Best Decision I've Ever Made!

[SilverWolf]

Evening, fellas!

This topic has absolutely no contributory value to the community whatsoever (save for the obvious availability of morale support, and older versions of our favourite modifications.)

While I applaud Squad's work in (finally) upgrading to Unity 5...  Y'know what?  They can keep it.

I just downgraded to KSP 1.0.5., and brother, let me tell you...  BEST.  DECISION.  EVER.    Not only do all of my modifications work again, but I can actually land a plane on a runway without it exploding!  Me!  An airline pilot!  What a true novelty!  I can't wait to actually land on the Mun, again!

I think, to celebrate, I'm going to build a big-assed black pickup-truck, and I'm going to go carve doughnuts into the face of Duna.

Welp, anyway, that's all I wanted to share.  Peace out home slices and brotein shakes!

[regex]

Good for you.

[The_Rocketeer]

3 minutes ago, Verran said:

I can actually land a plane on a runway without it exploding!  Me!  An airline pilot!  What a true novelty!

Er, which airline is that? (#neverflyingbudgetagain)

[kBob]

Well I can land in 1.1.3 without exploding...maybe its because I've only ever been a virtual pilot (not counting the times my parents let me handle the yoke when I was like six).

[Bill Phil]

I can land just fine without exploding. Even land on the Mun and come back. The game just randomly crashes, but not during flight.

[Brownhair2]

Frankly the worst times I've had with the landing gear has been when I've been testing using HyperEdit. And the few times when it wasn't it didn't jeopardize the mission

[EliasDanger]

its not going to seem like a good decision when youre trying to put a space station together at .5 fps

[Rocket In My Pocket]

11 hours ago, Verran said:

This topic has absolutely no contributory value to the community whatsoever

Welp...that's one thing we can agree on.

[Mister Kerman]

Yeah I donno about all these "can't-land" shenanigans, but I have a lot of trouble not doing donuts and wobbling on the runway taking off...

[Agathos]

I had more trouble veering sideways on the runway in 1.0.x, so much that I gave up on spaceplanes. It still happens sometimes in 1.1.x, but I find it's easier to fix.

[Mjarf]

I rarely build planes anyway, and I enjoy the significant performance boost in 1.1.x, and my favorite mods work very well in 1.1.3, so I'm quite happy. Once they fix the landing wheels KSP will be extra awesome.

[Bigbootie]

Every time I see one of the can't land or take off posts it makes me want to see a screenshot of the offending plane. I don't deny the wheels are glitchy and badly need a fix but they function fine most of the time for me. You can take a look at all the screens of my numerous flights around Kerbin in my profile. Took off and landed all of them manually.(i don't use Mechjeb) I do crash sometimes but it's pretty much my fault every time. 

 

[jedensuscg]

I had a few issues with the smallest gear in 1.1 that was fixable with changing some wheel tweakables, but not having any problems anymore. All my flying issue arise from building crappy planes and struggling with the keyboard based controls, though the mouse flight mod works wonders. 

It is worth noting I am not a pilot but am a Navigator and aircrew, flew Falcon 20`s and c130's for a few hours and have landed airplanes in the simulators (the real multi million dollar ones) and I agree with the OP, landing a C130 in a sim was FAAAR easier then landing anything I have built in KSP, but the key phrase here is 'I built'...so not sure if it's the game or my unengineering

[worir4]

15 hours ago, EliasDanger said:

its not going to seem like a good decision when youre trying to put a space station together at .5 fps

This is so true. For me, the performance updates from the 1.1 updates made up for the bugs that also came with the updates including the flimsy wheels, but if you like 1.0.5 that's cool. Enjoy playing. =)

[Snark]

21 hours ago, Verran said:

I just downgraded to KSP 1.0.5., and brother, let me tell you...  BEST.  DECISION.  EVER.    Not only do all of my modifications work again, but I can actually land a plane on a runway without it exploding!

The claim of "1.1.3 is bad because can't land planes" would have a bit more weight if we could see a screenshot of the plane itself.

The rules have changed.  I'm a greenhorn at airplanes, but I can land just fine in 1.1.3... if I am following the new rules, which basically boil down to "use bigger gear than you used to."

Going back to 1.0.5 because you're unwilling to adapt to the new rules is your prerogative, of course... but that's more a statement about your personal preferences than about 1.1.3 itself.

Of course, it's possible that you've got a legitimate gripe and are being bitten by some 1.1.3 bug that I've never seen myself and have never had problems landing a plane with, rather than a design problem with your airplane.  But without a screenshot, it's impossible to know which.

