[1.12.x] - Modular Kolonization System (MKS)

[RoverDude]

6 hours ago, voicey99 said:

Are the other USI repos (USI_Constellation, Konstruction, Karbonite etc.) scheduled to be moved over to /umbraspaceindustries as some point or will they remain under /bobpalmer?

All will be moved eventually, other than community bits like CRP and CCK

[voicey99]

Not sure if this is a prerelease thing, but the R-TCS now seems to work in space. Could somebody else check this?

[ruiluth]

I need some help. After literally days of research, I thought I had finally gotten to the point where I could work on setting up a kolony. This is what I ended up with:

I dropped a shipping container with base parts, then landed the crew shuttle next to it and assembled the parts I had sent: the ball, an airlock, a lab, and an emergency shelter. I had so many problems during this process:

• The ball kept tipping over onto the shelter, which was the heaviest module, and when I expanded it it flipped up into the air. What you see is the result of a particularly lucky flip that landed right side up.
• The modules are too large to put in the kerbal's inventory, and therefore must be placed on the ground and leapfrogged to their destination. The airlock kept sinking into the ground and exploding when I tried to do this. These modules are extremely difficult to transport, especially the ones that require multiple kerbals to move due to weight.
• I brought an extra ball thinking it might add stability, but the crew tubes are so large that I couldn't fit a single one into the container. How are you supposed to get those there, or are you supposed to build them on site? Or are you just supposed to use the flex-o-tube instead? KAS struts like it seem to always cause hopping and clipping into terrain for me.
• When I transferred crew inside the base, their inventories apparently disappeared. Not sure if this is a bug with KIS but it usually works with other parts. The upshot of this is that the screwdriver I was using to put everything together is gone.

I really like this mod and I've done everything I can to learn as much as possible about it, but this is just too tedious and glitchy. I can't kolonize the solar system like this. Am I doing something wrong, or do most people just put up with this? Should I be landing Duna modules in self-contained packages that aren't connected by anything, instead, and just using logistics to make it work together? This page does not seem to suggest that. I've found plenty of explanation for how the various modules interact, how to set up supply chains, that kind of thing, but I can't find any information about how I'm supposed to actually physically set up the modules. Everything I could find on the github wiki suggested that this was the correct way to do it, but at this point I'm really hoping it's not, because I'm about ready to just uninstall this mod and kolonize using KPBS or something instead. Thank you to anyone who can help.

[voicey99]

3 hours ago, ruiluth said:

I need some help. After literally days of research, I thought I had finally gotten to the point where I could work on setting up a kolony. This is what I ended up with:

<schnip>

I dropped a shipping container with base parts, then landed the crew shuttle next to it and assembled the parts I had sent: the ball, an airlock, a lab, and an emergency shelter. I had so many problems during this process:

• The ball kept tipping over onto the shelter, which was the heaviest module, and when I expanded it it flipped up into the air. What you see is the result of a particularly lucky flip that landed right side up.
• The modules are too large to put in the kerbal's inventory, and therefore must be placed on the ground and leapfrogged to their destination. The airlock kept sinking into the ground and exploding when I tried to do this. These modules are extremely difficult to transport, especially the ones that require multiple kerbals to move due to weight.
• I brought an extra ball thinking it might add stability, but the crew tubes are so large that I couldn't fit a single one into the container. How are you supposed to get those there, or are you supposed to build them on site? Or are you just supposed to use the flex-o-tube instead? KAS struts like it seem to always cause hopping and clipping into terrain for me.
• When I transferred crew inside the base, their inventories apparently disappeared. Not sure if this is a bug with KIS but it usually works with other parts. The upshot of this is that the screwdriver I was using to put everything together is gone.

I really like this mod and I've done everything I can to learn as much as possible about it, but this is just too tedious and glitchy. I can't kolonize the solar system like this. Am I doing something wrong, or do most people just put up with this? Should I be landing Duna modules in self-contained packages that aren't connected by anything, instead, and just using logistics to make it work together? This page does not seem to suggest that. I've found plenty of explanation for how the various modules interact, how to set up supply chains, that kind of thing, but I can't find any information about how I'm supposed to actually physically set up the modules. Everything I could find on the github wiki suggested that this was the correct way to do it, but at this point I'm really hoping it's not, because I'm about ready to just uninstall this mod and kolonize using KPBS or something instead. Thank you to anyone who can help.

