[Minimum KSP: 1.12.2] Heisenberg - Airships Part Pack

[vardicd]

7 minutes ago, Shnyrik said:

Sure, why not. Here it is.

Here, I believe, except for Heisenberg and Buffalo I used only Navigation lights, TweakScale and Airplane Plus (with TweakScale patch). But I should warn that I have tons of mods, so I could have forgotten some

I've got those except for tweakscale. that might be a problem. one of my other mods conflicts with tweak scale so I don't use that one.

I'd actually almost managed to build a version of my own, experimenting, I just couldn't figure out how to handle the power demands of those ducted fans on that little ship

Edited June 23, 2017 by vardicd

[Shnyrik]

13 minutes ago, vardicd said:

just couldn't figure out how to handle the power demands of those ducted fans on that little ship

Only one little turbine is needed (I have two because I also use DangIt).

The easiest way is to tune it in test flight. First you reduce turbine's thrust using thrust limit to get the right amount of power. Then you set the thrust limit in hangar.

[vardicd]

41 minutes ago, Shnyrik said:

Only one little turbine is needed (I have two because I also use DangIt).

The easiest way is to tune it in test flight. First you reduce turbine's thrust using thrust limit to get the right amount of power. Then you set the thrust limit in hangar.

I must be using the wrong ducted fan then. the ones I tried using each needed 51 electric charge per second, while the little turbine only produced 1 per second.

[JewelShisen]

On 6/22/2017 at 8:07 PM, EFYN said:

I put the Hooligan labs in gamedata with firespitter and Heisenberg but it is still not generating lift. Also the Hooligan Labs once placed in editor cannot be grabbed and when in game they fall through the ground. Firespitter is up to date and I have the latest modulemanager. What is happening lol

That very much sounds like a bad install of HL.

[Shnyrik]

I'll just leave it here as a small preview on how to operate fighter jets from flying aircraft carriers  

I had to give up the catapult in favor of the ski-jump, because in 1.3 catapult tends to break ALG.

This new docking system might seem a bit crazy, but after a series of explosions I've come to conclusion that in 1.3 ALG is even a bit more unstable, than in was in 1.2.2. And hanging jet above the floor is the most reliable way to prevent it's gear from breaking apart in the most inappropriate moment.

Edited July 2, 2017 by Shnyrik

[Angelo Kerman]

3 hours ago, Shnyrik said:

I'll just leave it here as a small preview on how to operate fighter jets from flying aircraft carriers  

I had to give up the catapult in favor of the ski-jump, because in 1.3 catapult tends to break ALG.

This new docking system might seem a bit crazy, but after a series of explosions I've come to conclusion that in 1.3 ALG is even a bit more unstable, than in was in 1.2.2. And hanging jet above the floor is the most reliable way to prevent it's gear from breaking apart in the most inappropriate moment.

Looks great! I 've also been meaning to make a ski jump...

[Dark_Derp]

I'm building a new PC right now and when I'm finished I will make an airship that resembles the Pandora from Crimson Skies with working docking system using either docking ports or the claw combined Infernal Robotics and maybe find a use for KAS. I will upload a few pictures when finished.

I do however need to get used to this mod and basically learn how to properly use it

Edited July 2, 2017 by Dark_Derp
forgot to add something

[NuclearNut]

I love the mod and recently sent an airship to the north pole and discovered how incredibly efficient the airships in the game are as I used up less than 10% of the fuel that I had taken with me while making speeds of around 30 m/s (I found that lower airspeeds are exponentially more efficient than higher ones for obvious reasons).  The trip was mostly accomplished by using mechjeb to allow me to fly without watching it as it cruised at over 4 000  meters above the surface.

Images of the flight

Spoiler

KZ-27 preparing for launch.

KZ-27 leaving KSC.

KZ-27 at cruising altitude as it leaves KSC.

Two pictures of KZ-27 at the start of the second day of flying.

 

 

The KZ-27 cruises at low altitude over the polar icecap.

The crew inspects KZ-27 after arriving at the north pole.

 

 

[Mark Kerbin]

Anyone Have Any Pre Build Airships? All Of Mine Cant Seem To Stay Level

 

[Angelo Kerman]

32 minutes ago, Mark Kerbin said:

Anyone Have Any Pre Build Airships? All Of Mine Cant Seem To Stay Level

 

The mod comes with pre-built sample craft, in the SampleCraft folder. Just copy them into your save, and you're good to go.

[Mark Kerbin]

Oh Thanks, I Installed Via CKAN So i didn't actually check the folder, so Im not always this clueless.

 

[Angelo Kerman]

On 7/14/2017 at 4:23 AM, Mark Kerbin said:

Oh Thanks, I Installed Via CKAN So i didn't actually check the folder, so Im not always this clueless.

 

You installed Heisenberg via CKAN??? If that is the case, I need to make sure @linuxgurugamer knows that Heisenberg and none of my other mods are NOT allowed on CKAN.

