KerbNet?

[Geschosskopf]

So what's this KerbNet thing I've caught occasional mention of in devnotes and such?  Is it a real thing or just a meme?  I haven't been able to google up anything substantive on the subject.

[Kermanzooming]

It's like a map you can check from ships, to see biomes and set waypoints .

From the devnote Devnote Tuesday: I ain’t getting on no plane! Devnotes

Quote

In parallel with the work on the antenna system Brian has been working on a feature the developers have dubbed “Kerbnet”. Kerbnet is essentially software that will reside on all probe cores. No special part is required, but it will only function if you have an active communications link with the space center, and will provide various features such as allowing you to see where biomes are in a limited range underneath the probe core, and allowing you to place customizable waypoints. Of course, these features will rely on signals strength between the KSC and your spacecraft. Here’s a picture of Kerbnet in action: http://i.imgur.com/ip24PQw.gif

 

[Tex]

Wow, you can set waypoints with it? That'll be excellent.

[Chemp]

13 hours ago, Geschosskopf said:

So what's this KerbNet thing I've caught occasional mention of in devnotes and such?

It's a trap!

11 hours ago, Kermanzooming said:

[...] but it will only function if you have an active communications link with the space center,

...but if no such connection is present, KerbNet will evolve into Skynet, nuking the KSC and scuttling your space program. We will first see bug reports, then a communiqué by the dev's that all is in perfect order, followed by a long silence. On the remaining instances of KSP, robots disguised as Kerbals will appear in the Astronaut Complex, distinguishable from your normal recruits only by the fact that they are incredibly BadS and have a certain red glow in their eyes. You can imagine the rest.

Stay away from 1.2! It will be our doom!!!

 

Edit: An unexpected visitor with a stern expression and a heavy accent just "suggested" correcting my previous statement.

Of course, Kermanzooming is absolutely right.

Edited August 21, 2016 by Chemp

[Geschosskopf]

Thanks for the info. @Kermanzooming and @Chemp.  Given the brief description, I'm not entirely sure how useful KerbNet will be, but maybe it will surprise me.  I mean, it appears to perpetuate the maddening inability to save or even see a complete map of a planet and its biomes.  What's up with that?

[Chemp]

1 hour ago, Geschosskopf said:

What's up with that?

For my part, I agree with you that a more permanent way to access biomes would be nice. As @Kermanzooming mentioned, Kerbnet will give us the ability to see them, although not permanently. You can always get a sceenshot though or print out @Cyriak's maps. Since I don't own a second display and KSP sometimes strangles itself when I Alt-Tab out, I'm going with the latter option.

From last week's devnotes:

On 17.8.2016 at 2:00 AM, SQUAD said:

Other than that Brian also set up a chance for higher level probe cores to detect hidden things in KerbNet which increases with tech level.

That's a feature I'm very interested in. It can be implemented in a large variety of ways, from ore concentrations to detecting Eastereggs, and I guess it will take some time to get used to all the changes it brings in.

Edited August 21, 2016 by Chemp
darn typos...

[Alshain]

It can be best described as a sort of alternate ScanSAT + Waypoint Manager.  But don't mistake that, it isn't either of those, it's another interpretation entirely that has similar features.

[Kermanzooming]

1 hour ago, Alshain said:

It can be best described as a sort of alternate ScanSAT + Waypoint Manager.  But don't mistake that, it isn't either of those, it's another interpretation entirely that has similar features.

Yep, if you are looking for a map feature then ScanSat is the way to go. Kerbnet seems to be quite limited from the sparse information available.

[Alshain]

47 minutes ago, Kermanzooming said:

Yep, if you are looking for a map feature then ScanSat is the way to go. Kerbnet seems to be quite limited from the sparse information available.

It appears to be only limited by the number of satellites.  While ScanSAT has 'memory' of what has been scanned this new system can only see what is currently below a satellite.  If you have enough satellites you would be able to establish full coverage.  It's just a different approach.  Other than that, we don't really know what all we will be able to see, but we know biomes, easter eggs, and it looks from the screenshots like an elevation map as well.  That covers most of the ScanSAT's native functionality.

Edited August 21, 2016 by Alshain

[Geschosskopf]

58 minutes ago, Kermanzooming said:

Yep, if you are looking for a map feature then ScanSat is the way to go.

Indubitably.  Building a large base, that you intend to make the lynchpin of your exploitation of the planet, is a major project that absolutely has to be in the best location.  Unless you have a full map, complete with resource overlays, you can't possibly make an informed decision.

 

17 minutes ago, Alshain said:

If you have enough satellites you would be able to establish full coverage.

I don't see that being practical, due to the small footprint of each satellite's display.  The sheer number of satellites required, and the inability to achieve the necessary precision in their placement to keep them arranged as desired, seem to rule against that.  So I think you'd still be stuck with a very short time to look at any given spot on the ground, and then have to wait days to weeks (depending on number of satellites) before a satellite flew over that spot again.