Maybe try landing a slightly larger module? MKS is designed for large, sprawling bases and one tiny ballhub, airlock, commlab and most basic of habitation modules just won't cut it. Look at some of the other pictures people have posted in this thread for an idea on how it's supposed to be set up. MKS has does have some dodgy physics so extremely small or overly large bases (avoiding this is why you linking local modules via LL was introduced) are kraken bait. Take this example starting module:

It has starting habitation, onboard gypsum->fertiliser->supplies production, logistics capability, an LS recycler, a power source, a lab, an airlock, spare machinery and a connection point all in one (assuming you are using USI-LS, which a good portion of the mod revolves around).

As for heavier modules, you can maneuvre them around and dock them with construction ports (and later compress the ports to join them) or just keep each module self-contained. The KIS inventory loss bug is a known and unfixable bug as the inflatable modules have 0 crew capacity when undeployed, so KIS grants each one 0L of storage and deletes any items that go in them.

[maja]

6 hours ago, ruiluth said:

<snip>

I dropped a shipping container with base parts, then landed the crew shuttle next to it and assembled the parts I had sent: the ball, an airlock, a lab, and an emergency shelter. I had so many problems during this process:

• The ball kept tipping over onto the shelter, which was the heaviest module, and when I expanded it it flipped up into the air. What you see is the result of a particularly lucky flip that landed right side up.
• The modules are too large to put in the kerbal's inventory, and therefore must be placed on the ground and leapfrogged to their destination. The airlock kept sinking into the ground and exploding when I tried to do this. These modules are extremely difficult to transport, especially the ones that require multiple kerbals to move due to weight.
• I brought an extra ball thinking it might add stability, but the crew tubes are so large that I couldn't fit a single one into the container. How are you supposed to get those there, or are you supposed to build them on site? Or are you just supposed to use the flex-o-tube instead? KAS struts like it seem to always cause hopping and clipping into terrain for me.
• When I transferred crew inside the base, their inventories apparently disappeared. Not sure if this is a bug with KIS but it usually works with other parts. The upshot of this is that the screwdriver I was using to put everything together is gone.

Good helpers are PAL parts from USI Konstruction. For example, PAL Magnet adds 10 tons to nearby Kerbal when manipulating parts. Build some rover with two PAL magnets and you can lift 21 tons with one Kerbal.

I ship tubes and other parts attached to the core of a base in the most aerodynamic way I can achieve, than remove them on site with KAS and attach them again in the propper place. It needs some planning beforehand, but then it's easy. Keep in mind, that tubes has more attachment nodes. Press R to cycle them and save and reload after attaching a tube. The free space between a part and a tube will be filled with propper ending cap when game is reloaded.

Use B and N keys when placing part on the ground with KAS. You can change hight over the terrain and clear parts from clipping into the ground.

Inflatable parts doesn't have seats before inflating, so KIS can't add their module for storing EVA items to them. Use external containers before entering or do not enter inflatable parts.

 

 

Edited May 19, 2017 by maja

[RoverDude]

5 hours ago, voicey99 said:

Maybe try landing a slightly larger module? MKS is designed for large, sprawling bases and one tiny ballhub, airlock, commlab and most basic of habitation modules just won't cut it.

No offense, but this is incorrect.

Look at the OP for a couple of example pics.  Also - that Tundra module will be a lot easier to deal with if it is horizontal not vertical.

Use anchor hubs (and anchor them!  They act like KAS pylons) if you want to do KIS assembly.

Use Salamanders and their corresponding landing module to drop small pods of bases.

Use two ball hubs and a truss to make horizontal six-module 'dog-bone' style bases.

Use Karibous if you want something mobile.

Use PAL equipment to move bits around.

Focus on 'pods' of disconnected bases to make a larger outpost.  It saves you from the Kraken.

I could go on of course, and I expect there are going to be a lot of base pics posted today

Also @ruiluth - KPBS != MKS.  It's like comparing apples and tractors.  MKS is first and foremost a gameplay mod.  KPBS is primarily a parts mod (though the integration pack @DStaal works on changes that.

[sh1pman]

@RoverDude I've just noticed that disconnected efficiency parts don't work during the catch-up phase. Is this a known thing? I'll make a github issue if it isn't.

[RoverDude]

2 minutes ago, sh1pman said:

@RoverDude I've just noticed that disconnected efficiency parts don't work during the catch-up phase. Is this a known thing? I'll make a github issue if it isn't.

Sounds like a bug - though if possible I'd like you to test it on a pre-release (give me a few to bundle it and I'll ping here once done).

