RoverDude

[1.2.2] - Modular Kolonization System (MKS)

2670 posts in this topic

9 hours ago, RoverDude said:

Nope-  they are intentionally not transferable.  Nuclear refueling will be a manual process (though fortunately, a rare one).

Yikes! No wonder my Minmus City construction ground to a crawl. Is there any way to temporarily disable this? I've got 9000 units of EnrichedUranium that I need to pull out of PL....

BTW - It's not so infrequent. The Tundra PDU reactor chews through fuel like crazy.  The biggest problem I've had with that is the DepletedFuel. It pretty much requires an attached Breeder module or it will shut down due to no dump space after about a month. You also cannot be running a centrifuge, which now without PL fills up EU storage fast and which in turn prevents the breeder from functioning.

EDIT:

I'm going to drop in my own personal plea for EL integration not to be deprecated or removed. The ability to produce items whole without shipping anything from Kerbin is essential to my kolonization/diaspora gameplay arc. I get the idea that there are specialty parts that are hard to produce, but I feel that should be a resource that can be produced if you build up sufficient industrial capacity. The existing MKS+EL integration simulates that chain nicely. However, I will admit GC's deploy step is way more stable than EL's survey stakes and the MKS resource chain is not nearly kerbal-labor intensive enough (or really at all).

Actually, I would love to see either an integration with or analogous functionality to the Civilian Population mod, specifically the ability to "recruit" a Kerbal off-world. That would be the dream: Kolonize Laythe with a ship and crew build and born on Duna. (OK, maybe more like crew born on Duna flies a Duna-built shuttle to Ike, boards a Kolony ship built in Ike orbit, flys to Pol, sets up an industrial complex on Pol, builds and uses a Laythe lander, then sets up shop on Laythe and receives shipments from Pol until the colony is self-sufficient)

Edited by Omnipius
Avoiding a double-post.

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1 hour ago, Omnipius said:

I'm going to drop in my own personal plea for EL integration not to be deprecated or removed. The ability to produce items whole without shipping anything from Kerbin is essential to my kolonization/diaspora gameplay arc. I get the idea that there are specialty parts that are hard to produce, but I feel that should be a resource that can be produced if you build up sufficient industrial capacity. The existing MKS+EL integration simulates that chain nicely. However, I will admit GC's deploy step is way more stable than EL's survey stakes and the MKS resource chain is not nearly kerbal-labor intensive enough (or really at all).

Actually, I would love to see either an integration with or analogous functionality to the Civilian Population mod, specifically the ability to "recruit" a Kerbal off-world. That would be the dream: Kolonize Laythe with a ship and crew build and born on Duna. (OK, maybe more like crew born on Duna flies a Duna-built shuttle to Ike, boards a Kolony ship built in Ike orbit, flys to Pol, sets up an industrial complex on Pol, builds and uses a Laythe lander, then sets up shop on Laythe and receives shipments from Pol until the colony is self-sufficient)

Roverdude has mentioned that the intention is for DIY kits to be built in-situ with MKS, presumably at more advanced levels of base building.

Producing kerbals in-situ (families!) has also been mentioned as part of the roadmap - presumably as the end-goal of an MKS Kolony.

In general, I've always seen MKS as a process of gradually gaining independence from Kerbin. You're quite right that both of the above are necessary for that.

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Something that's always puzzled me in MKS is the "resource converter" on the Karibou cab-what exactly does it do? Turning it on doesn't seem to affect any stats, it doesn't use any power or resources and it doesn't even have ModuleResourceConverter in the cfg. Is it just an artefact of some other feature of the part or something, because it appears to have no function at all.

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3 hours ago, Omnipius said:

Yikes! No wonder my Minmus City construction ground to a crawl. Is there any way to temporarily disable this? I've got 9000 units of EnrichedUranium that I need to pull out of PL....

BTW - It's not so infrequent. The Tundra PDU reactor chews through fuel like crazy.  The biggest problem I've had with that is the DepletedFuel. It pretty much requires an attached Breeder module or it will shut down due to no dump space after about a month. You also cannot be running a centrifuge, which now without PL fills up EU storage fast and which in turn prevents the breeder from functioning.

EDIT:

I'm going to drop in my own personal plea for EL integration not to be deprecated or removed. The ability to produce items whole without shipping anything from Kerbin is essential to my kolonization/diaspora gameplay arc. I get the idea that there are specialty parts that are hard to produce, but I feel that should be a resource that can be produced if you build up sufficient industrial capacity. The existing MKS+EL integration simulates that chain nicely. However, I will admit GC's deploy step is way more stable than EL's survey stakes and the MKS resource chain is not nearly kerbal-labor intensive enough (or really at all).

