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Galileo

By Galileo
in KSP1 Mod Releases

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metl

metl

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Well this is certainly an interesting idea! Commanders sound a bit too OP though... If they can do everything, how are they balanced against the others aside from lesser science rewards? What makes an engineer a better choice over a commander?

I really like the concept and think I will check it out! How well does it play with KAS/KIS with regards to engineer skills?

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Galileo

Galileo

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@metl it will play with any mod.

To answer your questions, well, I don't really have any answers lol

I made this just to make the game a little more "playable"
Seeing as these kerbals we hire are supposedly astronauts cosmonauts  kerbinauts(?) they should have more than their ONE skill as I'm sure real astronauts do.
there are no values for me to change to make the stability assist, or repair skill better for a commander than a engineer so all I could do was to differentiate the classes was make the contrast in science multipliers greater.

I'm certainly open for suggestions

 

Edited by Galileo
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korogg

korogg

Posted
Posted

This sounds cool. How about making the new titles be an addition to the old titles. i/e Can we have both so we could promote Jeb to commander and still have the other lesser kerbs be pilots and so on. An actual rank structure would be sweet!

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Galileo

Galileo

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12 minutes ago, korogg said:

This sounds cool. How about making the new titles be an addition to the old titles. i/e Can we have both so we could promote Jeb to commander and still have the other lesser kerbs be pilots and so on. An actual rank structure would be sweet!

I wish I could but this mod is just a stock cfg.  that I changed. As far as I know ksp only allows 3 classes atm.  I tried exactly what you proposed but the game only recognizes Pilots scientists and engineers. I couldn't get it to recognize, for example, test pilot. I do agree a rank structure would be pretty cool or at least a promotion system.

 @Papa_Joe seeing as you dev roster manager and might know this answer,  would it be possible to add more class types or is that hard-coded? 

Edited by Galileo
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Papa_Joe

Papa_Joe

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Posted
8 minutes ago, Galileo said:

I wish I could but this mod is just a stock cfg.  that I changed. As far as I know ksp only allows 3 classes atm.  I tried exactly what you proposed but the game only recognizes Pilots scientists and engineers. I couldn't get it to recognize, for example, test pilot. I do agree a rank structure would be pretty cool or at least a promotion system.

 @Papa_Joe seeing as you dev roster manager and might know this answer,  would it be possible to add more class types or is that hard-coded? 

In the kerbal traits, there are currently Pilot, Scientist, Engineer, and Tourist.   It is possible to create others, 

The issue is persistence.  If you add traits, they will be saved to the game save.  Then you have to be able to handle it on load.  I've not explored this, but some testing should let you know what happens.   just change the trait to whatever you want, and save the kerbal.  on load they still should be there... as far as how KSP handles it.. I don't know. there are 2 basic Kerbal types.  CrewMember, and Tourist.  Pilots, Engineers and Scientists are a Kerbal Type of CrewMember.  Tourists have a Kerbal type of Tourist.

Hope that helps some.   I will be exploring this in the near future, and RM will likely be manipulating this this as well for "specializations"

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Galileo

Galileo

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6 minutes ago, Papa_Joe said:

The issue is persistence.  If you add traits, they will be saved to the game save.  Then you have to be able to handle it on load.  I've not explored this, but some testing should let you know what happens.   just change the trait to whatever you want, and save the kerbal.  on load they still should be there... as far as how KSP handles it.. I don't know. there are 2 basic Kerbal types.  CrewMember, and Tourist.  Pilots, Engineers and Scientists are a Kerbal Type of CrewMember.  Tourists have a Kerbal type of Tourist.

Hope that helps some.   I will be exploring this in the near future, and RM will likely be manipulating this this as well for "specializations"

Oh I'm not talking about the traits,  I am talking about expanding the crewmember type. So instead of just having pilot, engineer and scientist I can add,  say,  test pilot or lackey and give them their own set traits

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Papa_Joe

Papa_Joe

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Just now, Galileo said:

Oh I'm not talking about the traits,  I am talking about expanding the crewmember type. So instead of just having pilot, engineer and scientist I can add,  say,  test pilot or lackey and give them their own set traits

That is just it... it is in the trait that these things are defined.  so you can add custom traits.

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Papa_Joe

Papa_Joe

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21 minutes ago, Galileo said:

Ohhh I'm dumb OK I just misread earlier! 

The class you want to look at is ExperienceTrait

it is attached to the ProtoCrewMember.  It has an ExperienceTraitConfig.  This is where the characeristics are assigned.   you may kow this already.. :) 

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Galileo

Galileo

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2 hours ago, Papa_Joe said:

The class you want to look at is ExperienceTrait

it is attached to the ProtoCrewMember.  It has an ExperienceTraitConfig.  This is where the characeristics are assigned.   you may kow this already.. :) 

I'm still having issue finding what you are talking about. 

This mod is just the traits.cfg that I edited. What I'm trying to do is this

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Padrone

Padrone

Posted
Posted

I love this concept!