BTW, the display in the GIF above looks like that of the NBS, but I don't see an NBS on the satellite.  Does the new dish antenna have NBS functionality?  Or does KerbNet give that sort of display to every probe core, only it just doesn't show resources?

[Alshain]

@Geschosskopf  If you are waiting weeks for a satellite to fly over a position, then you are very very bad at installing satellites in orbit

When I say full coverage, I didn't mean a satellite over every position of the planet at all times.  Given how far out the map seemingly allows you to zoom, I think you can get what you need.   Look at the zoom level, he only takes it half way and that is a huge chunk of the planet.  As far as time, the map doesn't auto-update, it's a refresh button.  So don't click that button and you can look at it forever. 

The display is given to all probe cores.

Edited August 21, 2016 by Alshain

[Geschosskopf]

3 minutes ago, Alshain said:

@Geschosskopf  If you are waiting weeks for a satellite to fly over a position, then you are very very bad at installing satellites in orbit

I'm talking about spots that aren't on or particularly close to the equator.  To reach them at all, you have to be in an inclined orbit.  To see more of the surface than the same narrow strip all the time, which is generally what you want when exploring a planet, you have to be in an asynchronous orbit.  If you're in an asynchronous orbit, then you pass over every square inch of the surface before coming back to the same spot (unless the spot is at a pole, which you see every orbit).  The instruments on the satellite work best at various altitudes, and that altitude determines your speed over the ground, and thus how long it takes the satellite to come back to the same spot again.  For planets about the size of Kerbin, the time required to go back over the same spot will be about 3 days to a week depending on the instrument used.  The smaller the planet/moon, however, the slower your satellite goes at any altitude, so the longer it takes to come back to the same spot again.  It's quite possible for several weeks to elapse at the smaller moons.

 

3 minutes ago, Alshain said:

When I say full coverage, I didn't mean a satellite over every position of the planet at all times.  Given how far out the map seemingly allows you to zoom, I think you can look at  spot for long enough each pass.

Again, this depends on your altitude.  In my experience, for the NBS display (and thus, presumably, the KerbNet display) to have usefully high resolution, you have to be pretty low.  While this makes you go faster, so you come back to the same spot sooner, you zip over spots of interest quite quickly, too.  I myself only find the NBS useful when it's on the ground.  That's the only way to get the display hold still instead of moving with the ship, and thus have the time to study it in detail.

[Alshain]

21 minutes ago, Geschosskopf said:

I'm talking about spots that aren't on or particularly close to the equator.  To reach them at all, you have to be in an inclined orbit.  To see more of the surface than the same narrow strip all the time, which is generally what you want when exploring a planet, you have to be in an asynchronous orbit.  If you're in an asynchronous orbit, then you pass over every square inch of the surface before coming back to the same spot (unless the spot is at a pole, which you see every orbit).  The instruments on the satellite work best at various altitudes, and that altitude determines your speed over the ground, and thus how long it takes the satellite to come back to the same spot again.  For planets about the size of Kerbin, the time required to go back over the same spot will be about 3 days to a week depending on the instrument used.  The smaller the planet/moon, however, the slower your satellite goes at any altitude, so the longer it takes to come back to the same spot again.  It's quite possible for several weeks to elapse at the smaller moons.

Again, did you not see just how far out he can zoom.. that was only half way.   It looks like you will be able to get almost the entire side of the planet in one equatorial pass.  Most people build bases near equatorial anyway to make life easier.

 

22 minutes ago, Geschosskopf said:

Again, this depends on your altitude.  In my experience, for the NBS display (and thus, presumably, the KerbNet display) to have usefully high resolution, you have to be pretty low.  While this makes you go faster, so you come back to the same spot sooner, you zip over spots of interest quite quickly, too.  I myself only find the NBS useful when it's on the ground.  That's the only way to get the display hold still instead of moving with the ship, and thus have the time to study it in detail.

You aren't zipping over spots too quickly, the map doesn't update as you move like the narrow band scanner.  Look at the GIF again, it's a refresh button.  It's stays there till you change it.

[Geschosskopf]

1 hour ago, Alshain said:

Again, did you not see just how far out he can zoom.. that was only half way.   It looks like you will be able to get almost the entire side of the planet in one equatorial pass.  Most people build bases near equatorial anyway to make life easier.

But if you're zoomed out, you don't see the fine detail you need to make informed decisions.

 

1 hour ago, Alshain said:

You aren't zipping over spots too quickly, the map doesn't update as you move like the narrow band scanner.  Look at the GIF again, it's a refresh button.  It's stays there till you change it.

But, by the time you've studied one such snapshot long enough to learn what you need, your ship has moved so far that the next snapshot won't be adjacent to the first.  And once you take the next snapshot, the 1st is gone forever so you can't refer back to it.  And it will be days or weeks before you can look at that spot again.

