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Singing Capacitors/Tranistors during load


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Not sure where to post this but;

As the game is loading, it hits a point where the loading bar pauses (at loading asset bundle definitions), and during this pause the capacitors/transistors on my graphics card sing...well wail might be a better description. As soon as the loading progress continues they stop.  And that's the only time they make a sound. 
It's also only in windows. In Linux with a game with the exact same setup it doesn't happen. 
Just wondering if anyone else has noticed this effect? And if anyone has any theories why it might be happening (especially as no other game causes it and it doesn't happen when loading KSP in linux). 

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Through a wormhole you hear the screams of kerbals from their distant galaxy.

Seriously make a video and capture this sound.  At the very least we should be able to determine the frequency and discover if some kind of harmonic resonance is created within the SMPS.

P.S. I am not an actual electronic engineer I just play one in a video game.

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There's a very simple reason for this - the framerate of the game is not capped until the game reaches the main menu.  On my system I'm seeing framerates in the order of 1800 fps while it is loading.

This has previously been an issue in Space Engineers (see here) and Satellite Reign, both of which capped the framerates to address the issue.

I'd hope to see this addressed by the devs asap.

EDIT:

To correlate with what Val is reporting below, I can confirm that I too have set the game to limit fps to 60 and enable vsync from the options menu, both of which seem to be ignored while the game loads.

Edited by pxi
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16 minutes ago, pxi said:

There's a very simple reason for this - the framerate of the game is not capped until the game reaches the main menu.  On my system I'm seeing framerates in the order of 1800 fps while it is loading.

I see this, too. FRAPS is showing >2800 fps at that point, even though I have both Vsync and frame limiting enabled in KSP settings.

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Even if you did get thousands of frames per second, it still shouldn't make the graphics card 'sing' should it? It would only output as many frames as it can handle. Does it make noises when it is under strain any other times?

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8 hours ago, pxi said:

I'd hope to see this addressed by the devs asap.

very much this. It can't be good for the card!

8 hours ago, pxi said:

I too have set the game to limit fps to 60 and enable vsync from the options menu

8 hours ago, Val said:

even though I have both Vsync and frame limiting enabled in KSP settings

Is that with Vsync set on the graphics card divers or just from KSP settings?
I'll try making a KSP profile for my graphics driver and setting vsync on that.

 

2 hours ago, worir4 said:

Does it make noises when it is under strain any other times?

No, this is the only time it make the noise. Doesn't do it at other points in KSP or in other games. And interestingly doesn't do it in KSP when running in Linux. 

I've just upgraded my machine, but this is the same graphics card I had before and previous versions of KSP didn't cause this on my old setup.  I shall have to try 1.1.3 again on the new setup and see if that causes it too.

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My graphics card does the same thing at the AssetBundle loading stage.  GTX-970, slightly overclocked.  I know it is the card, and it does it in other games when it is heavily loaded.  On Win10 if it matters.

Google 'GTX 970 coil whine' for examples details -- its a real thing, and quite annoying.


Now, should it be doing that at the KSP loading screen?  No.  I have V-sync enabled, but for some reason it ignores it on the loading screen and pushes out >1000 FPS -- I have a feeling this is due to their asynch asset-bundle loading code that skips the 'wait for frame time' on the main rendering thread -- instead it renders as many frames as it can while waiting for the asset-bundle thread to finish loading, and as it is such a simple screen/scene, it can push absurd frame-rates while not waiting for CPU. 

Simple solution is to put the 'wait for vsynch' / 'wait for next frame' code back into the main loading/rendering thread.  However I have a feeling that this would slow down asset-loading, as then it could load at most a single item per frame (as most of the loading code happens on the main thread).

 

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Some computers are poorly designed, and RF noise, including noise carrying audible frequencies, leaks into sound card, get amplified and sent into speakers or headphones. Computer's RF noise is highly depended  on current activities of all the hardware systems.

For example, PC at my workplace suffers from this illness - when no music playing, I can clearly hear all kinds of "modem-like sounds" via headphones.

Saved file in editor? Burst of random sounds. Compiling project? I can literally hear gcc at work.

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RF Noise can leak directly into the speakers if they aren't shielded well.  I used to have a pair of junk speakers that would pick up trucker CB radios from the nearby city loop.

It was kind of spooky at times, I'd be in the house all by myself and suddenly someone starts talking.

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11 minutes ago, WildLynx said:

Some computers are poorly designed, and RF noise, including noise carrying audible frequencies, leaks into sound card, get amplified and sent into speakers or headphones. Computer's RF noise is highly depended  on current activities of all the hardware systems.

