Replacing Laythe

[Vysionone]

I sort of want Laythe to be replaced with a volcanic body like Io's, with the same diameter and same gravity.

[Van Disaster]

That was the original idea for Laythe. I guess it's too entrenched as "that other place for jets" now, and to be honest it's fun as it is.

[worir4]

Wat???! Laythe must stay! A home a way from home is irreplaceable. However a volcanic moon or planet would be cool but leave Laythe as it is.

[Vysionone]

Just now, Van Disaster said:

That was the original idea for Laythe. I guess it's too entrenched as "that other place for jets" now, and to be honest it's fun as it is.

I wonder if it could keep its atmosphere and its reputation.

1 minute ago, worir4 said:

Wat???! Laythe must stay! A home a way from home is irreplaceable. However a volcanic moon or planet would be cool but leave Laythe as it is.

Maybe make a new one in a Callisto-esque orbit?

[Ozymandias_the_Goat]

NOOOOOOO!!!! Not Laythe! It would be cool just add a new moon to the Joolian system. It's been unchanged for years. 

[AlamoVampire]

I think that'd be neat...well adding a new moon that is

Edited July 8, 2016 by AlamoVampire

[OrbitalBuzzsaw]

I like the "volcanic moon" idea, but DO NOT REPLACE LAYTHE! I think that they should change Vall into this, it's really boring

[Wjolcz]

It was the original idea, but NovaSilisko had some issues with lava IIRC.

IMO Laythe should stay. Maybe not very realistic but one of my favourite moons. It's also fun to fly jets there.

[KerikBalm]

If laythe is replaced, we need another place that feels home-ish:

I have some ideas in mind:

Volcanic you said?

(before I added the greenery at lower altitudes)

 

But where to put it? I have this mars-with-oceans planet at kerbin's L4... but we could also make Duna more laythe like:

 

I think for gameplay reasons we need another placed where airbreathers can work... if not we at least need air augmented rockets/turborockets/etc... rockets that get a benefit from the presence of atmosphere, even if there is no O2.

Still I like laythe though. I love having a colony by the sea, blueish skies, with a gas giant overhead.

We could add another moon inside laythe's orbit, really close to jool, and make that one volcanic

[Van Disaster]

I've been flying lf/o prop engines around Eve for quite a while; diesel engines which use inert atmosphere & mix oxygen in have been around for some decades ( some WW2 U-boats tried it, using argon initially & then the exhaust ).  I was actually looking at air-augmented rockets not that long ago, but there's not really much in the way of concrete examples, and like most of these things I think it's mostly small missile propulsion.

Laythe needs a special scatterer config with some crazy atmospheric effects.

Edited July 9, 2016 by Van Disaster

[SpacedCowboy]

12 hours ago, Van Disaster said:

That was the original idea for Laythe. I guess it's too entrenched as "that other place for jets" now, and to be honest it's fun as it is.

Uhmm,,, I sort of totally agree!

[pandaman]

I'm all in favour of new places to visit, but removing, replacing or significantly changing existing ones is not a good idea, think of all those broken saves etc....

Adding extra moons to Jool, or anywhere else,  yes why not?  Enhancing the planets and moons that we have already should probably come first though.

[OrbitalBuzzsaw]

On July 8, 2016 at 6:47 PM, KerikBalm said:

If laythe is replaced, we need another place that feels home-ish:

I have some ideas in mind:

Volcanic you said?

(before I added the greenery at lower altitudes)

 

But where to put it? I have this mars-with-oceans planet at kerbin's L4... but we could also make Duna more laythe like:

 

I think for gameplay reasons we need another placed where airbreathers can work... if not we at least need air augmented rockets/turborockets/etc... rockets that get a benefit from the presence of atmosphere, even if there is no O2.

Still I like laythe though. I love having a colony by the sea, blueish skies, with a gas giant overhead.

We could add another moon inside laythe's orbit, really close to jool, and make that one volcanic

GIVE ME THOSE PLANETS NOW

[THX1138]

What's the reason for the suggestion to remove Lathe rather than just add another moon or planet? Why Lathe specifically and not any other?

[HoloYolo]

Replace Vall. Vall is boring as hell and the only interesting thing is Vallhenge. Honestly Laythe is Kerbin 2.0 and I don't think replacing it is a good idea.

[cantab]

Yeah, Laythe is very distinctive as it is.

But idea: Add new NotIo as Jool's innermost moon. Rearrange NotIo, Laythe, and Vall into the Laplace resonance, and move Tylo further out not in the resonance. That might make the system theoretically stable; currently it's known to not be. It would also make Tylo assists to depart the system easier to work out; currently the orbital resonance makes a nuisance of itself when you want to go home.

[The_Rocketeer]

Wouldn't it be cool to have 'active' volcanoes on Laythe? Mantle activity could help explain why all that water is, well, wet.

[Whirligig Girl]

Or we could make Laythe actually volcanic.