[Alshain]

Ok, well you just can't be pleased then.  There is more than enough there to do what most people need to do.

Edited August 22, 2016 by Alshain

[Superfluous J]

1 hour ago, Geschosskopf said:

But if you're zoomed out, you don't see the fine detail you need to make informed decisions.

I guess we'll need to see when we play if you can - once zoomed out - zoom in on another location. If so, one or just a few satellite(s) will be enough. If not, then we'd need more, or those who need this functionality will need to turn to mods.

[BeeGeenie]

Pretty sure Kerbnet is a series of tubes invented by Algore Kerman.

 

I, for one, welcome our new stock ScanSat.

[samstarman5]

On 8/20/2016 at 7:31 PM, Maximus97 said:

Wow, you can set waypoints with it? That'll be excellent.

Indeed. For those locations you spot from orbit that you find of particular interest, you can mark and then send an aircraft or ballistic jumper to with more precision than a rough guesstimate that you could only do before.

[magnemoe]

On 21.8.2016 at 5:39 PM, Chemp said:

For my part, I agree with you that a more permanent way to access biomes would be nice. As @Kermanzooming mentioned, Kerbnet will give us the ability to see them, although not permanently. You can always get a sceenshot though or print out @Cyriak's maps. Since I don't own a second display and KSP sometimes strangles itself when I Alt-Tab out, I'm going with the latter option.

From last week's devnotes:

That's a feature I'm very interested in. It can be implemented in a large variety of ways, from ore concentrations to detecting Eastereggs, and I guess it will take some time to get used to all the changes it brings in.

Yes scan and get biome overlay like you get on ore concentration after scanning, Else the medium ore scanning sensor give biome information in it map, very nice for doing science from orbit. The short range sensor tells that biome you fly over even in high orbit too. 

[Aegolius13]

So it only works if you have a probe core, not just a manned vessel?  I get that probe cores are now going to be constrained by the communications network.  But it does seem odd that they're otherwise making probe cores even better, considering they're currently far superior for just about everything but a few science tasks.  

Of course, even most of my manned craft tend to have a probe core anyway, so maybe it's not that big of a deal.  

[Corona688]

Is this waypoint thing the same as, independent of, or completely replacing manuever nodes?  Duplicate competing features is not a good thing.

Edited September 9, 2016 by Corona688

[GoSlash27]

On 8/21/2016 at 5:22 PM, Geschosskopf said:

Indubitably.  Building a large base, that you intend to make the lynchpin of your exploitation of the planet, is a major project that absolutely has to be in the best location.  Unless you have a full map, complete with resource overlays, you can't possibly make an informed decision.

 

I don't see that being practical, due to the small footprint of each satellite's display.  The sheer number of satellites required, and the inability to achieve the necessary precision in their placement to keep them arranged as desired, seem to rule against that.  So I think you'd still be stuck with a very short time to look at any given spot on the ground, and then have to wait days to weeks (depending on number of satellites) before a satellite flew over that spot again.

BTW, the display in the GIF above looks like that of the NBS, but I don't see an NBS on the satellite.  Does the new dish antenna have NBS functionality?  Or does KerbNet give that sort of display to every probe core, only it just doesn't show resources?

Actually, it's not that difficult to get perfect placement in your constellations. It's a matter of launching them on a single bus and using resonance to space them.
 You can plant strings of 6 sats in polar orbit, 1 string every 60° rotation. This would give you a sat in view of every point on the surface at all times.

Best,
-Slashy

[Ignath]

24 minutes ago, Corona688 said:

Is this waypoint thing the same as, independent of, or completely replacing manuever nodes?  Duplicate competing features is not a good thing.

Waypoints have nothing to do with Maneuver Nodes.  They are 2 separate things entirely and for 2 different purposes.

Waypoints are used to mark a spot of interest on the planet, while maneuver nodes are used to mark a spot in your orbit which you want to burn/maneuver in some manner.

[Jimmidii]

24 minutes ago, Corona688 said:

Is this waypoint thing the same as, independent of, or completely replacing manuever nodes?  Duplicate competing features is not a good thing.

As I understand it, it lets the player put down a waypoint that's treated the same as the waypoints used for location based missions in career mode.

[Superfluous J]

3 hours ago, GoSlash27 said:

Actually, it's not that difficult to get perfect placement in your constellations. It's a matter of launching them on a single bus and using resonance to space them.
 You can plant strings of 6 sats in polar orbit, 1 string every 60° rotation. This would give you a sat in view of every point on the surface at all times.

Best,
-Slashy

While it's (relatively) trivial to get them initially set up this way, it is impossible without editing the save (or using Hyperedit or the like) to keep them from wandering slowly from that setup. I suppose you could do little correction burns but... ew.