For example, PC at my workplace suffers from this illness - when no music playing, I can clearly hear all kinds of "modem-like sounds" via headphones.

Saved file in editor? Burst of random sounds. Compiling project? I can literally hear gcc at work.

You make me wanna perform surgery on my laptop to cripple any shielding it might have to prevent that :D 

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9 minutes ago, Alshain said:

RF Noise can leak directly into the speakers if they aren't shielded well.  I used to have a pair of junk speakers that would pick up trucker CB radios from the nearby city loop.

It was kind of spooky at times, I'd be in the house all by myself and suddenly someone starts talking.

Speakers are one thing, but when computer "sings" like dial-up modem, it's probably the case of internal interference. Never had it in the times of standalone Sound Blaster cards, but now all the sound cards are internal and "activity noise" is common occurrence.

 

1 minute ago, monstah said:

You make me wanna perform surgery on my laptop to cripple any shielding it might have to prevent that :D 

Don't' do it, sound is  very unpleasant.

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Just now, WildLynx said:

Speakers are one thing, but when computer "sings" like dial-up modem, it's probably the case of internal interference. Never had it in the times of standalone Sound Blaster cards, but now all the sound cards are internal and "activity noise" is common occurrence.

I agree.  I buy ASUS motherboards almost exclusively so I've never had the issue myself, but I've heard of other people with cheapo motherboards having the problem.

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On 10/17/2016 at 11:41 PM, katateochi said:

As the game is loading, it hits a point where the loading bar pauses (at loading asset bundle definitions), and during this pause the capacitors/transistors on my graphics card sing...well wail might be a better description. As soon as the loading progress continues they stop.  And that's the only time they make a sound. 
It's also only in windows. In Linux with a game with the exact same setup it doesn't happen. 
Just wondering if anyone else has noticed this effect? And if anyone has any theories why it might be happening (especially as no other game causes it and it doesn't happen when loading KSP in linux).

I haven't experienced the sound, though I too noticed KSP ignoring the vsync/framerate caps when it feels like (not just on the loading screen, it seems to have its own ideas of framerates on other scenes in the game too).

I've read of the coil whine phenomenon a few times, it does appear to be real and incredibly specific to the hardware.

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5 hours ago, WildLynx said:

Some computers are poorly designed, and RF noise, including noise carrying audible frequencies, leaks into sound card, get amplified and sent into speakers or headphones

That is definitely a thing, but not what happening in this case. The noise is coming directly off the graphics card

 

5 hours ago, Alshain said:

I used to have a pair of junk speakers that would pick up trucker CB radios from the nearby city loop

I used to have that happen with an old set of speakers too, except it was very faint french radio.  At first I thought I'd actually gone insane!

 

5 hours ago, Alshain said:

I agree.  I buy ASUS motherboards almost exclusively

Same. I've just put an Asus Rampage V extreme into my machine, had a Rampage III extreme before that, just fantastic boards. 

 

 

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I know that my video card lets me hard-define certain graphics settings like vsync and framerate cap in the graphics control panel, but by default is left to "let application decide". You might check and see if you can change it there. Of course, Squad devs should still fix this at some point, but it should be a functional workaround in the meantime.

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4 hours ago, Jarin said:

I know that my video card lets me hard-define certain graphics settings like vsync and framerate cap in the graphics control panel, but by default is left to "let application decide". You might check and see if you can change it there. Of course, Squad devs should still fix this at some point, but it should be a functional workaround in the meantime.

I've had a look at this, I can force vsync through the nvidia control panel, but I don't see any option for framerate cap.  To make sure I'm not missing something, I've updated to the latest version of the driver package.  I've also looked in Gforce Experience as well, but there doesn't seem to be a game-ready profile for KSP, so nothing to fiddle with there.

If anyone can point me in the right direction to find a place to set the frame-rate cap outside of KSP I'd appreciate it.

Forcing vsync for ksp_x64.exe through the nvidia settings doesn't seem to have an appreciable benefit - I'm seeing slightly lower framerates overall, but it's still peaking around 1800fps as before.  Sadly it appears this won't be a workaround, at least for me.

GTX-960 here, and I'm also a member of the ASUS motherboard club.

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5 hours ago, pxi said:

If anyone can point me in the right direction to find a place to set the frame-rate cap outside of KSP I'd appreciate it.

I've been using an open source utility called 'NVidia Inspector' (more recently split into two apps, the 'NVidia Profile Inspector' is the one to use now, the other is for overclocking and monitoring the card). The Profile Inspector gives direct editing access to the driver profiles, including framerate caps and much much more.

