Which Life Support mod would be best for Vanilla?

[DrunkenKerbalnaut]

Assuming that you agree that Life Support should be at least a toggle-able difficulty option in stock, which mod would serve the feel and tempo of the game best? 

The inclusion of well-made mods into the vanilla experience is something we have seen before. Should @SQUAD begin considering candidate mods for Life Support, which one(s) would you prefer they look at? Why? And in connection with your choice, what changes -if any- would the stock mechanics need to maintain balance? 

Spoiler

My pick would be snacks!. For it's simplicity, it would fit well in the canon, and would require minimum changes to other features of the game. 

 

Edited November 29, 2016 by DrunkenKerbalnaut

[Wjolcz]

-One "Life Support" resource

-EC usage depends on the kerbal number on-board (to simulate the water and air purification thingies)

-One greenhouse part that would generate "Life Support" resource as long as it has EC.

[DrunkenKerbalnaut]

18 minutes ago, Veeltch said:

-One "Life Support" resource

-EC usage depends on the kerbal number on-board (to simulate the water and air purification thingies)

-One greenhouse part that would generate "Life Support" resource as long as it has EC.

Thanks for your input bud. But I don't want this to be another "these are the features I want" thread. There's a few already. 

Is there a LS mod that you use? Why does it fit well with Kerbal? Why is it better than other options? I realize the answer to these questions might be similar to what you've already said. I'd just like to keep the convo on which mods are already doing it well, and which should we shine a spotlight on, should SQUAD be considering adding LS. 

Edited November 29, 2016 by DrunkenKerbalnaut

[paul23]

I use TAC-LS; but I doubt that is the best thing to use. I however liked it since it decouples all three resources, and with different consumption rates and different ways of replenishing it comes also different time-tables at which it is important.

But mostly I like TAC since it actually gives a drawback: losing a kerbin if you have no more supplies.

 

A life support will always feel forced: otherwise it's not doing its job. If life support is added if you "enable" it, the game will start running around life support management simply because there's no other resource that makes time a resource. (Ok ISRU is there). Life support would fundamentally change how you can "speed up" the game.

[DrunkenKerbalnaut]

1 minute ago, paul23 said:

I use TAC-LS; but I doubt that is the best thing to use. I however liked it since it decouples all three resources, and with different consumption rates and different ways of replenishing it comes also different time-tables at which it is important.

But mostly I like TAC since it actually gives a drawback: losing a kerbin if you have no more supplies.

 

A life support will always feel forced: otherwise it's not doing its job. If life support is added if you "enable" it, the game will start running around life support management simply because there's no other resource that makes time a resource. (Ok ISRU is there). Life support would fundamentally change how you can "speed up" the game.

Fair enough, I suppose I let some of my own expectations taint that comment. I'll remove that part. I can appreciate your expectations. There's always a need for that next level of difficulty. Thanks for chiming in. 

[Wjolcz]

13 minutes ago, DrunkenKerbalnaut said:

Thanks for your input bud. But I don't want this to be another "these are the features I want" thread. There's a few already. 

This is a "these are the features I want" thread though.

Edited November 29, 2016 by Veeltch

[DrunkenKerbalnaut]

Just now, Veeltch said:

This is a "this is a features I want thread though.

Ok. Is there a mod that you would like to discuss that fits your criteria?

[tater]

@RoverDude's USI-LS probably. I haven't played with Kerbalism (the name made me ignore it for a long time, because I didn't realize it was a LS mod), but that looks interesting as well. I used to play with Snacks! quite a bit.

I am a fan of a single resource, because logistically it all boils down to a mass of completely consumed supplies per day. Different rates of use would depend on the ability to recycle some of the supplies.

Just now, Veeltch said:

This is a "this is a features I want thread though.

The title is explicitly asking for which existing mod would be best (or a good model).

[Wjolcz]

2 minutes ago, DrunkenKerbalnaut said:

Ok. Is there a mod that you would like to discuss that fits your criteria?

There isn't a mod that does exactly what I said as far as I know.

I've been told Kerbalism can be configured that way though.

So I guess it's Kerbalism then.

Edited November 29, 2016 by Veeltch

[DrunkenKerbalnaut]

Cool. Any Kerbalism users wanna join the convo?

[tater]

USILS effectively has one resource, the waste ("mulch") and "fertilizer" are only for greenhouses. One optional feature it adds is "habitation" which is more of a psychological rating about how long kerbals can live without going nuts in a given structure. I personally like this, because adding a few tons of "Snacks!" to a mk1 pod is absurd. No one would want to live that way for years. 

[OrbitalBuzzsaw]

NO! NEVER!

[tater]

14 minutes ago, OrbitalBuzzsaw said:

NO! NEVER!

Because toggling it off is so very difficult for you? Rendezvous must be a nightmare for you if selecting a radio button is too difficult.

