[1.12.x] - Modular Kolonization System (MKS)

[Kobymaru]

Hey guys, what's the current "Meta" to transfer Machinery around?

I am producing machinery in one Vessel, and I have a separate disconnected storage container close- Now I want to get the machinery from the Fabrication vessel to the storage vessel (you know, for scarcer times ).

For any other resource, I would use the amazing Local Logistics function, but Machinery is explicitly excluded from that.

Do I have to go back to the good old days of KAS-Tubes/Pipes/Winches to transfer my stuff around? Or is there another way?

[voicey99]

1 minute ago, Kobymaru said:

Hey guys, what's the current "Meta" to transfer Machinery around?

I am producing machinery in one Vessel, and I have a separate disconnected storage container close- Now I want to get the machinery from the Fabrication vessel to the storage vessel (you know, for scarcer times ).

For any other resource, I would use the amazing Local Logistics function, but Machinery is explicitly excluded from that.

Do I have to go back to the good old days of KAS-Tubes/Pipes/Winches to transfer my stuff around? Or is there another way?

Nope, you have to manually transfer it across with vanilla fuel transfers. Not sure if its excluded from PL, I haven't tried to transfer it.

[sh1pman]

5 minutes ago, voicey99 said:

Have you tried anchoring it with KIS?

 I tried it back in the days of MKIII modules, OKS and Orbital Logistics 

Generally, with large connected bases, the physics hop would rip all KIS-attached anchors, ground pylons and struts from the ground. So I didnt even try it this time.

 

[RoverDude]

Yeah KIS tends to eventually lead to forces that rip bases apart

[voicey99]

Just now, sh1pman said:

 I tried it back in the days of MKIII modules, OKS and Orbital Logistics 

Generally, with large connected bases, the physics hop would rip all KIS-attached anchors, ground pylons and struts from the ground. So I didnt even try it this time.

Back then, you didn't have the ground tether to deal with the hop. Even if it can't stop the sliding, the tether should be capable of dampening the physics hop enough to avoid breaking the struts.

1 minute ago, RoverDude said:

Yeah KIS tends to eventually lead to forces that rip bases apart

I have been on the receiving end of KIS ghost forces before. A Tourism Plus contract required me to dock with an asteroid on-orbit but I forgot a klaw, so I tried attaching with CC-R2s and... let's say the Kraken decided to play with it a little bit. It pinged and spun around for a very nail-biting fifteen minutes before the contract completed and I could undock it. Still, the ground tether should be capable of dampening such ghost forces through brute force-you saw what my base was doing before I tethered it (I don't call it "Boogie Base" for nothing)!

[sh1pman]

1 minute ago, voicey99 said:

Back then, you didn't have the ground tether to deal with the hop. Even if it can't stop the sliding, the tether should be capable of dampening the physics hop enough to avoid breaking the struts.

I have been on the receiving end of KIS ghost forces before. A Tourism Plus contract required me to dock with an asteroid on-orbit but I forgot a klaw, so I tried attaching with CC-R2s and... let's say the Kraken decided to play with it a little bit. It pinged and spun around for a very nail-biting fifteen minutes before the contract completed and I could undock it. Still, the ground tether should be capable of dampening such ghost forces through brute force-you saw what my base was doing before I tethered it (I don't call it "Boogie Base" for nothing)!

I had a boogie base of my own! It somehow managed to do a 360' backflip once, it was awesome. 

[Kobymaru]

And another question, this time about the Living Module:

I have a Colonization Module installed, and the Living Module is running. I have plenty of ColonySupplies and they get created on the fly.

However, the Hab Timer neither increases when I switch it on, nor does the timer stop, like @RoverDude suggested previously.
Here are two screenshots taken approximately 6 days apart. As you can see, the living module is running, has plenty of Colony supplies. But after 6 days, the Hab Timer has decreased by 6 days.
 

Spoiler

 

The Living Module does not have an effect on nearby vessels, but also not on any of the kerbals inside the vessel.

Is this a bug, or did I misunderstand the functionality of the Living Module again?

Edited April 19, 2017 by Kobymaru

[voicey99]

What did yours do? Mine thrashed around like a snake until the inflatable hab pictured tore off and flew away, usually taking a large chunk of the base and several kolonists with it.

[DrLicor]

Anyone already made some RO configs for it? Otherwise I'll give it a try to config them

[voicey99]

3 minutes ago, DrLicor said:

Anyone already made some RO configs for it? Otherwise I'll give it a try to config them

MKS is incompatible with KSP-RO thanks to the presence of Kerbalism, which screws around with the resource catchup mechanics MKS relies on.

[RoverDude]

I'm surprised RO went with Kerbalism, tbh - given it's potential (and in some cases actual) impact on other mods.

 

[voicey99]

10 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

I'm surprised RO went with Kerbalism, tbh - given it's potential (and in some cases actual) impact on other mods.

I guess its name is Realism Overhaul, and Kerbalism has a level of realism that other LS mods just don't have.