Download link to latest stable: http://www.guru3d.com/files-details/nvidia-profile-inspector-download.html

Latest but maybe not so stable build: https://ci.appveyor.com/project/Orbmu2k/nvidiaprofileinspector/build/artifacts

Sources: https://github.com/Orbmu2k/nvidiaProfileInspector

When you start it, at the top left you can select one of the existing driver profiles to edit. Or you can create a fresh new profile (the little yellow sun icon, top center). Before doing anything, I'd advise to export a full backup of the profiles (green arrow up icon slightly more right) so you can always return to default.

The frame rate limiter / vsync parameters can be found right at the top in section 2 - Sync and Refresh. Changing is as simple as clicking and selecting one of the optional values, or typing if it requires a hex value. Remember to Apply Changes when you're done (top right).

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36 minutes ago, swjr-swis said:

I've been using an open source utility called 'NVidia Inspector' (more recently split into two apps, the 'NVidia Profile Inspector' is the one to use now, the other is for overclocking and monitoring the card). The Profile Inspector gives direct editing access to the driver profiles, including framerate caps and much much more.

Download link to latest stable: http://www.guru3d.com/files-details/nvidia-profile-inspector-download.html

That indeed does the job.  Much appreciated!

Have capped my fps at 100.  With reference to some theories posted earlier in the thread it doesn't seem to affect loading times too much - it's possible it's loading slower, I've not gotten the stopwatch out but it's certainly not 16x slower.  I'm quite happy to declare workaround found on my end.

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1 hour ago, pxi said:

That indeed does the job.  Much appreciated!

Have capped my fps at 100.  With reference to some theories posted earlier in the thread it doesn't seem to affect loading times too much - it's possible it's loading slower, I've not gotten the stopwatch out but it's certainly not 16x slower.  I'm quite happy to declare workaround found on my end.

Would you mind detailing exactly what profiles and settings you changed?

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Sure!

Within the Nvidia Contol Panel go to Manage 3D Settings -> Program Settings.  You'll see a dropdown list containing profiles for games and programs on your system.  If you don't see Kerbal Space Program (ksp_x64.exe) listed click the Add button, and you should be able to add it from there.

Having found/created a profile for KSP you can then set Vertical Sync ON near the bottom of the program settings list.  (I suspect this particular setting is unnecessary, but it is a setting I changed, so listing it here.)

Next, having downloaded Nvidia Inspector from the link kindly provided by @swjr-swis (the version I used - stable - is in the portion I quoted) extract the Zip File and run nvidiaProfileInspector.exe

You'll find an entry for Kerbal Space Program within the Profiles dropdown list.  Having selected it, verify that within the green bar just below the profiles you see ksp_x64.exe

In 2 - Sync and Refresh change Frame Rate Limiter to a setting that suits you, I went for ~99.5fps

Click the Apply Changes button at the top.

Cross fingers, pray to any deities you think might help, and start KSP.

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10 hours ago, pxi said:

I've had a look at this, I can force vsync through the nvidia control panel, but I don't see any option for framerate cap.  To make sure I'm not missing something, I've updated to the latest version of the driver package.  I've also looked in Gforce Experience as well, but there doesn't seem to be a game-ready profile for KSP, so nothing to fiddle with there.

Huh, I could have sworn I saw it in there, but I can't find it now either. Glad to hear that Profile Inspector has picked up the slack, though.

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22 hours ago, Alshain said:

RF Noise can leak directly into the speakers if they aren't shielded well.  I used to have a pair of junk speakers that would pick up trucker CB radios from the nearby city loop.

It was kind of spooky at times, I'd be in the house all by myself and suddenly someone starts talking.

A true test of sanity is realizing where such things come from, and not just freaking out. Great that you found out the cause. :)

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9 hours ago, swjr-swis said:

This has sorted it! nice 1 thanks!
Just setting vsync on in the nvidia control panel had no effect, but this tool did the job,

9 hours ago, pxi said:

Have capped my fps at 100.  With reference to some theories posted earlier in the thread it doesn't seem to affect loading times too much - it's possible it's loading slower, I've not gotten the stopwatch out but it's certainly not 16x slower.

I capped mine and 120fps and timed it.  From clicking on the exe to the moment the main menu appears; without the cap, KSP loaded in ~40 seconds (I do have some mods installed).  With the cap at 120 it loaded in ~50 seconds. So yes, definitely not 16x slower.  I'm happy to trade ten seconds for not having my graphics card crying out in pain!

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