 

A more yellowstone-park-like Laythe. More fitting of the volcanically active ocean moon. Working volcanoes would just take the cake.

 

The yellowstone-like Laythe is based upon what @NovaSilisko has talked about what he'd like Laythe to look like. A Planet-Wide Yellowstone.

 

Kerbal Space Program's solar system doesn't have to be a carbon copy of our own solar system, after all. We have a purple Eve with metal oceans, not a white cloudy Venus with dull orange rocks. We have a red planet with thick ice caps and a massive moon. We have a gas giant colonized by algae. (which is itself more similar in physical characteristics to Saturn than Jupiter (similar size and surface gravity, even the contrast of the cloud banding) Why not an ocean moon instead of a dead pizza-colored volcano planet?

Edited July 10, 2016 by GregroxMun

[Brownhair2]

Yeah, I'm on the boat with everyone saying Laythe can be a jet place and still be volcanic (get it? because laythe has water and boats go on water? ok i'll leave...)

[Kerbalstar]

I agree with everyone saying Laythe should be left alone but if you really want a volcanic Lay the there's a mod for that , Lava Laythe  (Link),

Kerbalstar

[Van Disaster]

2 hours ago, cantab said:

Yeah, Laythe is very distinctive as it is.

But idea: Add new NotIo as Jool's innermost moon. Rearrange NotIo, Laythe, and Vall into the Laplace resonance, and move Tylo further out not in the resonance. That might make the system theoretically stable; currently it's known to not be. It would also make Tylo assists to depart the system easier to work out; currently the orbital resonance makes a nuisance of itself when you want to go home.

Would anyone who knows how to set planets up ( I have zero experience with Kopernicus ) like to see how well this works in practice? maybe just try a volcanic Minmus as a trial.

Presumably Laythe is mostly metallic, I'm imagining some sort of bow wave aurora given how close it is to Jool... that and a lot of electrical storms. *That* needs adding.

Edited July 10, 2016 by Van Disaster

[electricpants]

I think we should make Laythe more like Io, what with a thin atmosphere and extreme volcanic activity and no oceans, and turn Vall into the new Laythe! Give Vall an atmosphere and sum oceans and make it a tad bit bigger, and you've got Laythe all over again! Although I do admit it won't have the same feeling as being on Laythe. 

Also maybe give Vall a sub-moon, say something the size of Hale from OPM, really close to Vall if this will ever happen, which it likely will never happen ever.

[NovaSilisko]

1 hour ago, Van Disaster said:

Presumably Laythe is mostly metallic, I'm imagining some sort of bow wave aurora given how close it is to Jool... that and a lot of electrical storms. *That* needs adding.

Enveloped in clouds flashing with lightning, the air laden heavily with noxious volcanic gases. Only occasionally do the clouds break to reveal glimpses of the surface below - either the greenish, choppy ocean, or yellow and white and red landscapes of rock and sand peppered with everything from hot springs and geysers to active volcanoes, every square inch radioactive from the intense radiation belts of Jool.

That is Laythe.

[Wjolcz]

2 hours ago, NovaSilisko said:

Enveloped in clouds flashing with lightning, the air laden heavily with noxious volcanic gases. Only occasionally do the clouds break to reveal glimpses of the surface below - either the greenish, choppy ocean, or yellow and white and red landscapes of rock and sand peppered with everything from hot springs and geysers to active volcanoes, every square inch radioactive from the intense radiation belts of Jool.

That is Laythe.

Makes me wish you were back in the dev team again.

[KerikBalm]

laythe wouldn't be radioative from Jool radiation.

There is a big difference between radioactive, and radiation.

Jools magnetic field would trap protons, electrons, and ionized helium from the solar wind.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta_particle This won't cause any induced radioactivity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_particle This is just ionized helium, it won't make laythe radioactive.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proton This won't make laythe radioactive

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutron_radiation Only this would transmute stable isotopes into radioactive isotopes... but guess what, this sort of radiation isn't trapped by magnetic fields, this doesn't get concentrated in radiation belts.

The only reason for laythe to be radioactive, is if it formed with a high proportion of heavy elements like thorium and uranium. Indeed, billions of years ago the Earth was quite radioactive. Most of that nasty stuff sunk to the core. The natural fission reactors stopped working, etc. If laythe is a mostly rocky world, then its core could be radioactive, explaining some of the heating (tidal forces also playing a role). And I suppose some of that core material could get to the surface through volcanism and elevate levels... but I doubt it would be very bad. Its not like earthly volcanoes are particularly radioactive. Granite on Earth is radioactive, but the amounts are so small that basically no one worries about putting granite countertops in their kitchen.

Jools radiation belts have no bearing at all on Laythe's environment being radioactive or not. While Laythe's magnetic field would be overwhelmed by Jools, that thick atmosphere should still provide ample protection, and the surface of laythe should be benign in terms of radiation.

Feel free to have all kinds of noxious gasses present that prevent kerbals from breathing despite the presence of O2