Noel32

Large land bases

53 posts in this topic

I'm starting to suspect that large ground bases are not really possible in ksp as in my crawling  of the inter web I haven't seen many pictures of large ground bases even with mods, at most I see a few separate vessels parked nearby each other. This combined with my own limited attempts at land base making all thus far ending in catastrophe due buggyness makes me wonder what is really feasible on the planets and moons of ksp?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Define: large. As I have seen MANY, pretty, large bases. It's not super impossible just hard, you need to make sure when building modules that the landing gear is not super off. It's pretty much making a space station on the ground.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are two things that - together - make large ground bases rare:

  1. They are difficult to make. This is caused my many things. It's hard to land exactly where you want, within a meter or two. It's even harder to land right on a docking port or right next to another vessel and aimed the correct way. As a base gets larger, framerate issues will exacerbate this. And if you're getting framerate issues building the base, good luck landing a sizeable ship near it.
  2. They serve no purpose. Once you have a huge sprawling ground base built, what can you do with it that you couldn't do with a smaller base? Answer: Nothing.

Now either of those things can be overcome. If they're hard to make but useful, that's just good gameplay. If they're useless but easier to make, hey why not this is mostly a sandbox game anyway and woot they look cool. But putting both together eliminates both sides of the player pool from building them.

5 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's a really good tutorial that will help you with building large land bases.  check out this thread, in my experience it's by far the best way of building your bases:

 

I've developed a mission in the past using precisely this technique, standard launchers and EDL packages, and using tractors to assemble units on the surface of another planet.  Once I had overcome the engineering challenges it was actually really really easy to churn out modules and fire them at Duna.  assembling them on the other end required only semi accurate landings due to the tractors which were capable of covering large distances with the base modules:

there's definitely bigger and better examples around.  this is how large my base was when finished (10 individual modules all flown, landed, and assembled at Duna)

Image result for speeding mullet duna base

 

Given this experience, I'm very happy (as I'm sure others are) to help guide you on your mission to create large ground bases.

 

EDIT.  this post explains things a little better perhaps if you are time pressed:

SM

Edited by Speeding Mullet
5 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You kinda need mods to justify larger bases. Though the infrastructure to support a isru refueling base isn't exactly small. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, sardia said:

You kinda need mods to justify larger bases. Though the infrastructure to support a isru refueling base isn't exactly small. 

Not exactly, but its not large.

This is more than enough "infrastructure" for any practical need:

hTOcaAx.png

Even the much smaller craft in the background was serving my needs as a miner and fuel transport (made before the small ISRU was introduced). Obviously the bigger one is more efficient in terms of fuel fraction to orbit, and mining speed/number of trips needed to fuel a vessel.

This module is all I need to brign to my surface bases to give them ISRU refueling capability:

EZaYYQG.png

Like so:

1aPSPuF.png

Mainly the reason I don't make surface bases bigger than that has been stated: there is no need to. Also, high part counts are bad.

This base has all I need:

OENuo74.png

Fuel to orbit? Dock the orange tank rover to the dropship, fly it to orbit (but I still prefer the large mining vessel that is basically an on demand fuel depot) seen in the background here:

Spoiler

1aPSPuF.png

Return to kerbin? There's a fully fueled spaceplane sitting right there. Research? there's a lab and a full set of science experiments (note that the lab is air transportable, and can be carrier to any biome, and the dropship can get at least a 40 ton payload to the surface and back to orbit, and that science lab is far less than 40 tons). Kerbal capacity: 15 (3x 3 kerbal command pods, 1x 4 kerbal hitchhiker cabin, 1x 2 kerbal lab) - I need to update to 1.2 to add relay antennas to allow it to act as the center of a remote probe control network, but other than that... what purpose do I have for making it bigger?

Its modular, so I can add more fuel depot or hab or mining modules... but why bother docking them? KSP's mutli-core support means that 2x 100 part vessels will run significantly faster than 1x 200 part vessel.

I see no reason for larger bases, and if you want larger ones, I see no reason to have them all linked together, as opposed to a collection of stuff at the surface. 

Maybe in real life when EVA is more involved, but not in KSP. Having them all *linkable* is useful for resource transfer, but that doesn't mean they should be kept linked.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, 5thHorseman said:

1. They serve no purpose. Once you have a huge sprawling ground base built, what can you do with it that you couldn't do with a smaller base? Answer: Nothing.

Yes, they do, a huge massive mining base can generate and store more fuel than a smaller one. You can actually send some ore back to Kerbin for some funds, just in case you know.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, NSEP said:

Yes, they do, a huge massive mining base can generate and store more fuel than a smaller one. You can actually send some ore back to Kerbin for some funds, just in case you know.

