The Incredible Double Mun Double Kerbin Landing Challenge

[Der Anfang]

It's exactly what it sounds like:

Launch from Kerbin, land on the Mun, return back to Kerbin, and after landing, launch from it again and land on the Mun yet again. Finally, return back to Kerbin. This must be done using one single Vessel (no launching new vessels to assemble anything in orbit). You may not use any refining or refueling (although, fuel transfer is allowed). Additionally, as an optional bonus to the challenge, you may depart from the second Mun landing and reach orbit of Minmus, but additional points are rewarded for landing on Minmus. Bonus challenge or not, ultimately, the challenge must end with the vessel landed at Kerbin. Everything is calculated against the base score, then all the multipliers are added together for the final score.

For instance: A base of 100 points on the launch pad. You bring three kerbals in a pod and plant four flags. 100 + [ (3*50) + (4*5) ] = 290 points.

The rules are pretty straight forward:

1) Obviously, if you want to ultimate satisfaction in completing this challenge, no debug menu or hyperedit (except for your own testing purposes if you so choose, but do not include the test trials your post). Otherwise, what is the point?

2) You are not required to have a manned vessel, but the probe core must survive the challenge. However, the scoring will be much lower. If you choose to have a manned vessel, the Kerbals, as well as whatever is left of the vessel must be intact. All Kerbals must survive the entire trip and must be returned to Kerbin in your entry. No ditching Kerbals if you choose to bring any for the mission, or your entry will become void.

3) If you choose to man the vessel with Kerbals, you are allowed to use command seats, but your challenge will suffer a heavy scoring penalty.

4) You may only use stock parts. However, any informational mods are permitted. Mechanical Jeb is permitted as well (and you may use the auto features).

5) You are not required to plant any flags. However, it is highly encouraged that you plant a flag for each landing, as this will positively impact your score.

6) You may only use a single vessel for this challenge. No launching new vessels.

7) No refining or refueling.

8) Provide proof of your challenge! Screenshots and video uploads, even. Show your manoeuvres and show your landings. And if you choose to plant flags, show evidence of that as well. While it is optional, it is encouraged to share your .craft file. If your challenge does not seem legitimate, you will be asked to share your .craft file, or you will not be entered into the scoreboard.

9)  While you are only allowed one vessel launch for the challenge, you are allowed to dock parts. Apollo style if you so desire. Refueling from anything you launched from the single vessel is allowed. Just no refining or mining, as stated in rule 7.

10) If any of the rules are broken, or if you submit a bogus entry (or copy another person's entry), you wil not be eligible for the scoreboard. If you attempt to exploit any loopholes in the rules, you are disqualified.

11) Have fun!

 

How the challenge is scored:

There are several factors which impact the way your entry is scored. The foundation of the scoring system is based on the launch pad weight of your challenge. The lighter it is, the better. The way you build your craft affects the multipliers of the score. Additionally, planting flags also adds multipliers to your score. But there are other things that will negatively impact your score as well. I myself have completed this challenge, but I was unable to go below 500 tonnes. Most of the scores for the launch mass are wild guesses, and may or may not be possible. But there are plenty of talented rocket engineers here in the Kerbal community, so surprise me.

50 tonnes or less - 1.000.000 pts (not sure if this is even possible)

75 tonnes or less - 750.000 pts

100 tonnes or less - 500.000 pts

150 tonnes or less - 375.000 pts

200 tonnes or less - 250.000 pts

250 tonnes or less - 187.500 pts

300 tonnes or less - 125.000 pts

400 tonnes or less - 62.500 pts

500 tonnes or less - 31.250 pts

600 tonnes or less - 15.625 pts

700 tonnes or less - 7.800 pts

Any higher mass above 700 tonnes - honourable mentions

These multipliers will affect the base score of your entry:

1) Planting one flag per landing (Only one flag is allowed per trip; this means no tiny little bunny hops on the surface of the moon just to exploit this multiplier) - This is 5% per flag planted

2) If you choose not to use any Kerbals, and instead opt to use an automated vessel - This is a -50% penalty of your final score (after all the other multipliers are added).

3) If you choose to send any Kerbals on your vessel - You receive a 50% multiplier per Kerbal (only if they occupy a command pod)!

4) But... if you choose to use any command seats - You only receive a 15% multiplier per Kerbal, based on whichever Kerbal occupies the seat during the mission.

--BONUS MULTIPLIERS--

5) If you choose to include Minmus in this challenge, reach a stable orbit around this ball of mint icecream - This is a 20% multiplier!

