FreeThinker

[1.22/1.3] KSPI Extended 1.14.15 (10-7-2017) SUPPORT / RELEASE THREAD

1148 posts in this topic

Why is the kerbstein drive locking my throttle. And what tank holds lithium hybrid.

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@FreeThinker I've developed a very low-tech use for your high-tech parts... one of them anyway.  I took the round fuel tank.. modified it to not hold fuel, weigh 5 tons, and have a much higher crash tolerance.  Basically a big metal ball.  Why would I do such a thing?  Well you know how when you're trying to find a level spot to put a base, and you're on the Mun and it's kind of uneven at the bottom of that crater?  Why not drop a heavy metal ball and let it roll to the lowest point?  Instant level finder!  seems to work well with the existing X11 tank until it hits 5.0 m/s and explodes.  going to test now with the strengthened solid ball.  It's basically just a copy of the X11's part folder plus tweaks to the .cfg file.  will paste the .cfg file here once I get it working.  Mk4 drop bays are great for this sort of thing.. will post a picture of the cargo plane that deploys it as well.

 

UPDATE:  Yes, it works *exactly* as I had hoped.  Here's the contents of the cfg... copy the X11 round tank folder to a new folder, change the name of that folder (put the new folder in the same dir as the old one, or build an entirely new tree under GameData, preserving the paths as FreeThinker has them in the existing mod) ... then just replace the .cfg file with this:

PART
{

// --- general parameters ---
name = LevelFinderSphere
module = Part
author = Zzz

// --- asset parameters ---
mesh = model.mu
scale = 1
rescaleFactor = 0.953

// --- node definitions ---
node_stack_bottom1 = 0.0, -1.22, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 1 
node_stack_bottom2 = 0.0, -1.0, 0.70, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 0 
//node_stack_bottom3 = 0.0, -1.0, -0.70, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 0 

node_attach = 0.0, -1.22, 0.0, 0.0, -1.0, 0.0, 1
node_stack_top = 0.0, 1.2, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0,  1

//node_stack_side01 = 0, 0, -1.225, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 0
//node_stack_side02 = 0, 0, 1.225, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 0

fx_gasBurst_white = -1.16832, 0.0, -0.0826454, -1.0, 0.0, 0.0, decouple
sound_vent_large = decouple


// --- editor parameters ---
TechRequired = specializedFuelStorage
entryCost = 8800
cost = 550
category = FuelTank
subcategory = 0
title = Level-Finding Sphere
manufacturer = Kerbin Drive Yards
description = For finding level ground, roll a giant ball.

// attachment rules: stack, srfAttach, allowStack, allowSrfAttach, allowCollision
attachRules = 0,1,0,0,0

// --- standard part parameters ---
mass = 5.0
dragModelType = default
maximum_drag = 0.2
minimum_drag = 0.3
angularDrag = 2
crashTolerance = 50
breakingForce = 50
breakingTorque = 50
maxTemp = 1200
fuelCrossFeed = True

stagingIcon = DECOUPLER_HOR
stageOffset = 1
childStageOffset = 1
bulkheadProfiles = srf

    DRAG_CUBE
    {
        cube = Default, 4.303,0.6923,1.394, 4.303,0.6923,1.374, 4.289,0.6527,1.37, 4.289,0.6542,1.39, 4.305,0.6624,1.263, 4.305,0.6623,1.263, 0,6.771E-15,5.68E-08, 2.339,2.35,2.336
    }

        MODULE
        {
        name = TweakScale
        type = stack
            defaultScale = 1
    
        scaleFactors = 0.5, 0.75, 1, 1.5, 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, 12, 16, 24, 32, 48, 64
        scaleNames = 50%, 75%, 100%, 150%, 200%, 300%, 400%, 600%, 800%, 1200%, 1600%, 2400%, 3200%, 4800%, 6400%
        }

        MODULE
        {
        name = ModuleAnchoredDecoupler
        anchorName = anchor
        ejectionForce = 0
        explosiveNodeID = srf
        }

        
}
 

 

Edited by ss8913

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Does the aperture of a relay matter?

Ie, do relays refocus a signal or just allow you to get a signal when its not in LOS and the beam spread is just based on sender and distance?