Well of course twice as many parts on an ISRU base = twice as much Rs U'd IS. But to actually utilize all that you will basically be playing Space Trucker Simulator 2017 for the rest of time.

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

rQHexFN.png

PQ5bnN9.png

wxcY69p.png

 

How much larger would you want to go?
 

 

10 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, 5thHorseman said:

There are two things that - together - make large ground bases rare:

  1. They are difficult to make. ...
  2. They serve no purpose. ....

 

1.  I admit there is a learning curve with building modules that fit together on another world, but a intermediate player can come up with systems to enable smooth connection between disparate parts on the surface of a planet. Landing them in close proximity to each other is where the challenge is.  That's why Minmus bases are easy, and Tylo bases are the realm of KSP masters. This is why the building of a surface base is the pinnacle of a given planet's or moon's achievement tree, as nothing else is harder (except maybe on Eve, since return is such a bear).

2.  I disagree.  Contract fulfillment, and the challenge are why you build bases stock.  You've mastered a world once you've put a multi segment habitat on it.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Birdco_Space said:

1.  I admit there is a learning curve with building modules that fit together on another world, but a intermediate player can come up with systems to enable smooth connection between disparate parts on the surface of a planet. Landing them in close proximity to each other is where the challenge is.  That's why Minmus bases are easy, and Tylo bases are the realm of KSP masters. This is why the building of a surface base is the pinnacle of a given planet's or moon's achievement tree, as nothing else is harder (except maybe on Eve, since return is such a bear).

2.  I disagree.  Contract fulfillment, and the challenge are why you build bases stock.  You've mastered a world once you've put a multi segment habitat on it.

 

ad 1) KIS.

ad 2) EL.

That base's purpose primary purpose is conquest of Eve. It's there to build and deploy segments of a permanent Eve base, with regular, routine flights to and from Eve surface. No "heroic landing, plant flag and epic return" but actually making Eve as reachable as Minmus.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BTW, earlier base - a massive fuel mining and manufacturing installation on Minmus. It was to service huge fuel tankers for refueling interplanetary missions in LKO.

 

e6XHJBv.png

It was plagued by Kraken though, due to my taking "too modular" approach which would create a bunch of phantom forces. Stuff like placing the nuclear reactor over a kilometer away and building a power line.

q3A7EOp.png

A successful base either needs to be quite monolithic, or with modules without physical joints, e.g. exploiting Pathfinder's "distributor" mechanics, where resources can be shared without mechanical link.

5 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Solution: Hperedit and MechJeb. (It's totally not cheating.)

Edited by Lo Var Lachland

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, 5thHorseman said:

Well of course twice as many parts on an ISRU base = twice as much Rs U'd IS. But to actually utilize all that you will basically be playing Space Trucker Simulator 2017 for the rest of time.

Well, if you have a big ITS like spacecraft, such a base would come in really handy. Sure, with a small base you can refuel a big spacecraft, but that takes time and alot more energy with mining and converting ore, just putting in some gas is waaay easier. And Space Trucker Simulator is alot easier if you go big because you need less Trucks to get stuff back. And on Minmus there is less gravity so you dont need lots of fuel and thrust, so yeah.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, NSEP said:

Well, if you have a big ITS like spacecraft, such a base would come in really handy. Sure, with a small base you can refuel a big spacecraft, but that takes time and alot more energy with mining and converting ore, just putting in some gas is waaay easier. And Space Trucker Simulator is alot easier if you go big because you need less Trucks to get stuff back. And on Minmus there is less gravity so you dont need lots of fuel and thrust, so yeah.

With that setup then I'd be playing Kerbal Slideshow Program.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, 5thHorseman said:

With that setup then I'd be playing Kerbal Slideshow Program.

Not for me! I would be playing Kerbal Kinda low FPS but still playable, also a tip: lower some graphics settings down Program :wink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, NSEP said:

lower some graphics settings down Program :wink:

NEVAR! :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

KSP speed largely depends on the part count, not vessel size. So going BIG doesn't need to mean low framerate. In particular, large parts mods like MkIV system, and Tweakscale help a lot, allowing you to make huge modules of moderate part count. My Minmus base was persistently running in the red with all its (stock) drills active. The Gilly base, roughly three times as big, runs in yellow, thanks to use of large parts - the Mining Expansion's "Terravore" drill for example has output of some 20 stock drills.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Sharpy said:

(3 pictures of an epic Gilly(?) base with a central tower that might generate NSFW comments from the less mature end of the internet )

 

How much larger would you want to go?
 

 

Is there a docking port at the top of that large spire?  I'm assuming this is Gilly, so how does RDVU with that work?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Birdco_Space said:

Is there a docking port at the top of that large spire?  I'm assuming this is Gilly, so how does RDVU with that work?

