Jump to content

Kerbal EVA Tethers


Recommended Posts

I got an idea from this post: When a Kerbal is on EVA, perhaps one could right-click on any command modules or ladders and TETHER the Kerbal to the spacecraft for safety purposes. To untether, you could use the Kerbal's right-click action menu, or that of the object they're tethered to. This would just add that tiny bit to the EVA system. I acknowledge that this could be abused for deltaV using the infinite EVA propellant through entry and exit of a command pod, but the EVA thrusters are so weak it'd be a negligible effect (unless you're on Gilly). Perhaps you could continue trying to make the capsule's monopropellant as EVA fuel thing work. I just think that it wouldn't affect gameplay so much it'd be bad, but enough to be a nice touch.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If someone can propel an entire spacecraft for any useful length of time using a Kerbal's EVA suit, I'd reward them for having the dedication to do it by letting it happen...

Might be something for KAS - I generally provide KAS winches as Kerbal-tethers, but being able to surface-attach themselves to things would be precisely what you're after.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Van Disaster said:

If someone can propel an entire spacecraft for any useful length of time using a Kerbal's EVA suit, I'd reward them for having the dedication to do it by letting it happen...

Might be something for KAS - I generally provide KAS winches as Kerbal-tethers, but being able to surface-attach themselves to things would be precisely what you're after.

You would be surprised.  EVA pushing is a common way of deorbiting a craft that didn't quite make it back.  They aren't as negligible as you might think.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Van Disaster, not is it only possible, I've done it.

A Kerbal in his or her suit has about 300 m/s or DV.

I've used that with the Mk. 1 capsule to deorbit from a bad Mun escape, to land on Minmus and go halfway around it, and lots of other things, too.

As for the OP, I think it's an interesting idea. It might help new players, but I doubt that any of the old hands need it. I guess I'm in favor of it, because I remember my first EVA, where I almost got lost in space because I didn't understand the controls.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, Alshain said:

You would be surprised.  EVA pushing is a common way of deorbiting a craft that didn't quite make it back.  They aren't as negligible as you might think.

Yeah, but going back inside to recharge the suit is a viable thing to do if someone was mad enough to do that IRL anyway :) you're not going to push your ship to Jool from low Kerbin orbit in a sensible time, though. If you do, good for you, I see no reason to change the game so you can't. And yep, I've done the Minmus eva-to-orbit thing before.

Edited by Van Disaster
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've always thought this would be a sensible safety precaution.  I'm good enough at EVA to usually get back to my ship--doesn't mean I want to spend the time doing it though.  I suspect this will be made a stock thing at about the same time they get seat belts in Star Trek.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Perhaps, if you change a setting so that you're tethered by default, it could be used to get EVA reports in the lower atmosphere, where, more often than not, you're moving REALLY fast, and would normally get ripped off the ladder.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/16/2016 at 3:21 PM, kBob said:

I suspect this will be made a stock thing at about the same time they get seat belts in Star Trek.

There are seat belts in Star Trek: Beyond... :P I too think tethers are a good idea, and I'd like to further the idea:

In career mode, when EVA is first unlocked the jetpack should not be available, only tethers. After researching related technologies, the jetpack would become available, but with limited delta-V. With science you could upgrade the jetpack to have a higher Isp and therefore more delta-V until it got to the full 600 m/s.

Edited by cubinator
Link to comment
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, cubinator said:

There are seat belts in Star Trek: Beyond... :P I too think tethers are a good idea, and I'd like to further the idea:

Sorry but I have only watched the first of those alternative time line Star Trek movies, the first 15 minutes was interesting after that it seemed very un-Trek to me so I don't count that as having seat belts.  We'll have to see how it's handled in the new series next year...but if they do get seat belts it will be time for Kerbals to get some more safety features.

Making jet packs come later might be a good idea.  It might stop all that get out and push nonsense, but calculated dv should be in the engineering report to reduce the need to get out and push :wink:.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, kBob said:

Making jet packs come later might be a good idea.  It might stop all that get out and push nonsense, but calculated dv should be in the engineering report to reduce the need to get out and push :wink:.

Agreed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd be all for this, if (convincing) rope physics weren't such a gigantic pain in the butt. I've never seen good rope physics in a game, especially one that's such an edge case of it, being zero-g and all.

This might be a good feature to consider down the road (and would be a boon to resource transfer), but they have a lot of other things to fix before approaching such a complex feature for little benefit.

Edited by pincushionman
Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 hours ago, pincushionman said:

I'd be all for this, if (convincing) rope physics weren't such a gigantic pain in the butt. I've never seen good rope physics in a game, especially one that's such an edge case of it, being zero-g and all.

This might be a good feature to consider down the road (and would be a boon to resource transfer), but they have a lot of other things to fix before approaching such a complex feature for little benefit.

What does this have to do with resource transfer?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, specialopsdave said:

What does this have to do with resource transfer?