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40 minutes ago, BlackMoons said:

Does the aperture of a relay matter?

Ie, do relays refocus a signal or just allow you to get a signal when its not in LOS and the beam spread is just based on sender and distance?

The aperture currently does not matter. it currently only allows you to reach places where a direct line would not be possible. Relay do refocus the light but If there is a direct line of sight, it will always take that, even if it would lower overall efficiency. Once I add improves GUI ,I will be able to hammer out these problems, similar as I have do for power management

Edited by FreeThinker
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Waste heat 'auto scaling' during timewarp seems to defeat timewarp actually increasing the speed that things happen. While this might be Okish when you have a load or more or less steady state condition, its very annoying when trying to bleed off waste heat with no heat sources running (ie, after using thermal receivers and shutting them down) as it can take a few minutes just waiting for waste heat to bleed off.

ie, if you are losing 1% waste heat per second in real time, and you go to 100x speed, you only seem to lose say, 5% of your waste heat per second, instead of losing nearly it all in 1~2 seconds.

I assume this was to prevent reactors/thermal generators energy output from oscillating wildly at time warp? Since rads don't actually cool till hot, and cool a lot since hot, they would naturally oscillate between not cooling and cooling insane amounts every other frame given a standard time delta calculation.

I have an idea about fixing that without messing up time warp.

Basically, you need to calculate the steady state temperature given all connected heat sources and rads. Since thermal dissipation is linear with temperature, its basically Temp = Wattage * dissipation factor, usually known as C/W in heatsinks.

Then calculate a 'RC' constant based on max waste heat capacity(or just make one up!), that is the time it takes for everything to reach 63% of the steady state condition.

Then, each frame (While in physwarp?) instead of adding and subtracting waste heat, you interpolate between the current wasteheat amount and the steady state condition, based on what fraction of time has passed compared to the RC. RC times follow a log(?) scale and take into account the fact that as you reach the final state, less and less is transferred:

RC-Time-Constant-Rising-Voltage-Chart.jp

The result is this takes into account the fact that rads would have kicked in and started to cool things as temperature increases and that it takes time for the heat to build up.

RC time constants come from 'resistor capacitor' circuits, and indeed thermal modeling is often done with simple RC circuits in electronics simulators.

I am not 100% sure about 2nd order oscillations due to the fact that as thermal generators heat up, efficiency drops and they request more power (And produce more heat), But I think overall the system should be a lot more stable and much more accurate in timewarp.

it may not act the exact same at different phys warps, but I think it will at least act accurately enough that people won't be able to tell.

Edited by BlackMoons
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Is it at all possible to mine/extract Liquid Deuterium and Liquid Tritium? If this is possible, what are the steps and parts involved in detail? Would greatly appreciate the help.

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5 minutes ago, trias702 said:

Is it at all possible to mine/extract Liquid Deuterium and Liquid Tritium? If this is possible, what are the steps and parts involved in detail? Would greatly appreciate the help.

You can get Deuterium from oceans (Kerbin, Laythe)

Basically you put an IRSU (I forget what one, it has 'ocean extraction' in the 'refinery menu' thing) on to get the heavy water (and regular water and some other stuff too!) after landing it in an ocean.

Then, you use an electrolyiser to separate deuterium from the heavy water.

Tritium I think you have to make by having lithium-6 in your reactor (all reactors come with a boatload of the stuff, like 20+ years, but as it runs out you lose reactor output if its a fusion reactor) and having the reactor running (Higher power = more tritium)

You can mine certain ores and refine those into lithium-6. Again check the IRSU description for what ones.

Note theres also lithium-7, I think that is mainly used to power some plasma engines, Not the same stuff as lithium-6 but you often get both at the same time from the ores that give you them. Use the universal cargo container to store all this stuff, and the cryo container for the liquids.

Edited by BlackMoons

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1 hour ago, BlackMoons said:

So do relays use the original sending aperture for the refocusing?

when relayed, it will use the aperture of the relay and distance to the relay

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18 hours ago, Abstract_Kerman said:

Why is the kerbstein drive locking my throttle. And what tank holds lithium hybrid.