Nope, definitely no port there. Just a small DERP command pod, so that kerbals wouldn't need to fly up and down all the way. That thing is very light. I really, really don't want it to enter vibrations by adding heavy stuff on top. The screenshot is from before I installed solar panels - it has six of the large panels (like the ones seen in third screenshot, they were moved to the spire already, too vulnerable to random kerbals and objects crashing into them down below.) It serves to prolong sunlight supply as it can "see" the Sun over the neighbor hills and Gilly curvature much longer than the base below. (the base had to be located there, as only Gilly Midlands carry ore in this save, and this is probably the only piece of Midlands on the whole Gilly that isn't a murderous slope between Highlands and Lowlands (but instead, a "saddle" between two Highlands, which obscure the Sun a little too early for my liking.)

The only docking port used as an actual docking port in the base is in the second screen, where the "long range boat" that is to pick kerbals and parts from Eve low orbit is docked - visible from above, on the left of the two cargo containers. Otherwise, all "docking" is done through KAS winches and pipes - or just through engineer attaching stuff to the base using KIS. Currently a whole bunch of recovered parts, including a really oversized OPT K cockpit, are pasted to random places of the base all over the place awaiting the window to Kerbin, when I'll load them up on something and send them along with all the rescued kerbals home. (there's really a bunch...)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/01/2017 at 10:51 AM, Sharpy said:

rQHexFN.png

PQ5bnN9.png

wxcY69p.png

 

How much larger would you want to go?
 

 

I'm curious what mods are you using here, I can see Pathfinder stuff but where are the other non stock buildings from?

 

What is the large rectangular box?

Edited by Noel32

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Noel32 said:

I'm curious what mods are you using here, I can see Pathfinder stuff but where are the other non stock buildings from?

Planetary Bases (most of habitats and structures), Hangar (that one big thing), OSE Workshop (whatever's on "rack-like" legs), USI Kontainers (the 5m KIS containers), USI Freight Transport (Starlifter parts to deliver it; the structural piece that served as carrier for most freight is a part of the spire). One space station mod which I can't quite recall for the solar panels (really lousy thermal durability, everything explodes at 800K and you can get more across your base just from having an ISRU running overnight, so if you can find better huge solars, I'd be happy to know). The spire was built using "flexible corridor segments" of Planetary Bases, random corridor nodes (4-node, 6-node, 2-node) with the corridors attached to the ends and stretched as long as allowable, makes for very long very light structure and a 5m port on the bottom (to set it upright) which I honestly don't remember the mod for - the spire was built horizontally, then set upright using RCS - in particular, Honeybadger RCS and disposable BIC from my "Solid Electric" which are really great for base assembly work.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As for my two cents, a single large base indeed does not make much sense, at it is hard to launch at once, and also hard to land a large docked assembly. Some contracts do indeed require a certain number of kerbals at a certain place, and yes, then you do need a large-ish base. But a "Mars One" Scheme tends to go well with that, with modules on wheels that you cam dock one the ground. Otherwise, you can just send as lot of small capsules for a cheaper and almost as cool looking colony.

P.S. @Sharpy, where is that base, and that huge spire in your 3rd pic, is that just a bunk of Mk 1 fuselages, or a component from some mod?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Big bases is kind of all I do these days - with USI Kolonisation Systems.  Effectively all the "pieces" are landed separately and joined together on the surface, mostly using the weldable docking ports in USI Konstruction (calls for careful alignment back on Kerbin!) and using KIS to move stuff about for smaller pieces.

Note that caution needs to be applied when building large bases -- the Kraken awaits you if you try to build large bases and flimsy connections can mean disaster.  Also.  Don't for the love of god park your 350 ton base on a 35 degree slope.  It leads to terrifying slides through 5 kilometres and 3 biomes (and yes, explosions).

Anyway...

Dorothy Hodgkin base on Minmus:

7xPC69w.jpg

 

Ida Noddack base on Ike:

tCyaHnD.jpg

Hertha Ayrton base on Moho:  (A bit krakeny)

Jj4lUdl.png

NB here's what Moho looked like before joining together:

2vnN1VU.png

 

Vera Rubin base on Gilly:

GVIuM8h.jpg

I also have two on the Mun (messy, it's kind of the experimental one, has a lot of redundancies is fairly inefficient), Kerbin (barely used), one on the way to Dres and one on the way to Vall.

 

Edited by bigcalm
names of bases
4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, LetsGoToMars! said:

P.S. @Sharpy, where is that base, and that huge spire in your 3rd pic, is that just a bunk of Mk 1 fuselages, or a component from some mod?

Gilly. The spire is a couple "flexible corridor segments" from Planetary Bases, each stretched as far as it would go. (you can also do the same with Pathfinder's Mineshaft tunnel extenders, or with KAS pipes if you want to make it thinner).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now