 

[sh1pman]

Ok.

[RoverDude]

26 minutes ago, sh1pman said:

Ok.

https://github.com/BobPalmer/USI_Constellation/releases/tag/2017.05.19.01

If you still have the same issue let me know and I'll take a look

[FrontLineFodder]

3 hours ago, maja said:

Good helpers are PAL parts from USI Konstruction. For example, PAL Magnet adds 10 tons to nearby Kerbal when manipulating parts. Build some rover with two PAL magnets and you can lift 21 tons with one Kerbal.

Inflatable parts doesn't have seats before inflating, so KIS can't add their module for storing EVA items to them. Use external containers before entering or do not enter inflatable parts.

PAL magnets increase KIS weight limits, I did not know this, that makes things a lot better, I might have have to send one or two to the mun now.

 

Quote

Inflatable parts doesn't have seats before inflating, so KIS can't add their module for storing EVA items to them. Use external containers before entering or do not enter inflatable parts.

I made a MM patch to add the seats into the modules, I am just careful not to put Kerbels into these seats until they are deployed in their destination. I was sick of losing my spanners

[DStaal]

10 hours ago, ruiluth said:

I need some help. After literally days of research, I thought I had finally gotten to the point where I could work on setting up a kolony. This is what I ended up with:

I dropped a shipping container with base parts, then landed the crew shuttle next to it and assembled the parts I had sent: the ball, an airlock, a lab, and an emergency shelter. I had so many problems during this process:

• The ball kept tipping over onto the shelter, which was the heaviest module, and when I expanded it it flipped up into the air. What you see is the result of a particularly lucky flip that landed right side up.
• The modules are too large to put in the kerbal's inventory, and therefore must be placed on the ground and leapfrogged to their destination. The airlock kept sinking into the ground and exploding when I tried to do this. These modules are extremely difficult to transport, especially the ones that require multiple kerbals to move due to weight.
• I brought an extra ball thinking it might add stability, but the crew tubes are so large that I couldn't fit a single one into the container. How are you supposed to get those there, or are you supposed to build them on site? Or are you just supposed to use the flex-o-tube instead? KAS struts like it seem to always cause hopping and clipping into terrain for me.
• When I transferred crew inside the base, their inventories apparently disappeared. Not sure if this is a bug with KIS but it usually works with other parts. The upshot of this is that the screwdriver I was using to put everything together is gone.

I really like this mod and I've done everything I can to learn as much as possible about it, but this is just too tedious and glitchy. I can't kolonize the solar system like this. Am I doing something wrong, or do most people just put up with this? Should I be landing Duna modules in self-contained packages that aren't connected by anything, instead, and just using logistics to make it work together? This page does not seem to suggest that. I've found plenty of explanation for how the various modules interact, how to set up supply chains, that kind of thing, but I can't find any information about how I'm supposed to actually physically set up the modules. Everything I could find on the github wiki suggested that this was the correct way to do it, but at this point I'm really hoping it's not, because I'm about ready to just uninstall this mod and kolonize using KPBS or something instead. Thank you to anyone who can help.

1.  Two things: Did you attach it to the ground, and are you using the latest version of MKS?  That was a problem I had a few versions ago, but recent versions have been fine as long as I actually attached the hub to the ground.  (Not just set it on the ground.)

2. I carry the Ranger modules in Kerbal's inventory regularly.  You do have to make sure the inventory is nearly empty (basically - equip your screwdriver and don't carry anything else), but they should fit.  Weight-wise, they should be within a single Kerbal's weight limit - if they are empty.  (Some of them default to having resources in them, which will make them to heavy to carry.)  If you do find you have to location-hop them, I find 'dropping' them a bit above the surface tends to make things work better.

3.  The crew tubes don't fold up - they can fit in the larger containers, but not in the smaller.  (You'll notice they are bigger than the container...)  For this size base I'd use flex-o-tubes, but you could have shipped the tube on the outside of the container somehow.  Note that crew tubes are also to large to fit in a Kerbal's inventory - though they are light enough to maneuver and to push around.

4.  Known issue with KIS and inflatable/expandable parts.  It affects a few other mods, but not many use inflatables as much as MKS.  (The only other that does, Pathfinder, has an imperfect workaround in place that masks it but causes other minor issues.)