If it's locking throttle, disable them and you should be able to use your throttle again

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24 minutes ago, BlackMoons said:

You can get Deuterium from oceans (Kerbin, Laythe)

Basically you put an IRSU (I forget what one, it has 'ocean extraction' in the 'refinery menu' thing) on to get the heavy water (and regular water and some other stuff too!) after landing it in an ocean.

Then, you use an electrolyiser to separate deuterium from the heavy water.

Tritium I think you have to make by having lithium-6 in your reactor (all reactors come with a boatload of the stuff, like 20+ years, but as it runs out you lose reactor output if its a fusion reactor) and having the reactor running (Higher power = more tritium)

You can mine certain ores and refine those into lithium-6. Again check the IRSU description for what ones.

Note theres also lithium-7, I think that is mainly used to power some plasma engines, Not the same stuff as lithium-6 but you often get both at the same time from the ores that give you them. Use the universal cargo container to store all this stuff, and the cryo container for the liquids.

Thanks!

So from the ocean I will get raw "Deuterium", but how do I then turn that into "Liquid Deuterium"? Is it by using the ISRU refrigerator?

Also, I'm still a bit unsure about the Liquid Tritium. I understand how to get Lithium-6 from mining on a planet, but I'm not entirely sure how you then use the Li-6 to create Tritium. You mention doing it in a reactor, but which reactors can do this? All of them? How do you load the Li-6 into the reactor and then bake it into Tritium?

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19 minutes ago, FreeThinker said:

when relayed, it will use the aperture of the relay and distance to the relay

Oh so the aperture of the relay does matter. Good to know. I liked sending up those solar reflectors tweakscaled to 5m or 10m :0

Just now, trias702 said:

Thanks!

So from the ocean I will get raw "Deuterium", but how do I then turn that into "Liquid Deuterium"? Is it by using the ISRU refrigerator?

Also, I'm still a bit unsure about the Liquid Tritium. I understand how to get Lithium-6 from mining on a planet, but I'm not entirely sure how you then use the Li-6 to create Tritium. You mention doing it in a reactor, but which reactors can do this? All of them? How do you load the Li-6 into the reactor and then bake it into Tritium?

You get heavy water from the ocean, you get deuterium from processing that.

It will automatically fill up any liquid deuterium tanks. there is even a slider on said tanks if you want to shift it from liquid to gas (in some other tank). Sadly it seems boiloff does not go into the gasious tank if you lose power on a cryotank, and most things are designed to suck gas or liquid, they don't care what they get, so you can be producing deuterium without a gas tank to store it, and it will just turn into liquid instead.

The reactors come loaded with lithium stock. Im pretty sure they all do this, fission and fusion. Maybe not the antimatter ones, I havent unlocked those yet.

No idea how to load lithium, maybe you can just transfer it like a regular resource? Again most reactors come with like 20+ years of the stuff so iv never worried about it.

Btw, Later on theres lots of other stuff that you can use as fuel for fission engines. Including hydrogen+various ores, so don't get too hung up on the whole deuterium stuff. Personally, I prefer molten salt reactors in uranium burnup mode for long term power. Good for over a year at full power output without refueling! though learning now that I have to reprocess the waste or they lose power...

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Large Radial Atmospheric Scoop has 2 different CO2's listed when you toggle through resources while landed at KSC launch pad.

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Apparently you can also get nitrogen 15 from the atmosphere in not too terrible quantities.. interesting. Can't wait to have a reactor that can use it.

Bug: Large Folding Radiators (Graphene) become heavier then stock large folding radiators at 2x and larger scale.

And dissipate less then 1/2 as much as the regular stock large folding radiators, in orbit, at MK3 upgrade level for both types. Shouldn't they be an upgrade?

Edited by BlackMoons

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On 13-7-2017 at 10:28 PM, dankis said:

Bug report: Mk2 thermal power receiver

GEO relays don't connect when my plane is flying horizontally. As soon as I start pitching up to vertical position, relays connect. Seems like active sides of Mk2 are top and bottom instead of sides.