Actually, I would love to see either an integration with or analogous functionality to the Civilian Population mod, specifically the ability to "recruit" a Kerbal off-world. That would be the dream: Kolonize Laythe with a ship and crew build and born on Duna. (OK, maybe more like crew born on Duna flies a Duna-built shuttle to Ike, boards a Kolony ship built in Ike orbit, flys to Pol, sets up an industrial complex on Pol, builds and uses a Laythe lander, then sets up shop on Laythe and receives shipments from Pol until the colony is self-sufficient)

Define chewing through like crazy please (all of the reactors should be lasting several years - also please confirm you are or are not using NFE as that changes reactor behavior).

As noted below, working with @allista to produce DIYKits off-Kerbin, though the infrastructure will be significant in MKS-land (as it should be).  EL is not explicitly blacklisted, but given that MKS will have its own built-in construction tools with the bundling of GC, it is not something I am going to focus on.  A compatibility patch (basically the current config) will remain available as a separate download, and the models will be deprecated given that EL has its own models, and those two were due for a refresh anyway - and I would rather invest the time/effort in models for GC instead.  EL has fully functional parts that come with it, and EL defaults like survey stations for the Pioneer Modules and workspace, etc. will remain.

Kerbal creation is on its way once the dust settles on the GC integration, since all of the pieces are finally dropping in place, and MKS is (almost) 'Done' from my standpoint.  There are just a few extra parts that I would like to get in first.

2 hours ago, Domfluff said:

Roverdude has mentioned that the intention is for DIY kits to be built in-situ with MKS, presumably at more advanced levels of base building.

Producing kerbals in-situ (families!) has also been mentioned as part of the roadmap - presumably as the end-goal of an MKS Kolony.

In general, I've always seen MKS as a process of gradually gaining independence from Kerbin. You're quite right that both of the above are necessary for that.

Correct.  As the OP states, off-world colonization is extraordinarily hard.  100% self-sufficiency to the point that you would have the infrastructure to build rockets of unlimited size and with the same tech that you could build on Kerbin is exponentially more difficult.  Being able to do this all with a handful of survey stakes has always been a bit immersion breaking IMO.  There should be a path... but that path should also be non-trivial.

43 minutes ago, voicey99 said:

Something that's always puzzled me in MKS is the "resource converter" on the Karibou cab-what exactly does it do? Turning it on doesn't seem to affect any stats, it doesn't use any power or resources and it doesn't even have ModuleResourceConverter in the cfg. Is it just an artefact of some other feature of the part or something, because it appears to have no function at all.

That one is the Habitation module for the Karibou, it just needs its options set correctly.

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8 hours ago, Omnipius said:

BTW - It's not so infrequent. The Tundra PDU reactor chews through fuel like crazy.  The biggest problem I've had with that is the DepletedFuel. It pretty much requires an attached Breeder module or it will shut down due to no dump space after about a month. You also cannot be running a centrifuge, which now without PL fills up EU storage fast and which in turn prevents the breeder from functioning

wow...I just started using the Tundra PDU on a new Minmus base.  I don't see anything like that yet.  I do have a nuke plant attached but it doesn't have to do much yet.

But, refueling after "several years" may not be exactly true.  In less than a year, I used up half the fuel of a Duna PDU.  My colony uses around 2300 EC/sec, and I've seen much larger. I can believe that PDUs need fuel within a year or two for medium to larger installations.

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According to my calculations, when running at full steam, the 0.625m reactor should require refuelling every 772 days (1.8yrs), the 1.25m every 1,306 days (3.1yrs), the 2.5m every 1,188 days (2.8yrs), the 3.75m every 1,240 days (2.9yrs), the Duna PDU every 309 days (0.72 yrs) and the Tundra PDU every 193 days (0.45 yrs).

 

EDIT: And, speaking of PDUs, the costs of the Tundra and Duna PDUs seem especially low compared to their non-PDU reactor counterparts of comparable output. The Duna PDU costs just 2K on ts own and the Tundra costs just an eighth of the comparable 2.5m reactor.

Edited by voicey99
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Ok what that tells me is a couple of the PDUs (Duna and Tundra) need some balancing for the amount of EU/DF they can hold.