[DrLicor]

25 minutes ago, voicey99 said:

MKS is incompatible with KSP-RO thanks to the presence of Kerbalism, which screws around with the resource catchup mechanics MKS relies on.

Thanks for the info. Yeah it's a bit strange that it got added, but on the other hand. Quite a lot people requested it.. 

[jd284]

42 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

I'm surprised RO went with Kerbalism, tbh - given it's potential (and in some cases actual) impact on other mods.

It's one of the reasons I went with RSS+SMURFF instead of RO, plus a few handpicked mods from RO. IHMO RO is just trying to do too much at once, and KSP not really suitable for too much realism due to bugs.

[Mandella]

28 minutes ago, jd284 said:

It's one of the reasons I went with RSS+SMURFF instead of RO, plus a few handpicked mods from RO. IHMO RO is just trying to do too much at once, and KSP not really suitable for too much realism due to bugs.

I'm glad you brought that up. I'm about to start a new (my first) RSS game and was looking into SMURFF over RO. Does SMURFF play nice with MKS and USI-LS? Anything I need to know?

[Gilph]

2 hours ago, voicey99 said:

Wait, you can ship entire designs as DIY Kits? I have to try out GC ASP.

Just add water, right?

If by water, you mean 27000 MaterialKits (for this vessel), then yeah.

The building on the right side with the Inflatable workshop is a dedicated MK factory.  I figured that splitting my manufacturing between two separate bases (one that is MK only, and everything else in another) was useful for two reasons. One was this case, where building things using GC, and inflating things like habs, would take a lot of MK.  The second is that, in making machinery, MK is consumed 4X more than SP. Using the dedicated workshop makes it at a little over 3x rate than a Assembly bay, iirc., so the balance is a bit better. That box was only 24T, so I think I'll be using it for those far away places.

[jd284]

14 minutes ago, Mandella said:

I'm glad you brought that up. I'm about to start a new (my first) RSS game and was looking into SMURFF over RO. Does SMURFF play nice with MKS and USI-LS? Anything I need to know?

It mostly plays nice, but reduces the masses of the various modules, including some hubs and such with crew capacity, thinking they're crew pods. So that changes the balance a bit, but nothing game breaking. It just makes you wonder why some things are way heavier than others until you realize this is what's going on. Other than reducing the dry mass, it doesn't interact with USI parts at all so there's no potential for other problems. SMURFF is just an MM patch, after all.

[voicey99]

Just now, Gilph said:

If by water, you mean 27000 MaterialKits (for this vessel), then yeah.

The building on the right side with the Inflatable workshop is a dedicated MK factory.  I figured that splitting my manufacturing between two separate bases (one that is MK only, and everything else in another) was useful for two reasons. One was this case, where building things using GC, and inflating things like habs, would take a lot of MK.  The second is that, in making machinery, MK is consumed 4X more than SP. Using the dedicated workshop makes it at a little over 3x rate than a Assembly bay, iirc., so the balance is a bit better. That box was only 24T, so I think I'll be using it for those far away places.

Did you make all those base units with DIY Kits? They look decidedly less ugly than mine which look like centipedes thanks to the wheels needed to marshal each individual module around and slot them into place thanks to shipping them in from Kerbin.

[Gilph]

1 minute ago, voicey99 said:

Did you make all those base units with DIY Kits? They look decidedly less ugly than mine which look like centipedes thanks to the wheels needed to marshal each individual module around and slot them into place thanks to shipping them in from Kerbin.

No, this was my first.  Those other units I flew there and used MJ to land them, so they had to be balanced and manageable. But, now that this was a successful test, I may rethink my designs a bit.

[voicey99]

Just now, Gilph said:

No, this was my first.  Those other units I flew there and used MJ to land them, so they had to be balanced and manageable. But, now that this was a successful test, I may rethink my designs a bit.

You flew them there as one piece? Bet you had an adventure getting the bigger ones out of the Kerbin atmosphere. I guess I could just disassemble the wheels on mine, but they do help reduce sliding and dampen the residual physicshop, despite looking so ugly.

[Gilph]

12 minutes ago, voicey99 said:

You flew them there as one piece? Bet you had an adventure getting the bigger ones out of the Kerbin atmosphere. I guess I could just disassemble the wheels on mine, but they do help reduce sliding and dampen the residual physicshop, despite looking so ugly.

Not really...you'd be surprised how much heat they can tolerate.  What made that really work was sticking a landing engine in the middle with landing legs around the core, and stick fuel tanks on the top.  After I land it, have an engineer go and turn all that landing-specific stuff into Materialkits, including the landing engine and legs, and it sits nicely on the ground. If you balance the landing TWR to about 1.5-1.8, MJ can land it to within 1-2 meters.