Thanks

 

To fix, add the following to MicrowavePowerReceiver partmodule:

receiverType = 1

 

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@FreeThinker May I please ask where in the KSPI-E codebase can I find the parameters which determine what percentage of a reactor's total power output is charged particle vs thermal output? For example, a reactor may have a total power output of 10 MW, but 8 MW are from charged particles and 2 MW from thermal. Where in the codebase are the parameters which determine this split for each reactor?

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8 minutes ago, trias702 said:

@FreeThinker May I please ask where in the KSPI-E codebase can I find the parameters which determine what percentage of a reactor's total power output is charged particle vs thermal output? For example, a reactor may have a total power output of 10 MW, but 8 MW are from charged particles and 2 MW from thermal. Where in the codebase are the parameters which determine this split for each reactor?

It's not a reactor parameter, it a reactor fuel mode poperty, which is a text file in the Resources folder

Edited by FreeThinker

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1 hour ago, FreeThinker said:

It's not a reactor parameter, it a reactor fuel mode poperty, which is a text file in the Resources folder

Thank you for that. I've been looking at the entries there and I have a question about how the game handles multiple entries in ReactorFuels.cfg which have the same exact names. For example, I note that ReactorFuels.cfg has the following two separate entries:

REACTOR_FUEL_MODE
{
	name = FusionLqdHe3Lthium6
	Index = 9
	ReactorType = 8
	GUIName = Lithium6-Helium3 Fusion
	Aneutronic = True
	ChargedParticleRatio = 0.999
	NeutronsRatio = 0.001
	NormalisedReactionRate = 0.7
	NormalisedPowerMultiplier = 0.672
	NormalisedPowerConsumption = 3
	MeVPerChargedProduct = 1.079411
	TechRequirement = advFusionReactions
	RequiresUpgrade = False
	RequiresLab = False
	TechLevel = 3

	FUEL
	{
		name = Helium3
		UsagePerMW = 1.84222799e-12
		Unit = kg
	}
	FUEL
	{
		name = Lithium6
		UsagePerMW = 3.67411136e-12
		Unit = kg
	}
   	PRODUCT
    	{
        	name = Helium
        	ProductionPerMW = 5.516e-12
        	Unit = kg
    	}
}

And:

REACTOR_FUEL_MODE
{
	name = FusionLqdHe3Lthium6
	Index = 9
	ReactorType = 8
	GUIName = Lithium6-Helium3 Fusion
	Aneutronic = True
	ChargedParticleRatio = 0.999
	NeutronsRatio = 0.001
	NormalisedReactionRate = 0.9
	NormalisedPowerMultiplier = 1.04
	NormalisedPowerConsumption = 3
	MeVPerChargedProduct = 1.079411
	TechRequirement = advFusionReactions
	RequiresUpgrade = False
	RequiresLab = False
	TechLevel = 3

	FUEL
	{
		name = Helium3
		resource = LqdHe3
		UsagePerMW = 1.84222799e-12
		Unit = kg
	}
	FUEL
	{
		name = Lithium6
		UsagePerMW = 3.67411136e-12
		Unit = kg
	}
   	PRODUCT
    	{
        	name = Helium
        	ProductionPerMW = 5.516e-12
        	Unit = kg
    	}
}

The main differences between them are that the second one has different NormalisedReactionRate and NormalisedPowerMultiplier, along with "resource = LqdHe3". At first I thought this would mean that the second entry would be active if I used Liquid Helium 3 instead of regular Helium 3, however, on testing this hypothesis in the game, I note that it does NOT work like that. The game only uses the very first entry, in terms of NormalisedReactionRate/PowerMultiplier, irregardless of if you use Helium3 or Liquid Helium3. That would seem to indicate that the game will only use the first entry present, is that correct? Or is there a bug here somehow?