Successful implementation of rope physics in KSP would allow for not only EVA tethers, but also hoses allowing fuel, oxidizer and other resources to be transferred between two or more craft that aren't necessarily docked.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, sumghai said:

Successful implementation of rope physics in KSP would allow for not only EVA tethers, but also hoses allowing fuel, oxidizer and other resources to be transferred between two or more craft that aren't necessarily docked.

Not necessarily what I was going for, but I like it. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, specialopsdave said:

Not necessarily what I was going for, but I like it. 

I was just noting that fuel hoses is a commonly asked feature too, and since it's the exact same problem from a physics POV, if you solve one you get the other for free. But it's a very messy problem, even more messier than the physics KSP already chugs along over - essenrially you need to develop an entire specialized, stable, physics case based around self-intersection and clipping. And those two things are Kraken bait in the current system, so that's a tall order indeed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, pincushionman said:

I was just noting that fuel hoses is a commonly asked feature too, and since it's the exact same problem from a physics POV, if you solve one you get the other for free. But it's a very messy problem, even more messier than the physics KSP already chugs along over - essenrially you need to develop an entire specialized, stable, physics case based around self-intersection and clipping. And those two things are Kraken bait in the current system, so that's a tall order indeed.

Perhaps, instead of rope physics, it could use a lot of joints, not unlike the effects of linking lots of radial decouplers together. It would be less appealing to the Kraken than a brand new physics system, and although it may be lag-inducing, what in KSP isn't? AND, one wouldn't be using it for long stretches of time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, specialopsdave said:

Perhaps, instead of rope physics, it could use a lot of joints, not unlike the effects of linking lots of radial decouplers together. It would be less appealing to the Kraken than a brand new physics system, and although it may be lag-inducing, what in KSP isn't? AND, one wouldn't be using it for long stretches of time.

The amount of segments per length of hose could maybe be a performance option, to curb the lag a little bit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, specialopsdave said:

Perhaps, instead of rope physics, it could use a lot of joints, not unlike the effects of linking lots of radial decouplers together. It would be less appealing to the Kraken than a brand new physics system, and although it may be lag-inducing, what in KSP isn't? AND, one wouldn't be using it for long stretches of time.

That's pretty much all rope physics is. It's the self-intersection with the ship and itself where the problem rears its ugly head.  If you choose to ignore it and have it clip through everything, you wouldn't have a problem, and might as well just cast a straight segment between the connections. But if you're going to do that it would be horribly unconvincing, and what's the point?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So the problem isn't hoses, it's vessels having no internal collision detection - which is a longstanding discussion & people have fiddled with solutions every now and then. If you've ever tried towing anything with KAS you'll have run into some rather large issues resulting from that ( try removing the KAS hose when the vessels are clipping into each other ... ).

Possibly time to start a "vessels need internal collision" thread?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I like how involved everyone is in this thread.

1 hour ago, pincushionman said:

That's pretty much all rope physics is. It's the self-intersection with the ship and itself where the problem rears its ugly head.  If you choose to ignore it and have it clip through everything, you wouldn't have a problem, and might as well just cast a straight segment between the connections. But if you're going to do that it would be horribly unconvincing, and what's the point?

 

47 minutes ago, Van Disaster said:

So the problem isn't hoses, it's vessels having no internal collision detection - which is a longstanding discussion & people have fiddled with solutions every now and then. If you've ever tried towing anything with KAS you'll have run into some rather large issues resulting from that ( try removing the KAS hose when the vessels are clipping into each other ... ).

Possibly time to start a "vessels need internal collision" thread?

Maybe... The tether/hose could count as part of the Kerbal on EVA, rather than the vessels they're attached to, with the endpoints floating a centimeter or so from the vessel to avoid spazzing, and anchored at a certain coordinate relative to the vessel. This would allow collisions with the vessels, no problem, and a stable end point (or two). And I do agree, Van Disaster, they DO need internal collision.

(Remember, I'm a chemist, not a computer programmer, so I always could be wrong.)

Edited by specialopsdave
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Having the cable be part of the Kerbal rather than the ship is something we might be able to easily test with KAS. I will poke my nose in it but I'm completely unfamiliar with the internals of KAS ( and EVAing Kerbals ), but sounds promising. The cable would clip through the Kerbal, but that's much more tolerable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

+

On ‎7‎/‎22‎/‎2016 at 7:52 PM, pincushionman said:

I'd be all for this, if (convincing) rope physics weren't such a gigantic pain in the butt.

I'd be happy if the "ropes" were invisible (if they couldn't be made too look right), or just so thin they aren't going to be seen and all the tether did was limit the distance a Kerbal could go from a ship and have an option to be pulled back in (assuming a remote control or a second Kerbal to operate the winch or just pull the other one in).  In space I'm not sure what rope game physics would be anyway wouldn't it just be another object floating about like an eva Kerbal (albeit a very long skinny Kerbal)?

Or maybe not:

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This thread is quite old. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one.

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...