[Alshain]

4 minutes ago, Snark said:

The claim of "1.1.3 is bad because can't land planes" would have a bit more weight if we could see a screenshot of the plane itself.

The rules have changed.  I'm a greenhorn at airplanes, but I can land just fine in 1.1.3... if I am following the new rules, which basically boil down to "use bigger gear than you used to."

Going back to 1.0.5 because you're unwilling to adapt to the new rules is your prerogative, of course... but that's more a statement about your personal preferences than about 1.1.3 itself.

Of course, it's possible that you've got a legitimate gripe and are being bitten by some 1.1.3 bug that I've never seen myself and have never had problems landing a plane with, rather than a design problem with your airplane.  But without a screenshot, it's impossible to know which.

Oh come on now, the problems with the wheels in 1.1.x are well documented.  To try and claim it's simply a change in the rules is absurd when Squad has said themselves that they are a problem.  I know you have been around long enough to know these are actual issues, whether you have them or not.

[Snark]

3 minutes ago, Alshain said:

Oh come on now, the problems with the wheels in 1.1.x are well documented.  To try and claim it's simply a change in the rules is absurd when Squad has said themselves that they are a problem.  I know you have been around long enough to know these are actual issues, whether you have them or not.

Not saying there are no problems.  Just that those problems aren't universal.  There are people who have problems with genuine bugs, and people who have problems because they're not adapting to the new rules and are therefore designing their planes wrong.

The problem is that the former category of problem tends to get conflated with the latter.  All I'm saying is, it's not possible to tell which category the OP is in without seeing a screenshot of the ship.  If he's got a 30-ton plane trying to land on three small landing gear, for example, then that's his problem, not KSP's.

[Alshain]

9 minutes ago, Snark said:

Not saying there are no problems.  Just that those problems aren't universal.  There are people who have problems with genuine bugs, and people who have problems because they're not adapting to the new rules and are therefore designing their planes wrong.

The problem is that the former category of problem tends to get conflated with the latter.  All I'm saying is, it's not possible to tell which category the OP is in without seeing a screenshot of the ship.  If he's got a 30-ton plane trying to land on three small landing gear, for example, then that's his problem, not KSP's.

I see what your saying, I thought he was saying that his plane was landing out of control and blowing up, but I haven't played 1.1 in so long, I forgot they added that stress thing that makes the landing gear explode.  The way he words it, it still sounds like he's out of control and slamming into things/rolling over though, which is definitely not an intended change.

Edited July 10, 2016 by Alshain

[martinborgen]

Never had any wheel stress problems ever? What are you doing? 

[Snark]

1 hour ago, Alshain said:

The way he words it, it still sounds like he's out of control and slamming into things/rolling over though, which is definitely not an intended change.

It's hard to tell.

I had total airplane trouble (i.e. couldn't land at all) at first with 1.1.x, since I didn't get the memo about the wheel-strength thing and therefore had no clue that my airplane was way overweight for its gear.  When I would land, it wasn't super obvious that "gear was exploding" was the problem, just from looking at it:  the visual experience was "hey, my plane flipped out and went kablooie".  I had to look at the F3 log to determine that "the gear got destroyed" was the first link in the chain of destruction.

"Check F3 to see what actually happened" is a good idea, and lots of players know about it... but not everyone does.  So it's not clear to me, just from what the OP has posted, whether the problem is a bug or else a gear-overloading thing.

[Mister Kerman]

I'm with Snark about being able to work around landing gear for landing, but the "Runway shimmy" is irritating. You can't account for that when designing a plane. I should be able to place my gear the traditional way based off of clearance, CoM, and lift/speed required. The thing should drive straight down the runway.

 

I shouldn't be at the mercy of a bug to get airborne. Landings I can do gently so I don't mind the overstress issue, but the wobble at the very least needs to eventually get fixed.

[Alshain]

28 minutes ago, Mister Kerman said:

I'm with Snark about being able to work around landing gear for landing, but the "Runway shimmy" is irritating. You can't account for that when designing a plane. I should be able to place my gear the traditional way based off of clearance, CoM, and lift/speed required. The thing should drive straight down the runway.

 

I shouldn't be at the mercy of a bug to get airborne. Landings I can do gently so I don't mind the overstress issue, but the wobble at the very least needs to eventually get fixed.