6) Once you reach stable orbit, if you decide to land on Minmus - This is a 30% multiplier!

(Note: You are not required to make a third trip from Kerbin to fulfill this bonus. You may visit Minmus during any part of the challenge.)

 

Score Board:

1) @ManEatingApe 4.250.000 pts. just under 50 tonnes, 7 kerbals, all flags as well as minmus orbit and landing. 

2) @Mesklin with the " Munshot Twins". 3.750.000 pts.  49.214 tonnes. F-FOUR KERBALS. In command pods. I am speechless. You certainly lived up to the "Incredible" in the Double Mun Double Kerbin Landing Challenge.

3) ManEatingApe with the "Trident" ship. 3.250.000 pts - Wow, 49 tonnes! And THREE kerbals in COMMAND PODS. Very well done. Indeed, ducktaping three ship together has never been a better idea!

4) @Nefrums with the "2x Mun". 2.150.000 pts - My mind is blown. 37 TONNES!! A good utilization of both a command pod and a command seat. Sure it was one kerbal, but this really pushed the upper limits of the challenge. Phenomenal work!

5) @purpleivan A 222 tonne rocket! With lots of docking involved, and one kerbal to take on the daring challenge. Very well done, and I like the utilization of the docking! A great improvement over the last entry.

6) @purpleivan with the "Double Mun 1a", 20.280 pts - Sure, it may have scored on the lower end, but just as equally impressive work. This entry is the first to have approached docking methods, as well as using separate landers. Finally, the first Kerbin landing is quite impressive; it's on par with trying to land a tower perfecty upright, even after some hardware malfunctions. Well done, fellow Kerbal engineer!

4)

5)

6)

7)

Honourable Mentions:

@EvermoreAlpaca a 272 passenger 645 tonne psuedo SSTO styled space craft. Wow, incredible. Certainly wasn't going for the lightweight end of the spectrum, but they would have scored over 1.000.000 points with their entry, but upon request, did not want to be scored. Still, it's certainly a very interesting mission and deserves a look! One could learn a lot from the mission.

 

Final Thoughts:

I would like to wish all of you the best of luck in this challenge! I attempted to do it myself, just to make sure it is doable. And it is indeed doable. However, I have not successfully recollected my Kerbal on the final stage of the challenge... as something wonky and unexpected happened to my capsule during the final reentry. Not to mention that halfway through the challenge, my craft's landing legs somehow blew up... but I managed to touch down on the Mun on the second trip, just couldn't stay there for more than half a second, lest my craft tipped over. With some minor tweaking and more careful piloting, it is certainly possible. The proof of concept is here for your concenience: http://www.mediafire.com/download/ymmzu71d69us12r/Double_Mun_Lander_1.craft

On a side note, if anyone would like to volunteer and help me create a badge for the challenge, I'll certainly make room in this thread for anyone's name who wants to help me make a badge for this challenge.

Edited October 20, 2016 by Der Anfang

[Ultimate Steve]

I remember that someone did this once. On Eve.

I can't find the video, but it was back in the days of the old aero, and he had a giant pancake stack. The first asparagus pairs dropped, like, 10m up.

[Superfluous J]

Do you get the 5% bonus for planting a flag on Minmus? So the most you can get for the flags is 5 plantings and 25%?

[Der Anfang]

9 minutes ago, 5thHorseman said:

Do you get the 5% bonus for planting a flag on Minmus? So the most you can get for the flags is 5 plantings and 25%?

That is correct!

[JacobJHC]

Sounds awesome. I plan to do this challenge, there used to be a challenge like this one but I am not sure if it is still checked. Either way I will simply wait for some free time before launching this mission.

[Firemetal]

Someone went to Duna like this but 3 times! Can't think of the name. 

Awesome challenge idea. Too hard 4 me though. 

[JacobJHC]

5 minutes ago, Firemetal said:

Someone went to Duna like this but 3 times! Can't think of the name. 

Gotcha covered

 

[Der Anfang]

8 minutes ago, Firemetal said:

Someone went to Duna like this but 3 times! Can't think of the name. 

Awesome challenge idea. Too hard 4 me though. 

I'm still attempting your 50 tonne Eeloo challenge. And I still can't fuggin' do it!  I managed to leap out of Eeloo orbit and even fly past Jool and Tylo... but ended up getting stranded in solar orbit. 

[septemberWaves]

The scoring system is a little confusing. Are the multipliers additive or multiplicative (e.g. would a +50% and a +20% multiplier stack to an overall multiplication of 1.7 (added) or 1.8 (multiplied))?

