UomoCapra

Development Update for Consoles!

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I already hate this empty chatter "we work on it" from week to week ... They mock us.

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Kerbuvim said:

I already hate this empty chatter "we work on it" from week to week ... They mock us.

Then don't read it.

There have been periods where PC users said the same thing.  It's just the way it is sometimes.

Edited by razark

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2 hours ago, Kerbuvim said:

I already hate this empty chatter "we work on it" from week to week ... They mock us.

Previously, they didn't comment on the ongoing work on the consoles at all, and people razzed them for it. Now they specifically mention the console work every week....and people razz them for it.

Testing is boring, repetitive work, there's not really much more to be said.

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"How could they release this garbage‽ It's like they didn't test it!"

"How could they do nothing but test it? It's like they mock us!"

:confused:

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13 minutes ago, 0111narwhalz said:

"How could they release this garbage‽ It's like they didn't test it!"

"How could they do nothing but test it? It's like they mock us!"

:confused:

In common parlance, "testing" is shorthand for "creating a product with zero bugs on the first try."

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I just hate the fact it's been almost a year since the game was released and it's still not fully playable. I've also been trying to get a refund so I could purchase it for PC and can't get that either. Would like to be able to play the game without having to spend twice the money since one doesnt work even adequately. 

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5 hours ago, Red Iron Crown said:

Previously, they didn't comment on the ongoing work on the consoles at all, and people razzed them for it. Now they specifically mention the console work every week....and people razz them for it.

The only way they can restore the confidence of frustrated customers is an open and detailed story of what and how to do to remedy the situation. After so many months of silence begin to write stamped phrases "we are working on it" - not enough. We need to talk in detail about the progress, "look, we did this and that, we have to do this, we plan to do it in this deadline".

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Do you realize how insanely boring a software testing report can be?

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, razark said:

Do you realize how insanely boring a software testing report can be?

They wrote: "working on testing and feedback on the new control scheme" ... Why not talk in detail about this new scheme? What is the difference from the old one? Show screenshots ... Tell us which other aspects of the game are being updated ... And most importantly - the time frame, the deadlines! It's boring?

Edited by Kerbuvim
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4 hours ago, Kerbuvim said:

They wrote: "working on testing and feedback on the new control scheme" ... Why not talk in detail about this new scheme? What is the difference from the old one? Show screenshots ... Tell us which other aspects of the game are being updated ... And most importantly - the time frame, the deadlines! It's boring?

Didn't deadlines get us into this mess? 

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21 minutes ago, Red Iron Crown said:

Didn't deadlines get us into this mess? 

I wouldn't go that far. The mess was mainly caused by horribly inadequate coding and even worse QA.

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12 hours ago, razark said:

Do you realize how insanely boring a software testing report can be?

Isnt 'boring' entirely subjective?  Some people might find such a report fascinating and enlightening.

Im glad that we lowly console players get any mention at all in the weekly, but just look at the 30+ lines of info the new making history expansion gets compared to the measly 5 lines the console update gets and you can surely understand where the frustration lies.  Though I understand that this is probably largely to do with the fact that squad is making the expansion and blitworks are responsible for the port.  Maybe blitworks need to give more info?  A detailed breakdown of what they are doing and what they still plan on doing would be nice, but if it takes too much time away from actually working on it, I think I would rather they just kept working.

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I would agree that as soon as they had a fix for the game-crashing and save corruption bugs, they should have released a quick patch. All this other work is good jazz, but loosing your progress in a game is probably worse than having bad controls... 

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Unfortunately, Blitworks isn't doing "a quick patch." They're doing a complete re-port of the game. As long as they're building a control scheme from scratch, they may as well do it right. It's a shame that Squad hasn't acknowledged that "early 2017" hasn't happened, but take solace that they appear to be taking the time to do it right, instead of rushing to meet an arbitrary deadline.

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Posted (edited)

7 hours ago, StrandedonEarth said:

Unfortunately, Blitworks isn't doing "a quick patch." They're doing a complete re-port of the game. As long as they're building a control scheme from scratch, they may as well do it right. It's a shame that Squad hasn't acknowledged that "early 2017" hasn't happened, but take solace that they appear to be taking the time to do it right, instead of rushing to meet an arbitrary deadline.

Yeah. So we can (hopefully) expect a Q3-Q4 release. Half a year has passed since the "Early 2017", so we'll see if we get it by the end of the year...

Also, as I said earlier, Blitworks is playing with fire. The bigger an update (I'm guessing at least a few Gigs), the more chances are that lines of code won't agree. And you may say "It's a new port", but I'm positive that even Blitworks is not immune to not finding bugs in the game.

So I will remain skeptical until this update is released. Only after it stands up to EVERYTHING I can throw at it to break it will I believe that it works.