[voicey99]

9 minutes ago, Gilph said:

Not really...you'd be surprised how much heat they can tolerate.  What made that really work was sticking a landing engine in the middle with landing legs around the core, and stick fuel tanks on the top.  After I land it, have an engineer go and turn all that landing-specific stuff into Materialkits, including the landing engine and legs, and it sits nicely on the ground. If you balance the landing TWR to about 1.5-1.8, MJ can land it to within 1-2 meters.

I've had bad experiences with MJ Landing Guidance, usually along the lines of MJ thinking my landing spot is in some wacky spot on the other side of the planet and burning all over the place to chase a glitchy landing prediction and when it does work, it doesn't account for terrain variations on the trajectory so I constantly worry about smashing into a mountain along the lines of Mt Whoopstooshort just west of the KSC. As for in the atmo, it would be like flying a house. It would have an extremely unaerodynamic end, be very top-heavy and probably pinwheel if you tilt it too fast. Maybe it would be easier for you using LFO boosters with their gimbal and toggleable thrust, as it is certainly very difficult with solid boosters.

I think I'll stick to shipping them in two at a time inline with the rest of the rocket.

Edited April 19, 2017 by voicey99

[Gilph]

57 minutes ago, voicey99 said:

I've had bad experiences with MJ Landing Guidance, usually along the lines of MJ thinking my landing spot is in some wacky spot on the other side of the planet and burning all over the place to chase a glitchy landing prediction and when it does work, it doesn't account for terrain variations on the trajectory so I constantly worry about smashing into a mountain along the lines of Mt Whoopstooshort just west of the KSC. As for in the atmo, it would be like flying a house. It would have an extremely unaerodynamic end, be very top-heavy and probably pinwheel if you tilt it too fast. Maybe it would be easier for you using LFO boosters with their gimbal and toggleable thrust, as it is certainly very difficult with solid boosters.

I think I'll stick to shipping them in two at a time inline with the rest of the rocket.

I think that, with all of my landed vessels, I had one issue with the terrain and MJ.  If my landing spot is surrounded by high ground, I just start my descent higher.  As to the ascent, I just lower the TWR until I can do the gravity turn nicely (at the expense of deltav), and never needed wings for stability.  I only use LFO boosters (see Kestrel lifter in Kerbalx), and just started using the SpaceY stuff to get the good engines.  I used the bigger Karbonite SRBs once to see how well they worked, and they got me high enough to use a vacuum based engine to get into orbit. It is a bit like flying a house, but if you balance the COM in the VAB, it's usually pretty easy. The secret is hitting that 10k altitude freakin brick wall at the right angle with as little AoA as possible.

[voicey99]

Just now, Gilph said:

I think that, with all of my landed vessels, I had one issue with the terrain and MJ.  If my landing spot is surrounded by high ground, I just start my descent higher.  As to the ascent, I just lower the TWR until I can do the gravity turn nicely (at the expense of deltav), and never needed wings for stability.  I only use LFO boosters (see Kestrel lifter in Kerbalx), and just started using the SpaceY stuff to get the good engines.  I used the bigger Karbonite SRBs once to see how well they worked, and they got me high enough to use a vacuum based engine to get into orbit. It is a bit like flying a house, but if you balance the COM in the VAB, it's usually pretty easy. The secret is hitting that 10k altitude freakin brick wall at the right angle with as little AoA as possible.

Yeah. I only use solidfuel boosters at launch because, in Career, they are much more cost-effective. With the SF boosters, they rely on high initial acceleration to get into a suborbital trajectory (I normally aim for 100K) and the main booster I use, the KD25, flares out after just over a minute and I aim for a TWR of >2 at launch, this will climb to anything up to 10 as the boosters burn through their fuel-this seems like a lot, but it's perfectly controllable with a few tailfins. As such, I have to take a very shallow gravity turn-by the time I hit 10K, I'm normally tilting ~20 degs and ~50 degs by the time the boosters burn out.

The amount of time spent in the lower atmosphere as a result means "flying house" designs are a big nono unless I can fit them inside the 5m fairings from SXT.

[Gilph]

9 hours ago, Kobymaru said:

Hey guys, what's the current "Meta" to transfer Machinery around?

I am producing machinery in one Vessel, and I have a separate disconnected storage container close- Now I want to get the machinery from the Fabrication vessel to the storage vessel (you know, for scarcer times ).

For any other resource, I would use the amazing Local Logistics function, but Machinery is explicitly excluded from that.

Do I have to go back to the good old days of KAS-Tubes/Pipes/Winches to transfer my stuff around? Or is there another way?

To do exactly what you are asking, then @voicey99is right. But, you can use PL in a somewhat indirect way as the storage.

If you have a vessel making Machinery, and you have Logistics module, then the excess Machinery will be pushed to PL.  If you have vessels nearby that need their Machinery replenished, then each of them need a Machinery tank with PL enabled, Logistics modules, and a pilot in the neighborhood. Lock the Machinery storage that is local to your resource converters.  This will force the Machinery consumption to come from the Machinery tank that has PL enabled. Once that tank goes low, it will pull Machinery from PL.