Edited August 18, 2016 by eloquentJane

[Der Anfang]

4 minutes ago, eloquentJane said:

The scoring system is a little confusing. Are the multipliers additive or multiplicative (e.g. would a +50% and a +20% multiplier stack to an overall multiplication of 1.7 (added) or 1.8 (multiplied))?

Multiplied. Everything is multiplied on the base score. For instance, if you have 3 kerbals in a command pod, that's 150%, or whatever your base score is time 1.5. For instance, a 100 tonne ship on the launch pad is worth 500.000 pts. But because of the multiplier, this would give you 1.250.000 points. But, if you had a 100 tonne unmanned probe, the multiplier of -50% would only give you a score of 250.000 pts.

[Superfluous J]

But what if you have 3 Kerbals (150% added) and land on Minmus (20% added) is that 170% added?

100 base points + 150 for Kerbals + 20 for Minmus = 270 points

Or is it

100 base points * 2.5 for Kerbals * 1.2 for Minmus = 300 points

[Der Anfang]

18 minutes ago, 5thHorseman said:

But what if you have 3 Kerbals (150% added) and land on Minmus (20% added) is that 170% added?

100 base points + 150 for Kerbals + 20 for Minmus = 270 points

Or is it

100 base points * 2.5 for Kerbals * 1.2 for Minmus = 300 points

Er. Well damn, I guess I've really confused people with my scoring system. Pardon me, please; this is my first time really seriously attempting to set up a half decent challenge.

Yes, it is the first. Everything is multiplied from the base score, THEN added together onto the score. 100 base point, then sending 3 kerbals in a command pod is 150 extra points, then orbiting and landing on minmus is an additional 20+30 points. So, 100 base + (150 for kerbals + 20 Minmus orbit + 30 Minmus landing) = 300 points. Or, if you simply orbit Minmus, it's just 270 points.

 

Perhaps I had just made the numbers too big. If I should change something, just let me know. Obviously, if you want to land on minmus for the challenge, it has to be bundled with the rest of the challenge. I'm beginning to think I may have rushed the point system and it prolly makes no sense at all...

Edited August 18, 2016 by Der Anfang

[Superfluous J]

No worries, I've set up a couple challenges in the past and I've never gotten it right on the first go Also, I don't actually care about the points so much personally, I just want to try interesting things and this sounds like an interesting challenge.

I've got a ship that can leave Mun, land on Kerbin, get to and land back on Mun, get to and land on Minmus, and then get home from Minmus. I've just now got to figure out how to get it to Mun. It's already 50 tons so it looks like that tier's out for me

[Firemetal]

8 hours ago, Der Anfang said:

I'm still attempting your 50 tonne Eeloo challenge. And I still can't fuggin' do it!  I managed to leap out of Eeloo orbit and even fly past Jool and Tylo... but ended up getting stranded in solar orbit. 

Ouch! Sorry to hear that. Well keep trying. Stay determined! 

[magnemoe]

I assume this has to be an single ship all the time, you are not allowed to undock an lander, land on Mun and return and dock with mothership Apollo style?
This also applies to leaving fuel in orbits to refuel from. This would also save a lot especially if you enter orbit around kerbin and refuel before landing. 

dV will be around 3000+1000+800+800+300=5900 for each go, minmus will cost an extra 6-700. 

[Der Anfang]

On 8/18/2016 at 7:12 AM, magnemoe said:

I assume this has to be an single ship all the time, you are not allowed to undock an lander, land on Mun and return and dock with mothership Apollo style?
This also applies to leaving fuel in orbits to refuel from. This would also save a lot especially if you enter orbit around kerbin and refuel before landing. 

dV will be around 3000+1000+800+800+300=5900 for each go, minmus will cost an extra 6-700. 

Huh. You make a point. If you want, you can try this. I'd like to see how it turns out, actually. I was debating on whether to allow docking or not.

 

On 8/18/2016 at 2:39 AM, 5thHorseman said:

No worries, I've set up a couple challenges in the past and I've never gotten it right on the first go Also, I don't actually care about the points so much personally, I just want to try interesting things and this sounds like an interesting challenge.

I've got a ship that can leave Mun, land on Kerbin, get to and land back on Mun, get to and land on Minmus, and then get home from Minmus. I've just now got to figure out how to get it to Mun. It's already 50 tons so it looks like that tier's out for me

Like I said, I'm not even sure if 50 tonnes is possible. Then again, I put it out there because there are some crazy good ksp gamers out there. 