Edited by LegendaryAce

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11 hours ago, LegendaryAce said:

I'm guessing at least a few Gigs

Now, I'm not sure how inflated ports get, but for perspective: The PC downloads are less than a gigabyte download (750MB or so). Most of that (400MB or so, uncompressed) is assets (that is, GameData). The executable, KSP_Data, and the several settings files (including a log, 'cause I'm sloppy) is 1.7GB (uncompressed). Nearly all of that is in KSP_Data. A few gigabytes would imply either a lot more assets or a doubling or more in KSP_Data, as the executable itself is only about 25MB. Also, as consoles are necessarily the same "bit-ness," you would drop one of the two executables (in each of KSP and Launcher), saving 50MB uncompressed.

I'm not sure what's in KSP_Data and what's in the executable itself, but I can't imagine the port will explode in size that much.

Additionally, I expect that the Blitworks port will take very little from the Flying Tiger port. It's probable that you will be expected to download the entirety of the game over, as this is almost certainly not a patch but a rewrite. I don't know how things are in the console world, but we PC players (or at least I) have gotten used to that since the Patcher stopped working in... 2014 or so?

11 hours ago, LegendaryAce said:

I'm positive that even Blitworks is not immune to not finding bugs in the game.

I'm positive that nobody makes perfect code first time, at least not for a project of any significant size and complexity. The important part is to catch and fix the nastiest bugs (like that abominable save file corruption one) before release, and to fix the rest as time passes. I hope that Blitworks/SQUAD implements a bugtracker for the new console port, since it will have bugs. I'd be very interested to see how long it takes before you find them.

Speaking of which, how easy is it to grab stuff like log files and upload them from a console? As sarbian will tell you, logs are essential to identifying problems. If it's more complex than putting it on a flash drive and uploading it from your computer (which is not a guaranteed possibility with a console), I'm not sure if we'll find many logs on the bugtracker. It's hard enough when you already have access to your filesystem. Perhaps KSP_Console will have a log-uploading utility.

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20 hours ago, StrandedonEarth said:

 It's a shame that Squad hasn't acknowledged that "early 2017" hasn't happened, but take solace that they appear to be taking the time to do it right, instead of rushing to meet an arbitrary deadline.

Thanks for understanding and for bringing positive thinking into the thread. I just want to draw your attention to the fact that the missed deadline has indeed been acknowledge, this is an excerpt from the May 27th Weekly here.

Quote

And don’t worry, release estimations in software development are a tricky and inaccurate science, but progress is being made and we’ll keep you updated.

Granted it doesn't explicitly say "Sorry, we missed the deadline" but it's easy to connect the dots from there. I know it's not the same if I'm the one to say it instead of Squad but truly I'm sorry that this is taking so long. For now let's just try to keep the conversation constructive while we wait, we all want a robust, well-made port and that takes time.

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42 minutes ago, Samssonart said:

I just want to draw your attention to the...    ...excerpt from the May 27th Weekly here.

Thanks, forgot about that subtle oops. I stand corrected.

 

46 minutes ago, Samssonart said:

we all want a robust, well-made port and that takes time

We do and it does.

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9 hours ago, 0111narwhalz said:

I'd be very interested to see how long it takes before you find them.

I'll be more than happy to report them back to you.

Heck, I'll report all the bugs that I find and submit them to Squad, that way we can proactively eliminate them as they appear.

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2 hours ago, LegendaryAce said:

Heck, I'll report all the bugs that I find and submit them to Squad, that way we can proactively eliminate them as they appear.

Important to this effort is proper reporting. I presume you know this already, being an accomplished bug splatterer, but for the benefit of the rest of the eager players:

Bug reports are next to useless if they do not explain the situation. Log files are important, replication steps are very important, a description of exactly what is not behaving as intended is important, context of nearly every kind is important. Developers can filter information; they cannot make new information where once there was none. This doesn't mean that they need your console's serial number, but they do need descriptors of the events before, during, and sometimes after the not-as-intended occurrence.

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I rather it take 6 months more than they first said and have no bugs than on time with tuns of them. I rather have a well-working game then a broken one sooner.

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We are currently progressing on the update at an excellent pace and it is now being tested by the QA team, which is one of the final steps for its release. Next time we have info on timing for the update it will be alongside a final release date. 

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2 minutes ago, UomoCapra said:

We are currently progressing on the update at an excellent pace and it is now being tested by the QA team, which is one of the final steps for its release. Next time we have info on timing for the update it will be alongside a final release date. 

So when you thinking? Maybe next month, or a few weeks?

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1 minute ago, UomoCapra said:

We are currently progressing on the update at an excellent pace and it is now being tested by the QA team, which is one of the final steps for its release. Next time we have info on timing for the update it will be alongside a final release date. 

Thank you, I will be looking forward to that, and I expect no corners were cut on bug fixes. Because you may not be able to tell though this text I am extatic!!!

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Can't say. Release estimations are a tricky subject, since, as an example, an issue could appear during this testing phase and that could delay it. Once we announce the release date it will be because we have full certainty.

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