I do have a bug report / unforeseen issue, tho.

I have Station Science installed in my Career game.  I lofted and attached an experiment module (Kuarq Bio-Activity).  The Cyclotrons  filled the experiment with Kuarqs, as expected.  However, the other portion of the experiment requires a special sort of research result (Bioproducts) from the zoology lab.  I could not start the research in that lab, nothing happened when I clicked it's "Start Research" button.

I exited KSP, change the name Titles in the Traits.CFG back to their normal values, but left all the other changes to the traits file in there.  I restarted the game and was able to start the necessary research.  Bioproducts were created, and my science marches on!

Also, I noticed that Portrait Stats didn't seem to know what to do with the crew as far as the icon that represents their 'class'.  I can live with that, but not without the science!

I hope you can find a way thru these.  I think this idea is great!

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Galileo

Galileo

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11 minutes ago, Padrone said:

I love this concept!

I do have a bug report / unforeseen issue, tho.

I have Station Science installed in my Career game.  I lofted and attached an experiment module (Kuarq Bio-Activity).  The Cyclotrons  filled the experiment with Kuarqs, as expected.  However, the other portion of the experiment requires a special sort of research result (Bioproducts) from the zoology lab.  I could not start the research in that lab, nothing happened when I clicked it's "Start Research" button.

I exited KSP, change the name Titles in the Traits.CFG back to their normal values, but left all the other changes to the traits file in there.  I restarted the game and was able to start the necessary research.  Bioproducts were created, and my science marches on!

Also, I noticed that Portrait Stats didn't seem to know what to do with the crew as far as the icon that represents their 'class'.  I can live with that, but not without the science!

I hope you can find a way thru these.  I think this idea is great!

I mean,  I could just not rename the titles but keep the effects the same probably easier that way.  More compatiblity too.  I honestly didn't think any mods went off the titles.  I figured it was all off the name. Hmmmm gonna have to see what I can do

Edited by Galileo
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Galileo

Galileo

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10 minutes ago, Padrone said:

But, but... "Mission Commander" is soooo much cooler than "Pilot"! :cool:

I know but having the other devs change their mods to work with this rinky dink mod is just not realistic 

Edited by Galileo
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PieBue

PieBue

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9 hours ago, Galileo said:

I wish I could but this mod is just a stock cfg.  that I changed. As far as I know ksp only allows 3 classes atm.  I tried exactly what you proposed but the game only recognizes Pilots scientists and engineers. I couldn't get it to recognize, for example, test pilot. I do agree a rank structure would be pretty cool or at least a promotion system.

 @Papa_Joe seeing as you dev roster manager and might know this answer,  would it be possible to add more class types or is that hard-coded? 

The Maritime Mod adds the seaman class. I dunno know what it is, but you may ask the Modder about how he introduced the class or you could reengineer it.

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thomash

thomash

Posted
Posted

I think you are on to something very interesting here.  One of my gripes with the KSP crew system is that there is no overlap in skills.  It keeps crew selection simple and that’s a good thing.  But it’s also unrealistic.

I was browsing the Apollo program and made some observations.  All (I think) Apollo astronauts were pilots, and mission Commanders were never actually designated as “pilot” of the spacecraft.  On Apollo 11 Neil Armstrong was the mission Commander.  Collins was the CM pilot and Aldrin was the LM pilot.  Likewise with Apollo 13, Lovell was the mission Commander, Swigert was the CM pilot and Haize the LM pilot.

The idea is that the Pilot needs to focus on piloting, and in an emergency the Commander can “step back” evaluate the overall situation and tell the other two what to do.  

So I think having all three crew classes capable of some degree of each of the three skills is a more accurate depiction of how the historical crews were configured.   So, if I want to recreate an Apollo-like moon landing, the crewmember with the best pilot ability would be my LM Pilot, the second best pilot would be the CM Pilot and the Commander would probably be the one with the well-rounded skill set.  For the actual landing I would assign the LM pilot and the Commander.  In that way the Commander would be able to set up surface experiment hardware (Engineer function); and extract Science (Scientist function).

So I think this mod is starting to get at that.  Now, if someone could figure out how to change the names and still have correct functionality.  Still, I really like this mod.

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Galileo

Galileo

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8 minutes ago, JeffreyCor said:

Really like this idea a lot! But wouldn't a MM cfg file be better than replacing the stock file?

1 hour ago, thomash said:

 Now, if someone could figure out how to change the names and still have correct functionality.  Still, I really like this mod.

I'll be working on these things this weekend.  

I've never written a MM cfg but ya you are right,  an mm cfg would be a better route. I should be able to figure it out. I know it's not hard,  I just have never had to.  Woo-hoo more learning! 

Edited by Galileo
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WissyWassy

WissyWassy

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Posted

Was working on some MM cfg's anyways, and couldn't stop :)

So here you go; 

@EXPERIENCE_TRAIT[Pilot]	{
	@title = Commander
	@desc = Responsible for overall mission success, safety of crew and manuevers the vessel.

