No More Science Points! - A 1.2 Modlist Separating Science From Tech Research

[Wjolcz]

Here's @inigma's thread. Go check it out if you want to experience his idea of a commercial space program, or stay here and have a read if you want a lite version of it.

 

FIRST, GO GRAB THESE MODS:

- Historical Progression Tech Tree by @pap1723 (I think the name is self-explanatory)
- Monthly Budgets by @severedsolo (Grants you monthly capped budgets based on your reputation and keeps the track of the space program upkeep costs)
- KerboKatz - SmallUtilities by @SpaceTiger (For the science-to-funds and funds-to-science exchange widget)
- Kerbal Engineer Redux by @cybutek (We all know what this one does)
- Kerbal Alarm Clock by @TriggerAu (Great for managing manouvers, interplanetary transfer windows, SOI changes and many more)
- Strategia by @nightingale (Let's you directly influence the themes of misions) <- This mod is actually not very useful here. Unless it gets a rebalance to fit this mod list.

You can get most of these^^^ on CKAN.

Now for the settings. I did this:

Quote

 

As you can see this is not 100% scienceless career mode, but it's close enough. This mod compilation let's me pick clearly separated paths, "buy" the nodes and get paid based on my reputation. I'm still looking for a contracts pack that directly generates missions about performing science experiments whoch grant reputation. For now I'm playing with the Field Rearch pack, but I hope Strategia will be sufficient once it's updated.

My overall experience is that this kind of career is very nicely balanced compared to the stock game. I'm somewhere halfway through the tree, but that's because I didn't have much time recently to play the game. I will be updating this thread and the OP as I add and subtract mods. If you decide to set everything the way I did let me know what you think, what could be problematic and what could be changed or added.

EDIT: Shoutout to the modders who made this possible. They are true heroes.

Have fun!

Edited December 21, 2016 by Veeltch

[linuxgurugamer]

Why don't you add the CTT, and drop the historical progression?   CTT is much more logical 

[Wjolcz]

On 28/10/2016 at 1:15 AM, linuxgurugamer said:

Why don't you add the CTT, and drop the historical progression?   CTT is much more logical 

What I can tell by the layout of CTT is that it seems like an extended stock tree that branches out more and more. I prefer the layout of Historical Progression Tech Tree because it gives me a lot more choices right after the first node, unlike it is with CTT.

Edit: from the thread:

Quote

Q: Why isn't this realistic? There's still manned pods first!
A: The goal of this project is not to redo the tech tree, it's to extend it. Redoing the tree is beyond scope. There are many other works doing this already.

Yeah, it's just the stock tree with extensions. And I hate the stock tree. If CTT just extends it and nothing else then there is no actual logic behind it. It's just more nodes.

Edited November 10, 2016 by Veeltch

[Wjolcz]

Anyone tried this mod setup yet?

I've already killed a tourist and a pilot and got a big rep hit. Now I only get half that money I was being given previously.

I don't do the contracts from the Field Research Pack, so that might as well be thrown out of the GameData folder. Also the stock contracts keep asking me to send science from Kerbin's orbit, Mun's orbit and Mun's surface. Very easy money.

About the tree progression: I think I role play a bit, so if anyone's doing a tree rush let me know if it's not too easy. What I've noticed though is waiting for the funds to arrive each day make the time progress quite a bit. It's a good thing. It kind of simulates the "research takes money and time" idea I've always wanted to have in the game.

To sum up: need better contracts (I still haven't installed Strategia) and someone to also test it out (just to confirm it's not too easy and not too hard) as I like to role play my career games. Overall good stuff so far. Definitely better than stock.

Edited November 10, 2016 by Veeltch

[Wjolcz]

Another update.

I've noticed that tourist orbital hop contracts give tons of reputation. I got back to my previous amount of funding by just doing two of them. The rest of the rewards seem to be fine.

Since there's no way to lower their reputation rewards in-game they'll probably have to stay that way. I guess that can be done with file editing, but I'm too lazy.

[Wjolcz]

Another thing worth noting: I hardly ever accept any contracts (only when I have a rover landed somewhere or really need reputation). This means I have the freedom of what I want to do next and in what order (WOOOOHOOOO!). World's Firsts give enough rep to keep my space program rolling.