I never did figure out what the 'shimmy' description referred to.  I think that term was used to describe several issues.  There is a spring/damper issue that causes the small gear to oscillate and the sliders don't really help much.  I think that was reduced or fixed in 1.1.3, though.  I think the biggest wheel issue that most everyone playing 1.0.5 is waiting to get fixed is the fact that the plane either veers off the runway on takeoff/landing or just does donuts on the runway, usually resulting in wing strike.  This issue can't really be worked around very easily, what workarounds you can do to reduce the problem with the friction, spring, and damper sliders seem to follow no logical progression (none that I have seen anyway) so you have to guess randomly with each plane at what the settings should be.

The "issue" @Snark is referring to is a new design requirement that requires you to 1. Use appropriate wheels for the size of the aircraft, and 2. Land at lower vertical speeds.... like real planes do (i.e. glide it in for a nice smooth touchdown).  Of course I never think of that as a bug, it's not really, as Snark said it's a rule change.  I'm just guessing, but while there may be some complaints about it, I don't think that is the biggest reason for the people that won't use 1.1.

Edited July 11, 2016 by Alshain

[Xavven]

I will admit... the wheels in 1.0.5 were bad, and with Squad spending a year upgrading to the new engine and half the dev notes talking about all the wheel "improvements" we were going to see, like suspensions, Ackermann steering, and so on, I sorta kinda expected the wheels were going to be, you know, actually better. I don't make a lot of planes, but I will say that of the rovers I build, they're a little worse. Not game-breaking, but for all that hype.... man

 

Side note: guess "102. Saying you've downgraded to an earlier version because the current version is deficient " is being added to the "Forum no-nos" thread

 

[Mister Kerman]

12 minutes ago, Alshain said:

I never did figure out what the 'shimmy' description referred to.  I think that term was used to describe several issues.  There is a spring/damper issue that causes the small gear to oscillate and the sliders don't really help much.  I think that was reduced or fixed in 1.1.3, though.  I think the biggest wheel issue that most everyone playing 1.0.5 is waiting to get fixed is the fact that the plane either veers off the runway on takeoff/landing or just does donuts on the runway, usually resulting in wing strike.  This issue can't really be worked around very easily, what workarounds you can do to reduce the problem with the friction, spring, and damper sliders seem to follow no logical progression so you have to guess randomly with each plane at what the settings should be.

The "issue" @Snark is referring to is a new design requirement that requires you to 1. Use appropriate wheels for the size of the aircraft, and 2. Land at lower vertical speeds.... like real planes do (i.e. glide it in for a nice smooth touchdown).  Of course I never think of that as a bug, it's not really, as Snark said it's a rule change.  I'm just guessing, but while there may be some complaints about it, I don't think that is the biggest reason for the people that won't use 1.1.

(Probably should stop quoting large posts... oh well.)

 

I get wobbles and shimmies and donuts. Oddly enough I think I just turned the sliders up to max to for my best results for lack of understanding. Those were the only times I ever got off the runway. Planes are usually a big part of my early career but I generally just get lucky when I make it off the runway. Turning of SAS helped too, since a computer isn't trying to (over)compensate while you try to take off.

 

I may be talking out of my bum right now too, since I'm so early in my career and not building any planes that require larger gear. These sorts of things have never been a problem before so it sort of aggrivates me. It doesn't feel like a design issue or engineering challenge. It seems like a broken game mechanic.

Edited July 11, 2016 by Mister Kerman

[Alshain]

2 minutes ago, Mister Kerman said:

(Probably should stop quoting large posts... oh well.)

 

I get wobbles and shimmies and donuts. Oddly enough I think I just turned the sliders up to max to for my best results for lack of understanding. Those were the only times I ever got off the runway. Planes are usually a big part of my early career but I generally just get lucky when I make it off the runway. Turning of SAS helped too, since a computer isn't trying to (over)compensate while you try to take off.

 

I may be talking out of my bum right now too, since I'm so early in my career and not building any planes that require larger gear, but these sorts of things have never been a problem before anyways so it sort of aggrivates me. It doesn't feel like a design issue or engineering challenge. It seems like a broken game mechanic.

Well in my personal rule set, SAS on a plane is cheating.  Of course I use a flight stick, I used to use a keyboard and well my personal ruleset was a lot more relaxed back then.  Turning the sliders to max may work for the plane design you are on, and if it did that is wonderful, but it won't work on every design, and as far as I know there is no criteria to use for deciding where those sliders should be.  It's not like there is some building knowledge like knowing to have the CoL behind the CoM, these settings seem to be random and have no real description of their functionality.  I've yet to see any tutorial that validly explains how they work to do what you want, and I think that is because very few, if any, know the answer to that.