	EFFECT	{
		name = RepairSkill
	}
	EFFECT	{
		name = VesselScienceReturn
		modifiers = 1.5, 1.7, 1.9, 2.1, 2.1
	}
	EFFECT	{
		name = PartScienceReturn
		modifiers = 1.5, 1.7, 1.9, 2.1, 2.1
	}
	EFFECT	{
		name = ScienceSkill
	}
}

@EXPERIENCE_TRAIT[Engineer]	{
	@title = Payload Specialist
	@desc = Maintains all things technical on the vessel. 

	EFFECT	{
		name = AutopilotSkill
	}
	EFFECT	{
		name = VesselScienceReturn
		modifiers = 0.5, 0.7, 0.9, 0.9, 1.0
	}
	EFFECT	{
		name = PartScienceReturn
		modifiers = 0.5, 0.7, 0.9, 0.9, 1.0
	}
}

@EXPERIENCE_TRAIT[Scientist]	{
	@title = Mission Specialist
	@desc = Has knowledge of all the experiments taking place on board.
	@EFFECT[VesselScienceReturn]	{
		@modifiers = 3.0, 3.2, 3.4, 3.6, 3.8
	}
	EFFECT[PartScienceReturn]	{
		@modifiers = 3.0, 3.2, 3.4, 3.6, 3.8
	}
}

@EXPERIENCE_TRAIT[Tourist]	{
	@title = Spaceflight Participant
	@desc = Spaceflight Participants pay money to see new and exciting places.
}

(Be aware that the Title field is restricted to 14 Characters ingame)

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Galileo

Galileo

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36 minutes ago, WissyWassy said:

Was working on some MM cfg's anyways, and couldn't stop :)

So here you go; 


@EXPERIENCE_TRAIT[Pilot]	{
	@title = Commander
	@desc = Responsible for overall mission success, safety of crew and manuevers the vessel.

	EFFECT	{
		name = RepairSkill
	}
	EFFECT	{
		name = VesselScienceReturn
		modifiers = 1.5, 1.7, 1.9, 2.1, 2.1
	}
	EFFECT	{
		name = PartScienceReturn
		modifiers = 1.5, 1.7, 1.9, 2.1, 2.1
	}
	EFFECT	{
		name = ScienceSkill
	}
}

@EXPERIENCE_TRAIT[Engineer]	{
	@title = Payload Specialist
	@desc = Maintains all things technical on the vessel. 

	EFFECT	{
		name = AutopilotSkill
	}
	EFFECT	{
		name = VesselScienceReturn
		modifiers = 0.5, 0.7, 0.9, 0.9, 1.0
	}
	EFFECT	{
		name = PartScienceReturn
		modifiers = 0.5, 0.7, 0.9, 0.9, 1.0
	}
}

@EXPERIENCE_TRAIT[Scientist]	{
	@title = Mission Specialist
	@desc = Has knowledge of all the experiments taking place on board.
	@EFFECT[VesselScienceReturn]	{
		@modifiers = 3.0, 3.2, 3.4, 3.6, 3.8
	}
	EFFECT[PartScienceReturn]	{
		@modifiers = 3.0, 3.2, 3.4, 3.6, 3.8
	}
}

@EXPERIENCE_TRAIT[Tourist]	{
	@title = Spaceflight Participant
	@desc = Spaceflight Participants pay money to see new and exciting places.
}

(Be aware that the Title field is restricted to 14 Characters ingame)

Well look at this!  Thanks so much I just got back from class and was about to start working on this.  I turn my pc on and boom it's done..  Thanks to you!  You made my night!  good to know about the title character cap

Edited by Galileo
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Galileo

Galileo

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This is my future intentions with this mod, but I will need support. If you know anyone willing to help guide me through the process of creating a plugin let me know please! You can visit the link in the thread below. It is explained more in depth.  It may not look right in Google Chrome though.  I haven't had time to go and fix it yet. But give it a read anyway! 

Also,  I updated the mod and it is now a MM cfg. Thanks to @WissyWassy so give him some props for doing the work for me.  **Be sure to revert your old traits cfg back to stock**

 

Edited by Galileo
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linuxgurugamer

linuxgurugamer

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Posted (edited)

Can you please do the following:

Add a .version file (see the http://ksp-avc.cybutek.net/).  I see you did create an entry on the site, but you need to download and include the file with the mod (in the mod directory).

Then, put it up on Github.  Right now, the Github you reference doesn't have the file Skillz_MM.cfg

Then let me know and I'll be able to get the .netkan file updated (for CKAN)

Thanks

Edited by linuxgurugamer
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linuxgurugamer

linuxgurugamer

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Posted
On 8/18/2016 at 5:29 PM, Galileo said:

**as of version 1.0.4, all job titles will be reverted back to stock titles for compatibility reasons. I am going to start working on a plugin soon to over ride this hopefully.**

Take a look at this mod:  http://spacedock.info/mod/777/TRP-Hire

You may want to work with @TheReadPanda to make sure this is compatible 

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