[OrbitalBuzzsaw]

Yes, but KSP is a GAME, not a SIMULATOR. We have KerbNet already, so we don't need life support! ONE OR THE OTHER!!!!!!

[klgraham1013]

15 minutes ago, OrbitalBuzzsaw said:

Yes, but KSP is a GAME, not a SIMULATOR. We have KerbNet already, so we don't need life support! ONE OR THE OTHER!!!!!!

One:  Game and Simulation are not exclusive terms.  Two:  Why does having communications disqualify having life support?

Three:  I think USI-LS is a good fit for stock.

Edited November 29, 2016 by klgraham1013

[OrbitalBuzzsaw]

6 minutes ago, klgraham1013 said:

One:  Game and Simulation are not exclusive terms.  Two:  Why does having communications disqualify having life support.

Three:  I think USI-LS is a good fit for stock.

@DrunkenKerbalnaut@tater@klgraham1013 - To elaborate

Here's why we should keep away from the cesspool of life support - It's because we already have TOO MUCH realism in the game. if people want to be realistic, go play beeping Orbiter. Those who do not have 4000-odd hours of KSP like I do will be alienated by the complexity of any life support mechanics, because they already have to deal with Commnet etc. I would have no problem with life support, if it was OFF by default.

Edited November 29, 2016 by OrbitalBuzzsaw

[DrunkenKerbalnaut]

32 minutes ago, OrbitalBuzzsaw said:

NO! NEVER!

Haha. Thanks for the addition OB. Do you have any LS mods that you've tried that didn't make you feel this way?

Your opinion is of course just as valid as the next guys, I'd just like to get a good place together where the devs can look at what kind of LS features we value. If the answer for you is none, that's fine. Just doesn't add much to the conversation. 

[OrbitalBuzzsaw]

4 minutes ago, DrunkenKerbalnaut said:

Haha. Thanks for the addition OB. Do you have any LS mods that you've tried that didn't make you feel this way?

Your opinion is of course just as valid as the next guys, I'd just like to get a good place together where the devs can look at what kind of LS features we value. If the answer for you is none, that's fine. Just doesn't add much to the conversation. 

I have an acronym now? Awesome!

[DrunkenKerbalnaut]

5 minutes ago, OrbitalBuzzsaw said:

@DrunkenKerbalnaut - To elaborate...

...I would have no problem with life support, if it was OFF by default.

Oh for sure. Just like the new CommNet features. I wholeheartedly agree with you there, and I can't imagine any reasonable person would feel any differently. 

Learning curve is always something to be mindful of, and there's no reason to make it a wall for new players. 

[theJesuit]

IFI life Support.  'Realistic' mass amounts and an easy way of seeing how long it will last with 1 unit per day.  It follows a KISS principle.

Peace.

[tater]

2 hours ago, OrbitalBuzzsaw said:

@DrunkenKerbalnaut@tater@klgraham1013 - To elaborate

Here's why we should keep away from the cesspool of life support - It's because we already have TOO MUCH realism in the game. if people want to be realistic, go play beeping Orbiter. Those who do not have 4000-odd hours of KSP like I do will be alienated by the complexity of any life support mechanics, because they already have to deal with Commnet etc. I would have no problem with life support, if it was OFF by default.

A complete non-argument. Your argument would also apply to improving atmospheric physics, or indeed ANY improvement made to KSP since it's inception. Who need landing gear, it's a GAME!

[Waxing_Kibbous]

KSP, even stock, gives a player a ton of options over how they want to play the game, and I feel USI-LS fits into this idea nicely. I like the idea of Snacks! but not the penalties, I wish it had a tourist or death mode. Honestly though, I always love LS until I start throwing infrastructure into space, where it then goes from a space exploration game to a management game which doesn't excite me as much.

[Vince_K]

I play with TAC LS. I like the oxygene,food and water concept because you can search for water and make food and oxygene with it

[Tyko]

I've tried several and settled with USI-LS. I like the simplification of having "supplies". I also like the way that recycling and greenhouses are treated. When using USI-LS I get a sense for what it takes to create longer missions without getting bogged down by multiple resources.

[Superfluous J]

I've never kept a life support mod long enough to grow to like it, and I've tried them all (at least most of them. All the big ones). The closest I liked was Snacks back when it was just Snacks and Mulch, and IIRC you could convert Mulch back into Snacks somehow. I think it's important to conserve mass but I also think it's important to limit the number of extra resources to the bare minimum - in this case 2.

I also feel quite strongly that we already have too many resources for the way storage works in the game. Before Life Support becomes stock, I think the game needs to switch to procedural tanks with switchable storage.

Though "Procedural Tanks and Configurable Containers" is an odd reply to "Which Life Support mods are your favorite?"