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30 minutes ago, voicey99 said:

According to my calculations, when running at full steam, the 0.625m reactor should require refuelling every 772 days (1.8yrs), the 1.25m every 1,306 days (3.1yrs), the 2.5m every 1,188 days (2.8yrs), the 3.75m every 1,240 days (2.9yrs), the Duna PDU every 309 days (0.72 yrs) and the Tundra PDU every 193 days (0.45 yrs).

Regarding this, note that the PDUs at least (not sure about the nukes) can run at >100% effiency and so a Tundra could run dry in 50 - 100 days depending on load. At least my Duna PDU is running at 165% base load and peaking to 245% after an EC transfer. This is with 4 star engineers, so with 5 star it'd probably have even more load. Though the heat management is already slightly problematic...

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31 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

Ok what that tells me is a couple of the PDUs (Duna and Tundra) need some balancing for the amount of EU/DF they can hold.

I think so...I was somewhat surprised to see the Tundra only holding 20 EU.  I put the canisters with 300 EU and DF capacity on it and make more from the nuke plant, but 20 is low compared to their non PDU counterparts.

Also, if I may ask for a clarification, the wiki says that when you perform maintenance, machinery and EU are replenished from sources "nearby".  What exactly does that mean? Is it the warehouse enabled containers within scavenging range? And, if the EU container is attached to a logistics module, can it pull EU from PL?

Thanks

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Maintenance range is, I believe, 500m

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8 minutes ago, jd284 said:

Regarding this, note that the PDUs at least (not sure about the nukes) can run at >100% effiency and so a Tundra could run dry in 50 - 100 days depending on load. At least my Duna PDU is running at 165% base load and peaking to 245% after an EC transfer. This is with 4 star engineers, so with 5 star it'd probably have even more load. Though the heat management is already slightly problematic...

Hm, I can't make either my reactors or PDU go over 100% even with a high-level engineer on board. The last time it did go over 100% was thanks to one of the bees in 0.50.12 that sent all the production multipliers on Kerbol escape velocity.

And @Gilph maintenance/scavenging range is 150m by default.

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3 minutes ago, Gilph said:

I think so...I was somewhat surprised to see the Tundra only holding 20 EU.  I put the canisters with 300 EU and DF capacity on it and make more from the nuke plant, but 20 is low compared to their non PDU counterparts.

Also, if I may ask for a clarification, the wiki says that when you perform maintenance, machinery and EU are replenished from sources "nearby".  What exactly does that mean? Is it the warehouse enabled containers within scavenging range? And, if the EU container is attached to a logistics module, can it pull EU from PL?

Thanks

And to add to RoverDude's response: No, you can't pull EU out of PL when you perform maintenance.  Or any other time for that matter: EU is specifically excluded from PL.  :wink: (As has been mentioned recently...)

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5 hours ago, RoverDude said:

Define chewing through like crazy please (all of the reactors should be lasting several years - also please confirm you are or are not using NFE as that changes reactor behavior).

I am using NFE, though something still seems out of whack with the Tundra PDU. In the VAB, it says that it uses fuel at a rate of 0.96/day (which isn't a number I can get to from either the MKS or NFE config file data). So, with a fuel capacity of 20, that only lasts about 25 days. :( The odd thing is that the NFE integration says the capacity should be 60...so something the broken there. I'll do some digging and report up that chain.

39 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

Ok what that tells me is a couple of the PDUs (Duna and Tundra) need some balancing for the amount of EU/DF they can hold.

I would concur with this. A reactor capable of 1200 EC/s should have a fuel capacity in in the hundreds, somewhere just above the 2.5m standalone reactor. Same for waste heat.

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@RoverDude, @DStaal, @jd284, @voicey99, Thanks very much for the answers.

 

5 minutes ago, DStaal said:

And to add to RoverDude's response: No, you can't pull EU out of PL when you perform maintenance.  Or any other time for that matter: EU is specifically excluded from PL.  :wink: (As has been mentioned recently...)

I understand, but I had a more specific scenario and got lazy with the question.  If there is a EU warehouse container attached to a Logistics module with a small amount of EU, and you perform maintenance on a part in range, I would guess that it will be pulled from that container. But, you are saying that PL will not then transfer EU from PL to this container if it drops below the threshold?  If there is no scenario that will cause a transfer from PL to anywhere, then any EU going into PL will be wasted, just like if it were discarded overflow.