As for what you 'should' be doing - you should be doing whatever works for you.  MKS works with a large range of base styles - I've done bases like the one you're building, I've landed Duna modules in self contained packages, I've built stuff out using EL, I've connected up Tundra modules that were shipped up separately, etc.  How you physically set up the modules is up to you.  It *is* complicated, and has several long resource chains, but there is no 'right' way to do it.  (There are a couple of 'wrong' ways...)

[notthebobo]

11 hours ago, ruiluth said:

 

• When I transferred crew inside the base, their inventories apparently disappeared. Not sure if this is a bug with KIS but it usually works with other parts. The upshot of this is that the screwdriver I was using to put everything together is gone.

 

Valentina complained about all the Mun dust we brought in on our tools and other knock knacks, so she now requires that we install DERP toolbags by all our airlocks and leave every outside before coming in.

[voicey99]

2 hours ago, RoverDude said:

No offense, but this is incorrect.

Look at the OP for a couple of example pics.  Also - that Tundra module will be a lot easier to deal with if it is horizontal not vertical.

To me those bases look (by my definitions), relatively large and sprawling. Essentially, what I meant is that bases are supposed to be more than just a mini hab, airlock and commlab bolted onto a ballhub. Tundra modules are easier to use when vertical if there is only one of them to avert major balance issues when launching-of course, if you are willing to rearrange everything later or assemble your modules onsite to make them look better or easier to access it's not a problem, but for single launches it's better to stack them vertically for ease of transportation.

YMMV.

[RoverDude]

True, but I tend to use GC to drop them in so they can be pretty

[jd284]

12 hours ago, ruiluth said:

When I transferred crew inside the base, their inventories apparently disappeared. Not sure if this is a bug with KIS but it usually works with other parts. The upshot of this is that the screwdriver I was using to put everything together is gone.

It's a design flaw in KIS that cannot be fixed.

However, the latest KIS release will prevent such crew transfers and show an error message instead of eating the inventories.

[voicey99]

1 minute ago, RoverDude said:

True, but I tend to use GC to drop them in so they can be pretty

I have no regard whatsoever for aesthetics-I like the challenge of shipping everything in from the big K. I tell myself that I don't want to add building spaceship parts out of cogs and circuit boards to the (thankfully relatively short) list of teeth-grinding things about KSP .

7 minutes ago, jd284 said:

However, the latest KIS release will prevent such crew transfers and show an error message instead of eating the inventories.

I hope you can chuck stuff on the ground and come and pick it up later if you want to get back in.

[jd284]

29 minutes ago, voicey99 said:

I hope you can chuck stuff on the ground and come and pick it up later if you want to get back in.

You can. Well, KIS lets you drop it, but the game likes to blow stuff up when it touches the ground, so YMMV. Better put it in a box, the MKS hubs and airlocks have a small inventory space you can put it in for this reason.

[sh1pman]

6 hours ago, RoverDude said:

https://github.com/BobPalmer/USI_Constellation/releases/tag/2017.05.19.01

If you still have the same issue let me know and I'll take a look

Still doesn't work. Also, my base started shaking and moving around like it's haunted 

[RoverDude]

2 minutes ago, sh1pman said:

Still doesn't work. Also, my base started shaking and moving around like it's haunted 

Save file?

[sh1pman]

6 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

Save file?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2hpprw38d5lxkaw/savefile.sfs?dl=0

The base in question is called "Eve City", there is also another vessel with efficiency parts nearby.

Without efficiency parts the silicon production is negative, so it will be drained after some time. But if they are working properly, it should accumulate over time.

Edited May 19, 2017 by sh1pman

[Matou1612]

I apparently cannot get the parts to load in my game. i downloaded the right version, and i put it in my Game data folder. Can you help?

[Soda Popinski]

The GitHub manual states biologists can do research.  I don't see that happening?  Do I need to level them up more, am I bugging out, or is that out dated information?

[goldenpsp]

1 hour ago, Matou1612 said:

I apparently cannot get the parts to load in my game. i downloaded the right version, and i put it in my Game data folder. Can you help?

With that amount of information?  no.  Maybe post a screenshot of your gamedata folder.  Some other information? what actually happens when loading KSP etc.  Put yourself on the other side and ask yourself, what information would I need to answer my own question?

[TauPhraim]

4 hours ago, Soda Popinski said:

The GitHub manual states biologists can do research.  I don't see that happening?  Do I need to level them up more, am I bugging out, or is that out dated information?

They do research as in, contributing to increasing MKS bonuses for planets they reside on. And collecting science via MKS parts that offer a "Check Kolony Rewards" button.

But they don't work in stock science labs.