Anyway. I keep trying to rebuild a craft for this challenge as well. Unfortunately, I'm a little spoiled by the ISRU system. Sure, I started back in 0.23. But I could barely leave the Kerbin Mun system because I was so inexperienced, lol. There are plenty of people who have done it the hard way and had to do their missions without refueling.

Building lightweight craft is especially tricky. I can build medium/heavy weight craft no problem. My current project I've got a 24 t vehicle that can launch from Kerbin, land on the Mun and back.

Edited November 6, 2017 by Der Anfang
Spelling mistake

[magnemoe]

4 hours ago, Der Anfang said:

Huh. You make a point. If you want, you can try this. I'd like to see how it turns out, actually. I was debating on whether to allow docking or not.

Challenge accepted

First test was 150 ton with one kerbal and fuel depot in LKO and Mun orbit.
Should be possible to reduce this as I took the full load 3500 m/s dv for the return ship to Mun, I only need 1600 to land and return to mun orbit. 
Also thinking of dropping the poodle upper stage and instead use two drop tanks where one will be used as fuel depot in LKO. 
Will also need better heat shielding on the upper stage for Mun return aerobrake. 

Edited August 18, 2016 by magnemoe

[Nefrums]

this was a fun challenge!

not sure how this scores, but I think it is 1,8M points

 

 

Full album:

http://imgur.com/a/j1FzD

[Der Anfang]

4 hours ago, Nefrums said:

this was a fun challenge!

not sure how this scores, but I think it is 1,8M points

 

 

Full album:

http://imgur.com/a/j1FzD

Holy sweet mother... 36 tonnes!!! My mind is blown. I didn't think it was possible, but having been in this community for a while now, I should have expected that someone would certainly find a way!

Did you plant a flag on minmus and on your final Kerbin landing? Also, how did you aerobrake on the last return without blowing up?

Alright, so you used a command seat halfway through, but you still used a command pod. I think that counts enough! My mind is blown. You have no idea how honoured I am to have you participate in my challenge!

[Nefrums]

I ran out of flags after the second mun landing, no pod to resuply in. 

The second aerobrake is all about shielding the kerbal with the tank.  As long as your ship has high drag/mass ratio you are safe. 

I used the command pod as a kerbal in a chair within a fairing will still overheat at ~1.3km/s, for reasons... 

 

[ManEatingApe]

Jeb, Bill and Bob couldn't decide who should go on the mission. The debate was finally settled by breaking out a roll of duct tape and combining their crafts into one.

This resulted in a slightly unorthodox design just under the 50 ton threshold with an entire 133 kilos to spare for snacks!

Notes:

• The Communotrons protect the shock cones from exploding from heating past 1,300 m/s
• The double decoupler on the central rear stage takes advantage of the Rapier fuel flow rules so that all 3 Rapiers drain from this first and use the side stages next.

 

The lads made it to the Mun and back twice, and also threw in a trip to Minimus.

If I've read the OP correctly then that is 1000 base points + (3 * 50%) + (5 * 5%) + 20% + 30% = 3250 total

 

Flag planting snapshots:

    

 

Link to full Imgur album

Edited September 11, 2016 by ManEatingApe

[zolotiyeruki]

15 hours ago, ManEatingApe said:

Jeb, Bill and Bob couldn't decide who should go on the mission. The debate was finally settled by breaking out a roll of duct tape and combining their crafts into one.

Color me impressed.  That's a sweet design, and you did it all without KER, too!

[ManEatingApe]

2 hours ago, zolotiyeruki said:

Color me impressed.  That's a sweet design, and you did it all without KER, too!

Thanks! In the spirit of full disclosure, it wasn't completely unassisted... I do use a trusty Google doc spreadsheet to calculate dV and TWR. 

For example here's the dV planning for the mission:

And a quick sanity check of the TWR.

 

Using an external spreadsheet has the disadvantage of being a little more clunky, but the advantage that I can check my latest ideas (discreetly) during work 

Edited September 12, 2016 by ManEatingApe

[Red Iron Crown]

On 8/17/2016 at 8:22 PM, Ultimate Steve said:

I remember that someone did this once. On Eve.

I can't find the video, but it was back in the days of the old aero, and he had a giant pancake stack. The first asparagus pairs dropped, like, 10m up.

That was @metaphor. Link.

[Temeter]

On 18.8.2016 at 4:41 AM, JacobJHC said:

Gotcha covered

 

This is... Beautiful :'D