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1 hour ago, trias702 said:

Thank you for that. I've been looking at the entries there and I have a question about how the game handles multiple entries in ReactorFuels.cfg which have the same exact names. For example, I note that ReactorFuels.cfg has the following two separate entries:


REACTOR_FUEL_MODE
{
	name = FusionLqdHe3Lthium6
	Index = 9
	ReactorType = 8
	GUIName = Lithium6-Helium3 Fusion
	Aneutronic = True
	ChargedParticleRatio = 0.999
	NeutronsRatio = 0.001
	NormalisedReactionRate = 0.7
	NormalisedPowerMultiplier = 0.672
	NormalisedPowerConsumption = 3
	MeVPerChargedProduct = 1.079411
	TechRequirement = advFusionReactions
	RequiresUpgrade = False
	RequiresLab = False
	TechLevel = 3

	FUEL
	{
		name = Helium3
		UsagePerMW = 1.84222799e-12
		Unit = kg
	}
	FUEL
	{
		name = Lithium6
		UsagePerMW = 3.67411136e-12
		Unit = kg
	}
   	PRODUCT
    	{
        	name = Helium
        	ProductionPerMW = 5.516e-12
        	Unit = kg
    	}
}

And:


REACTOR_FUEL_MODE
{
	name = FusionLqdHe3Lthium6
	Index = 9
	ReactorType = 8
	GUIName = Lithium6-Helium3 Fusion
	Aneutronic = True
	ChargedParticleRatio = 0.999
	NeutronsRatio = 0.001
	NormalisedReactionRate = 0.9
	NormalisedPowerMultiplier = 1.04
	NormalisedPowerConsumption = 3
	MeVPerChargedProduct = 1.079411
	TechRequirement = advFusionReactions
	RequiresUpgrade = False
	RequiresLab = False
	TechLevel = 3

	FUEL
	{
		name = Helium3
		resource = LqdHe3
		UsagePerMW = 1.84222799e-12
		Unit = kg
	}
	FUEL
	{
		name = Lithium6
		UsagePerMW = 3.67411136e-12
		Unit = kg
	}
   	PRODUCT
    	{
        	name = Helium
        	ProductionPerMW = 5.516e-12
        	Unit = kg
    	}
}

The main differences between them are that the second one has different NormalisedReactionRate and NormalisedPowerMultiplier, along with "resource = LqdHe3". At first I thought this would mean that the second entry would be active if I used Liquid Helium 3 instead of regular Helium 3, however, on testing this hypothesis in the game, I note that it does NOT work like that. The game only uses the very first entry, in terms of NormalisedReactionRate/PowerMultiplier, irregardless of if you use Helium3 or Liquid Helium3. That would seem to indicate that the game will only use the first entry present, is that correct? Or is there a bug here somehow?

Good find, you found a copy paste mistake, the first one should have been called

FusionHe3Lithium6

Not how it should function is that all submodes with the same GUIName are grouped together and allow the reactor to automatically use alternative resources if the first one isn't found. This way, are reactor can run a chemical resources in different states, gas, liquid or solid, without the user having to switch between them. This eve works for compound resources like LithiumDeteride, which is used for D-T fusion. The Deuterium is fused with the Tritium from Lithium made by Neutrons

Lithium.png

 

brennstoff1-e.jpg

 

Edited by FreeThinker

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1 hour ago, FreeThinker said:

Good find, you found a copy paste mistake, the first one should have been called


FusionHe3Lithium6

I just tested your fix, by changing the name field as you specified. However, it doesn't work, insofar as using Liquid He3 instead of regular He3 still uses the NormalisedReactionRate and NormalisedPowerMultiplier from the NON-liquid He3 submode. The only way to get the system to apply the different NRR and NPM values from the two different submodes is to give them different GUINames too, and then select the correct GUIName in the Reactor Control Window in game. I just tested this and it was the only way I could get the system to respect the different NRR/NPM values from each submode which differs only in the gas vs liquid state of the helium 3.

 

Given your diagram, am I correct in my understanding that the only way to produce tritium in KSPI is to breed it in a reactor? There is no way to mine it at all?

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46 minutes ago, trias702 said:

I just tested your fix, by changing the name field as you specified. However, it doesn't work, insofar as using Liquid He3 instead of regular He3 still uses the NormalisedReactionRate and NormalisedPowerMultiplier from the NON-liquid He3 submode. The only way to get the system to apply the different NRR and NPM values from the two different submodes is to give them different GUINames too, and then select the correct GUIName in the Reactor Control Window in game. I just tested this and it was the only way I could get the system to respect the different NRR/NPM values from each submode which differs only in the gas vs liquid state of the helium 3.