Edited July 16, 2017 by Angel-125

[linuxgurugamer]

2 minutes ago, Angel-125 said:

You installed Heisenberg via CKAN??? If that is the case, I need to make sure @linuxgurugamer knows that Heisenberg and none of my other mods are allowe on CKAN.

Ummm, I don't see it in CKAN

4 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Ummm, I don't see it in CKAN

I've checked CKAN for this mod, it's not there.  I even looked in all the .netkan files, trying to see if someone added it without permission.  It's not there.

[linuxgurugamer]

How well does this play with the Hooligan Labs Airships mod?  

Uugh.  The Uugh is my not reading before posting.

Appears that this is more of an add-on for it

Edited July 16, 2017 by linuxgurugamer

[Mark Kerbin]

Hmm, may have confused it with hooligan labs

Sorry For Confusion 

[Shnyrik]

It’s time for the promised story of how to operate jets from carrier airship.

I somehow managed to delete my save folder, so in comparison with the preview picture there will be a bit different airship and a bit different jets

But that is for good, because I’ve managed to discover that in 1.3 stock wheels don’t bounce during undocking any more. That allows docking in a much simpler and more good-looking way. Besides, part of my problems with ALG’s instability was actually caused by Configurable containers mod

 

For the beginning some theory.

First of all I can only agree with @panarchist’s proposition that kerbal carrier airships would operate much similar to pre-angled deck carriers.

However there still are some differences, caused mainly by inevitable constructive differences between naval vessel and airship.

1) Airship carrier is smaller than naval one and it’s flight deck is also much smaller.

2) Airship (no matter how big it is) is by it’s nature much-much-much lighter than any naval vessel. And due to that reason it is more sensitive to balance changes caused by airplanes driving along it’s flight deck.

3) Despite it’s behemoth-like appearance carrier airship is actually much faster then any of it’s naval colleagues.

The constructive differences lead to different design and tactics of use.

Let’s start from the elevator. For pocket carrier side elevator is the only choice, as it saves a lot of hangar space. There is only one nuance with it. Sometimes (especially after you load saved game) it’s animation may stuck. The reliable way to avoid this is to stow and then deploy the elevator right after you load from save.

Now about storing planes in hangar and preparing them for take-off on flight deck.

Considering balance issues, you would probably like to store your planes as close to the geometrical center of your airship as possible. The ideal place for your maintenance area is also right above the geometrical center and the center of mass.

And, of course, you can play with counterweights to keep balance. See the picture below

Now about take-offs and landings.

I wouldn’t probably say something refreshingly new right now, but conventional landing on a very small deck is not an easy task

There are some ways to make it easier:
1) you can build planes with low landing speed,
2) you can train
and actually
3) you can build a supercarrier with a relatively big and wide flight deck

Maybe we’ll speak about supercarriers some day later, but if we speak about small pocket carriers none of the above gives reliable results.

Of course you can just give up using conventional planes and use VTOL planes or helicopters instead. But easy way is not a kerbal way

So the only remaining decision is to invent some unconventional way to land a conventional plane And it’s now time to remember of airship’s advantage over it’s naval colleagues: speed.

Naval carriers do use speed to help planes to take off. But airship is actually capable of flying at  plane’s landing speed (or even faster). So instead of landing you can “dock” the plane to the flight deck with a very low relative speed. Very much like actual planes docked with USS Akron and USS Macon or like modern jets “dock” with flying tanker.

And this leads to a sudden discovery: you don’t actually need flight deck to land on a pocket carrier  

And that in turn leads to sudden design solutions  

1) Your flight deck will be used mainly to park your planes and to launch them, so it needn’t actually be longer then is needed for your plane to take off.

2) You can place your catapult in the rear end of your short flight deck.

3) Your plane don’t need runway to land, due to low relative speed arresting wire will stop it immediately after it touched down. So you can place the arresting wire right over the center of mass of your airship right in the middle of your flight deck – that will insure than newly landed plane won’t affect airship’s balance.

Summing all above, for the most rational use of your flight deck space you should place your catapult BEFORE your landing area. In the scheme flight deck of your pocket carrier might look like this:

Of course this means you cannot launch and land planes at the same time, but it’s OK for KSP

There is an even more rational and at the same time more kerbal layout of the flight deck: you can put your catapult at the fore end and your ski-jump at the rear. So landing plane won’t have to jump over the one preparing for take-off.

But enough theory, let’s have some practice  I've added my comments as subtitles.

 

You might notice, that despite my own recommendations, I do have long flight deck. There are two reasons: 1) my small and slow biplanes are actually capable of conventional landing on this training carrier, but they need long flight deck for that; 2) my training planes are supposed to imitate some early age jets and have low TWR and acceleration, they need long runway to take off.

I only use one counterweight. That is because if you park planes on parking “slots” in numerical order only one counterweight is enough. And to be completely honest, my jets are light (they weight about 4 tons each) and my airship is rather heavy (it weights more than 200 tons), so jets can’t actually spoil balance too much and I don’t need that counterweight at all

[panarchist]

1 hour ago, Shnyrik said:

 

You might notice, that despite my own recommendations, I do have long flight deck. There are two reasons: 1) my small and slow biplanes are actually capable of conventional landing on this training carrier, but they need long flight deck for that; 2) my training planes are supposed to imitate some early age jets and have low TWR and acceleration, they need long runway to take off.

