteries are in there also, as seen in the new pics I am posting. It still likes to flip out of control but it is a bit more stable now. Still wondering what I am doing wrong, I have a feeling it might have to do with the wings, maybe I have to make my own? Not sure yet, any more help would be appreciated! I tried to take a picture of it flying where you can see how it is spinning out of control with the smoke or whatever in the sky behind it. I also moved the RCS tanks to the back.

 

 

[Boris-Barboris]

1 hour ago, Pandavoc said:

Still wondering what I am doing wrong

Just add a tail fin, clip it in if don't like the looks. Otherwise it's fine.

Edited June 27, 2016 by Boris-Barboris

[kiwi1960]

Firstly.... it looks like a winner, the plane, I mean, apart from moving the mono near to the rear and adding a tail, try this...

If its running off the runway, your wheels cannot take the weight, add more...

And when taking off... Use rapiers, rockets at take off might be too powerful for the frame.

Put a canard near the front of the plane...

[bewing]

You definitely did need the canards on the front -- the ones you had produced lift, but there are others that do not. Try putting the canards back, but use tailfins or the AV-R8s instead.

I'm not sure if having an actual tailfin at the back end will help or not -- I'm guessing that it won't.

[Hodari]

2 hours ago, bewing said:

With an MK1 cockpit, you a probably doomed on reentry. The tip of the nose gets too hot and the thing blows. An MK1 command pod with a small nosecone would probably work a lot better.

The Mk1 Inline cockpit with a shielded docking port in front should also work.

[GwynJHawke]

Humorous answer: add more boosters.

Serious answer: I'd add some tail fins and double check and make sure you wheels are aligned properly. The cockpit is also a concern. The Mk.1 cockpit has a low max heat level, and the nose takes the brunt of the heat shock. You might be able to get away with it depending on how high you point the nose during re-entry, but that depends on the size and amount of control surfaces you have.

[Jimbo Jangles]

Hi Panda!

First I would add a tailfin, even without a rudder control it will help stabilize your plane. 

I also see in the screenshot that you're losing control early in the flight, at less than 1km altitude. If a tailfin won't help, check if you set your control surfaces for only one axis each. In other words, did you open the right-click menu for your ailerons/canards and make sure they only operate on one of the three choices: pitch, yaw, or roll? If a control surface operates on two or more axes it becomes difficult to maintain any attitude. 

[eddiew]

7 hours ago, Jimbo Jangles said:

First I would add a tailfin, even without a rudder control it will help stabilize your plane. 

That would be my suggestion too. You've got an axis without any aerodynamic stabilisers on it, I'm not surprised it's... unstable. Also, those 4 monoprop tanks at the front are probably rather draggy, especially when angled into the airstream.

If you're having woes on the runway, well, I hate to say it, but welcome to 1.1.x. Runway donuts have become the bane of my life and unfortunately aren't likely to disappear before 1.2   But it is expected that they will disappear in 1.2, what with a new version of the Unity engine that specifically addresses wheel issues  

*edit* Also... I would be inclined to switch the forward wings for actual canards. No matter which way you point those front control surfaces, they're going to be fighting the main wings atm.

Edited June 28, 2016 by eddiew

[Van Disaster]

Mk1 cockpits are fine for spaceplanes, just have to take it easy on re-entry & not plunge in like you're flying a capsule. Adding an antenna as a "shock device" is a bit of a hack for heating, but that works too.

Fixed canards are fine, you can have as many sets of wings as you like providing the aerocentre is in the right place. IRL that will move around in all sorts of interesting ways ( and there will be some rather fun wing interaction ) if you did have multiple wings, but I doubt it does anything in stock aero.

Edited June 28, 2016 by Van Disaster

[Just Jim]

Something I'm seeing, maybe I'm wrong, but it looks like your CoL is slightly lower than your CoM.  You might want to bring your wings up a touch, or angle them up slightly, to raise your CoL a little higher than your CoM.

 

6 minutes ago, Van Disaster said:

Mk1 cockpits are fine for spaceplanes, just have to take it easy on re-entry & not plunge in like you're flying a capsule. Adding an antenna as a "shock device" is a bit of a hack for heating, but that works too.

Throwing a radiator on the bottom of the cockpit also helps a lot.

Edited June 28, 2016 by Just Jim

[ForScience6686]

Far to much mono prop.  You shouldn't need that much for orbital operations that you describe and they cause far too much drag.  The cockpit setup isn't ideal but I'm guessing your dealing with a tech limit.  The tail fin is a must for better stability.  I'd also guys you have to much control authority with that elevator setup.  You don't want too much control on a space plane.  You want slow steady adjustments so you don't lose velocity during adjustments.  Lastly, I angle the wings up on space planes, haven't had much luck with the negative angles.