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1 minute ago, Gilph said:

I understand, but I had a more specific scenario and got lazy with the question.  If there is a EU warehouse container attached to a Logistics module with a small amount of EU, and you perform maintenance on a part in range, I would guess that it will be pulled from that container. But, you are saying that PL will not then transfer EU from PL to this container if it drops below the threshold?  If there is no scenario that will cause a transfer from PL to anywhere, then any EU going into PL will be wasted, just like if it were discarded overflow.

Well, it can't go into PL either.  So you won't waste any. :wink:

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Uh, does that mean the 21K EU floating around in my Minmus Planetary Storage from before it was explicitly blacklisted is now irretrievable and I will now have to transfer it by hand from base to base?

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3 minutes ago, voicey99 said:

Uh, does that mean the 21K EU floating around in my Minmus Planetary Storage from before it was explicitly blacklisted is now irretrievable and I will now have to transfer it by hand from base to base?

?!?!??!  I was under the impression that EU has *always* been explicitly blacklisted.

I think RoverDude will have to comment here.

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Is it a WIP or is it another Umbra mod? I can't seem to find the command pod in the OP that looks like the Hermes from the Martian. I really want to behold that part please. 

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1 minute ago, sp1989 said:

Is it a WIP or is it another Umbra mod? I can't seem to find the command pod in the OP that looks like the Hermes from the Martian. I really want to behold that part please. 

FTT.

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1 hour ago, Gilph said:

@RoverDude, @DStaal, @jd284, @voicey99, Thanks very much for the answers.

 

I understand, but I had a more specific scenario and got lazy with the question.  If there is a EU warehouse container attached to a Logistics module with a small amount of EU, and you perform maintenance on a part in range, I would guess that it will be pulled from that container. But, you are saying that PL will not then transfer EU from PL to this container if it drops below the threshold?  If there is no scenario that will cause a transfer from PL to anywhere, then any EU going into PL will be wasted, just like if it were discarded overflow.

EU should no longer be going to PS (if it is, let me know, and I will test/fix it in the upcoming patch).  The intent is that the tradeoff for infinite free EC is to have to run about with maintenance crews.  Though the timing for this could be tweaked if need be.

3 minutes ago, sp1989 said:

Is it a WIP or is it another Umbra mod? I can't seem to find the command pod in the OP that looks like the Hermes from the Martian. I really want to behold that part please. 

FTT, that's the Orca command pod

1 hour ago, voicey99 said:

Uh, does that mean the 21K EU floating around in my Minmus Planetary Storage from before it was explicitly blacklisted is now irretrievable and I will now have to transfer it by hand from base to base?

That was always the design intent.  But I am open to convincing why it should be otherwise :)

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1 minute ago, RoverDude said:

EU should no longer be going to PS (if it is, let me know, and I will test/fix it in the upcoming patch).  The intent is that the tradeoff for infinite free EC is to have to run about with maintenance crews.  Though the timing for this could be tweaked if need be.

FTT, that's the Orca command pod

Thank you I love it and I haven't even played with it yet.

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Been a while since i've played this game and love what you have done with all your mods Rover. One question though.

 

Did we lose the old Orbital Logistics functionality that was in MKS at some point? I didn't see it mentioned in any of the wiki, manuals, or parts. I always hated piloting supply missions into orbit, I still lose 1 in 3 to docking "accidents") but wanted to verify if the functionality is gone or just being rewritten before I start looking for an alternative. :P

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4 minutes ago, ExavierMacbeth said:

Been a while since i've played this game and love what you have done with all your mods Rover. One question though.

 

Did we lose the old Orbital Logistics functionality that was in MKS at some point? I didn't see it mentioned in any of the wiki, manuals, or parts. I always hated piloting supply missions into orbit, I still lose 1 in 3 to docking "accidents") but wanted to verify if the functionality is gone or just being rewritten before I start looking for an alternative. :P

Correct, there is no Orbital Logistics atm.

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9 minutes ago, ExavierMacbeth said:

Been a while since i've played this game and love what you have done with all your mods Rover. One question though.

 

Did we lose the old Orbital Logistics functionality that was in MKS at some point? I didn't see it mentioned in any of the wiki, manuals, or parts. I always hated piloting supply missions into orbit, I still lose 1 in 3 to docking "accidents") but wanted to verify if the functionality is gone or just being rewritten before I start looking for an alternative. :P

Technically, I think it's being rewritten.  Which means it's on RoverDude's long list of things to do.  :wink: 

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Are there any docs on the new professions? Anything at all?

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