Contracts are actual side quests now. I can decide whether I want to do them or not. That also renders the strategies even more useless than they previously were, of course. I consider it a good thing.

It's all going great. Need to broaden my horizons and stop sending probes to the Mun though. Got plenty of them there already.

Edited November 15, 2016 by Veeltch

[Wjolcz]

Strategia has been finally updated! Wooooohoooo!

[Enceos]

@Veeltch What do you think about this contract pack? Too grindy?

 

Edited November 25, 2016 by Enceos

[Wjolcz]

3 hours ago, Enceos said:

@Veeltch What do you think about this contract pack? Too grindy?

 

That's one way to deal with the ridiculous stock tech tree. I haven't tried that mod. Tried another one which does a similar thing. It was ok, but I prefer seeing where I'm going with my research.

Edited November 25, 2016 by Veeltch

[Wjolcz]

Bad news: Strategia is clearly not made for this whole mod setup. I'm on my way to perform a Moho flyby, but the "Planetary Fly-bys" strategy is not available for me yet (not enough reputation) and the "Moho Probes" strategy wants me to land 3 probes on the surface of Moho. I'm not doing that (land first, fly-by later? really?). Not yet, at least.

So to sum up: Strategia is pretty much useless with all of this. I would have to edit the settings to make it all work well. And balancing it would not be easy, nor do I have time to do that.

Edited November 25, 2016 by Veeltch

[monstah]

@Veeltch Strategia's planet-based strategies are one-time use only, so they are designed to "burn out" that body (the three landings); what you want is probably more like "activate this strategy to have all missions focus on this body". I guess Strategia could be configured that way, but I've never looked under its hood.

[Wjolcz]

Just now, monstah said:

@Veeltch Strategia's planet-based strategies are one-time use only, so they are designed to "burn out" that body (the three landings); what you want is probably more like "activate this strategy to have all missions focus on this body". I guess Strategia could be configured that way, but I've never looked under its hood.

Something like this would be ideal. For now World's Firsts work just fine.

[Wjolcz]

It's really fun picking your own objectives and not having to grind for parts:

 

Edited December 21, 2016 by Veeltch

[monstah]

On 27/10/2016 at 3:36 PM, Veeltch said:

I'm still looking for a contracts pack that directly generates missions about performing science experiments whoch grant reputation. For now I'm playing with the Field Rearch pack, but I hope Strategia will be sufficient once it's updated.

I don't know how open Strategia is to changing its strategies by config files, but you could change, for example, the To Boldly Go strategies to give a massive boost to rep instead of science.

[Wjolcz]

1 hour ago, monstah said:

I don't know how open Strategia is to changing its strategies by config files, but you could change, for example, the To Boldly Go strategies to give a massive boost to rep instead of science.

Thanks for a tip. I'll look into that.

[Kaue_]

what do you think about this mod?

i am playing with it to see if it's useful.

also, look at my little ship

Edited December 21, 2016 by Kaue_

[Wjolcz]

On 21/12/2016 at 9:26 PM, Kaue_ said:

what do you think about this mod?

i am playing with it to see if it's useful.

also, look at my little ship

Meh. I don't like science points in any form, doesn't matter if they're for upgrading or unlocking things. But since the KerboKatz exchange widget has the ability to buy them then it might work out nicely with the modpack. I like to keep it clean and basic though. If anyone thinks there's a mod that could enhance the gameplay and you've tried it with all these mods from OP please do say so.

Nice sounding rocket.

[nascarlaser1]

If you use ETT (engineering tech tree) you can get the same effect as the historical one.

[Wjolcz]

21 hours ago, nascarlaser1 said:

If you use ETT (engineering tech tree) you can get the same effect as the historical one.

Probably. But I like the simplicity of the one I use. It's very easy to clearly identify what is in which branch in HPTT.