Oh yes it will always use the NormalisedReactionRate and NormalisedPowerMultiplier  of the first entry, only the Resources difference has an effect

46 minutes ago, trias702 said:

Given your diagram, am I correct in my understanding that the only way to produce tritium in KSPI is to breed it in a reactor? There is no way to mine it at all?

You can mine it from the atmosphere but the quantities are extremely low)

There are several much more effective ways to a collect/maintain Tritium:

A : from Lithium neutron absorption (implemented as Litium6 breeding)

B : Cold Deuterium Fusion (implement as fusion mode))

C:  from Helium3  neutron absorption (not implemented as process but Tritium next to Neutron source will not degrade into Helium3 due to neutron absorption)

Edited by FreeThinker

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10 hours ago, FreeThinker said:

Oh yes it will always use the NormalisedReactionRate and NormalisedPowerMultiplier  of the first entry, only the Resources difference has an effect

But then why do some of the different submodes in the file have different NormalisedReactionRate/NormalisedPowerMultipliers (based on liquid vs gas) if these different reactor parameters cannot actually be used by the game? For example, for the TriAlpha reactor, the Lithium6-LiquidHelium3 parameters are WAY better than the ones for Lithium6-GasHelium3, but currently, they cannot be taken advantage of since Lithium6-GasHelium3 comes first in the file.

11 hours ago, FreeThinker said:

A : from Lithium neutron absorption (implemented as Litium6 breeding)

I'm not sure I understand, how do I implement this in game?

11 hours ago, FreeThinker said:

B : Cold Deuterium Fusion (implement as fusion mode))

I had a look in ReactorFuels.cfg, and none of the cold deuterium fusion methods seem to generate any tritium. Looking at the file, it appears only the following actually create tritium: "Spin polarized Helium3-Deuterium Fusion" and "He3 Catalyzed D-D Fusion"

 

On a somewhat unrelated question, may I please ask if it's possible to create LithiumHydride fuel from mining/ISRU? I can mine lithium directly with a drill, or extract Lithium6 from silicates. Is there a next step I can do to turn either of these into LithiumHydride?

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1 hour ago, trias702 said:

But then why do some of the different submodes in the file have different NormalisedReactionRate/NormalisedPowerMultipliers (based on liquid vs gas) if these different reactor parameters cannot actually be used by the game? For example, for the TriAlpha reactor, the Lithium6-LiquidHelium3 parameters are WAY better than the ones for Lithium6-GasHelium3, but currently, they cannot be taken advantage of since Lithium6-GasHelium3 comes first in the file.

1

That doesn't sound right, all reaction properties with the same GUIName should be the same  (and differ only on resources). The second entry was clearly a mistake. fortunately, it will not have an effect except confuse people that try to understand the config file. I will fix it either way.

1 hour ago, trias702 said:

I'm not sure I understand, how do I implement this in game?

1

Its the main Tritium breeding process, whenever a fusion process produces neutrons, it will be used to convert Lithium-6 into Tritium + Helium. If it's missing, the neutron will not be converted into energy (loss of power) and instead irradiate the reactor which causes wasteheat and neutron embrittlement.  Shortage of Lithium is compariblewith shortage of blood, not good.

1 hour ago, trias702 said:

I had a look in ReactorFuels.cfg, and none of the cold deuterium fusion methods seem to generate any tritium. Looking at the file, it appears only the following actually create tritium: "Spin polarized Helium3-Deuterium Fusion" and "He3 Catalyzed D-D Fusion"

2

Yes your right, I confused it with Helium-3. Tritium tends to fuse at relatively low temperatures. Notice that most of the time, Tritium is not an issue because a closed loop fusion reaction breeds enough Tritium to sustain itself. Only for open cycle fusion engine like the VISTA, you need large quanties of Tritium of it which you need to make by either breeding or buy on the market for a high price

1 hour ago, trias702 said:

On a somewhat unrelated question, may I please ask if it's possible to create LithiumHydride fuel from mining/ISRU? I can mine lithium directly with a drill, or extract Lithium6 from silicates. Is there a next step I can do to turn either of these into LithiumHydride?

 

Currently not, but Its actually a really simple reaction, just make hydrogen react with lithium. I will add it to the ISRU producer part

Edited by FreeThinker

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