I only use one counterweight. That is because if you park planes on parking “slots” in numerical order only one counterweight is enough. And to be completely honest, my jets are light (they weight about 4 tons each) and my airship is rather heavy (it weights more than 200 tons), so jets can’t actually spoil balance too much and I don’t need that counterweight at all

That's pretty awesome - outstanding video and writeup, I don't know if I need to finish working on mine now.  ;-)

A couple comments:

A "realistic" carrier using a catapult and arresting gear wouldn't overlap them - it wouldn't work in real life for various reasons, but mostly due to arresting cables strung across the deck. It worked with WWII straight deck carriers, but was never done again in the jet age once catapults were available.  But this is KSP, so there's no reason not to if it's believable to the builder.

I haven't needed much in the way of counterweights because like you, I have light planes and a heavy airship.  Another way to minimize it is having a lot of weight on the centerline at the bottom (I use long gondolas) - this counters the rotation tendency since that weight will want to stay at the bottom.

I haven't had much time to work on my notes and create a video - too much work, and distractions.

Oh, and what aircraft parts are you using for your planes?  I see Infernal Robotics at work for the folding wings, but I don't recognize all the parts.  And where did the deck edge pieces come from?  They definitely look like the safety netting on RL carriers - really makes for a great-looking ship!

[NeoFatalis]

9 minutes ago, panarchist said:

Oh, and what aircraft parts are you using for your planes?  I see Infernal Robotics at work for the folding wings, but I don't recognize all the parts.  And where did the deck edge pieces come from?  They definitely look like the safety netting on RL carriers - really makes for a great-looking ship!

I can see that the wings are from "B9 procedural wings" mod and I'm pretty sure that the deck edge pieces are from the main B9 mod

[Shnyrik]

23 minutes ago, panarchist said:

A "realistic" carrier using a catapult and arresting gear wouldn't overlap them

Yes. This is a bit unrealistic.

And besides, the fact that launch and landing area intersect bothers me. So now I'm thinking of a rail launch system. Something like that:

 

23 minutes ago, panarchist said:

Oh, and what aircraft parts are you using for your planes?  I see Infernal Robotics at work for the folding wings, but I don't recognize all the parts.  And where did the deck edge pieces come from?

B9 procedural wings, procedural parts, L-39 cockpit from Airplane cockpits and MAD Aerospace for intakes.

Edge pieces are also from B9 mod.

Edited July 22, 2017 by Shnyrik

[panarchist]

13 minutes ago, Shnyrik said:

Yes. This is a bit unrealistic.

And besides, the fact that launch and landing area intersect bothers me. So now I'm thinking of a rail launch system. Something like that:

That would be pretty awesome.  To be fair, though, I might say "unrealistic", but if you look into the history of world naval aviation, pretty much every "unrealistic" thing was tried at some point, and that's totally in the spirit of KSP.

[Angelo Kerman]

@Shnyrik is the master of flying aircraft carriers! The KSNS Akron, as fun as it is with my tilt-rotor craft, doesn't compare. Without his early attempts at putting a flight deck atop the airship hulls, the carrier parts wouldn't even exist. His early creations are on the walls of the hangar deck ready room for that reason. If I can hurry up and finish my latest project, I can create a retractable ski jump for the carrier parts, and look at making wide-body (more like multi-body) hulls so you can drastically cut down the number of parts you need for the KSS Long Beach, for instance.As much as I like that carrier, it kills frame rates... Thanks again for the demo, @Shnyrik I"m linking your post to the front page.

[adsii1970]

@Shnyrik - what mod are you using to get the redish color?

[Shnyrik]

13 hours ago, adsii1970 said:

what mod are you using to get the redish color?

I use B9 procedural wings, which can be painted, and for hull I use procedural parts with modified texture from Kerbal Hacks mod.

This are the modified textures (blue, red and stockalike light grey):
https://www.dropbox.com/preview/KerbalHacks.zip

And this is the source:

 

Edited July 23, 2017 by Shnyrik

[panarchist]

@Shnyrik - thanks to your video, I was finally able to figure out how to properly do things in the right order to have both the plane I launched and the airship in motion at the same time.  So I was finally able to land a fixed wing jet on my airship without blowing anything up.  Unfortunately, I was not able to successfully park the plane after disconnecting from the arresting cable, but that's an easier problem to fix.  It is much, MUCH easier to land at 20-25m/s of relative speed than 60-80m/s.

[Havok]

In this mod the Heisenberg folder is causing the game to crash when loading, if I remove the folder from the WildBlueIndustries folder the game will load. I moved all mods game data folders to the KSP game data and I have the HL airships mod installed. Also In the game the tab to get airship parts gives me parts for the Buffalo vehicle.