Edited December 29, 2016 by Veeltch

[Wjolcz]

UPDATE: I killed another pilot. And I like how that influences my career playthrough. Here's why:

Killing a crew member means a reputation hit. Since funds are based on the reputation each month it means every time a mishap happens I have to consider setbacks involved. For example: If I get 800k every month then it's not enough to upgrade the R&D to the 3rd level (that's my current goal). I kill a pilot and now it's only 600k per month. It means I have to spend more time rising my rep and waiting for the funds to accumulate. If I hit the 550 science points node wall and I want to keep researching stuff I have two options: do high rep missions (to get to the 2.6mil funds) or do new stuff (World's Firsts). Or both, since they both rise reputation. In my head it simulates this whole "A disaster happened and a crew member died, but look! I also did something nobody has done before! PLZ DON'T CUT MY FUNDING ;_;". So I guess getting to the goal funding level can be considered a bit grindy (especially when someone is rather reckless), but at the same time it's easier to lose the game than it is in stock. And it really makes you think about kerbals (since killing them has such a big impact on your gameplay and how fast you progress) unlike it is in stock.

I think I'm repeating myself but I just can't argue against how much better than stock this is.

[Jacke]

Finding your progression interesting.  I too want a better KSP career.

I hate that so many games, KSP included, go for an purchase model of R&D where in one way or another you earn science points and use them as an alternate currency to buy arbitrary tech.  Tech should improve by actual research, development, and using items; learning by doing, not buying.

I think I might be able to make a better KSP career using Contract Configurator and making special contracts or sequences of contracts where the actions to fulfill the contracts is the doing that represents the R&D that unlocks tech.

[John FX]

I`ll give this a go. Have you thought about Kerbal Construction Time which would give the feeling of actually researching a node and that research taking time?

I find in my RO install that the feeling of researching a tech node is implemented quite well by it. Sometimes it can take upwards of a year.

[Wjolcz]

On 09/02/2017 at 4:52 PM, John FX said:

Have you thought about Kerbal Construction Time which would give the feeling of actually researching a node and that research taking time?

I don't feel a need for it tbh. It's simulated by the accumulation of money. May seem a bit complicated but this is how it usually goes:

Wait for money to accumulate (takes a few days) -> Buy science points -> Buy the node -> accumulate money - buy the needed parts (from the node) -> accumulate the money -> launch a rocket.

That way the time passes really nicely. Unless you have a lot of cash. I'm thinking maybe the daily income should be switched off (if possible). That would give it some extra challenge and the funds management would be much more apparent. It would allow for some interesting decision making scenarios: "Do we postpone this Jool mission launch 'til next year or disable some commsats to save more money for the mission?" or "Do we focus on tech research and hold the launches until we get better equipment or send low-tech probes this month/year instead?" and things like that.

Still looking for a mod that turns scientific instruments into reputation generators. Would make things much more realistic and give them a purpose since, with this mod setup, they are pretty much useless. Either that or a contracts pack with all the experiments listed (one contract for each body) and each one of them having reputation as the reward.

Edited February 22, 2017 by Veeltch

[John FX]

19 hours ago, Veeltch said:

a contracts pack with all the experiments listed (one contract for each body) and each one of them having reputation as the reward.

If you make them `invisible` auto contracts that would work seamlessly. I`m currently in the middle of a large hardware project but when I get back to playing I`ll try this modset out.

EDIT :

19 hours ago, Veeltch said:

I don't feel a need for it tbh. It's simulated by the accumulation of money. May seem a bit complicated but this is how it usually goes:

Wait for money to accumulate (takes a few days) -> Buy science points -> Buy the node -> accumulate money - buy the needed parts (from the node) -> accumulate the money -> launch a rocket.

That way the time passes really nicely. Unless you have a lot of cash.

I would probably play with KCT as well anyway as it forces pace even if you have a lot of cash ( I tend to have either none or loads it seems), if there are running costs on top then your remaining cash balance may run out before you get a chance to reap the rewards of spending it unless care is taken. If rockets take months to build then it would be interesting if there was a chance of not having enough money for the mission even though the rocket is built. Ideally science research would be another budget item for monthly amounts to be allocated to and science would be generated by it (and generated by `first` contracts) which could be spent on nodes which would take time to unlock. Unlocking parts would always cost cash.

I`m thinking some mix of this modset and RO/RP-0 would be very well received by a few players I can think of who want a more realistic career experience in RSS.

Edited February 23, 2017 by John FX
Had a thought