Maelstrom Vortex Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 (edited) @FreeThinker Don't know if you can make this happen or not, but I have an idea for a new part.. a very critical part. Can you create a relatively universal graphene nosecone/radiator? I'm using the graphene body panels to make a nose cap, but it doesn't cover well so I end up having to use 4 panels to make the cap. Basically the nosecone would fit into it sort of like a finger tip into a glove. I know each nose can be different so I think the hardest part of this would be modeling it to be able to fit as many craft as plausible. I thought it might work like one of those customizable adapters I've seen in one mod where the end comes to a vertex point but the open end is able to be adjusted in diameter while the center is hollow. Edited June 21, 2017 by Maelstrom Vortex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nansuchao Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 1 hour ago, Maelstrom Vortex said: @FreeThinker Don't know if you can make this happen or not, but I have an idea for a new part.. a very critical part. Can you create a relatively universal graphene nosecone/radiator? I'm using the graphene body panels to make a nose cap, but it doesn't cover well so I end up having to use 4 panels to make the cap. Basically the nosecone would fit into it sort of like a finger tip into a glove. I know each nose can be different so I think the hardest part of this would be modeling it to be able to fit as many craft as plausible. I thought it might work like one of those customizable adapters I've seen in one mod where the end comes to a vertex point but the open end is able to be adjusted in diameter while the center is hollow. Why not to configure some Procedural Parts to act as a radiator? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciro1983811 Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 @FreeThinker .... I think that for the end game, we need a "scifi" radiator with OP performances to couple with other "scifi" technologies that are already in the mod, like beam core AM or QSR, Acubierre, EMDrive ..... something to unlock in the last node of the CTT... that is able to run a 5mt beam core or QSR, or a 20 mt alcubierre, without too much radiator surface, maybe even launchable from the surface without too much drag, like some OP skin wrapper radiator, or stackable.... I don't think that something like this will unbalance the mod, because when you unlock that kind of sci-fi tech, you already have the kerbstein and other OP propulsion. And that will surely be useful for low-tech computers like mine. Actually i have lag troubles because I have to spam dozens of skin wrapper graphene radiators plus umbrellas and foldable and etc. etc. Bye, Ciro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeThinker Posted June 22, 2017 Author Share Posted June 22, 2017 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Ciro1983811 said: @FreeThinker .... I think that for the end game, we need a "scifi" radiator with OP performances to couple with other "scifi" technologies that are already in the mod, like beam core AM or QSR, Acubierre, EMDrive ..... something to unlock in the last node of the CTT... that is able to run a 5mt beam core or QSR, or a 20 mt alcubierre, without too much radiator surface, maybe even launchable from the surface without too much drag, like some OP skin wrapper radiator, or stackable.... I don't think that something like this will unbalance the mod, because when you unlock that kind of sci-fi tech, you already have the kerbstein and other OP propulsion. And that will surely be useful for low-tech computers like mine. Actually i have lag troubles because I have to spam dozens of skin wrapper graphene radiators plus umbrellas and foldable and etc. etc. Bye, Ciro. Perhaps you didn't notice but KSPI radiators are quite OP already A better solution would be to be prevent wasteheat to be generated in the first place Could you send me your vessel and I will see what I can do to improve your performance Edited June 22, 2017 by FreeThinker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciro1983811 Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, FreeThinker said: Perhaps you didn't notice but KSPI radiators are quite OP already A better solution would be to be prevent wasteheat to be generated in the first place Could you send me your vessel and I will see what I can do to improve your performance Ok, i'll do it in the evening. But it's a heavily modded ship, it uses also MKS, USI-LS, Kerbal-Foundries for antigrav landing gear, Hangars. It's a SSTW (single stage to warp) of about 15000 metric Tons capable of transporting in the hangar a 25mt long ship, and with orbital maneuvering dV of about 2.000 km/sec dV at 1.5-2G. It has space for 20 kerbals, 20 years hab time and agroponics/greenhouses, a spinning hab wheel, methane for thermal jets with atmo scoops for refueling at gas giants ...... big one .. 5 fps NB: also, a good improvement for alcubierres, should be that the system prevent selecting speeds that starve the power generators. Limit max c depending on available power, not only gravitational pull. Otherwise sometimes happen that you select too high (or too low) c and it spit you out of warp stranded ... and sometimes also with reactors shut off and no way to recover. Edited June 22, 2017 by Ciro1983811 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raxo2222 Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 Something broken is with cold batch temperature in thermal generator. Its much colder than air temperature of around 290 kelvins and radiator temperature of 332 kelvins. Also at max (cheated wasteheat) it gets locked at around 2000 K even though radiator can heat up to 2600 K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss8913 Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 6 hours ago, Ciro1983811 said: Ok, i'll do it in the evening. But it's a heavily modded ship, it uses also MKS, USI-LS, Kerbal-Foundries for antigrav landing gear, Hangars. It's a SSTW (single stage to warp) of about 15000 metric Tons capable of transporting in the hangar a 25mt long ship, and with orbital maneuvering dV of about 2.000 km/sec dV at 1.5-2G. It has space for 20 kerbals, 20 years hab time and agroponics/greenhouses, a spinning hab wheel, methane for thermal jets with atmo scoops for refueling at gas giants ...... big one .. 5 fps NB: also, a good improvement for alcubierres, should be that the system prevent selecting speeds that starve the power generators. Limit max c depending on available power, not only gravitational pull. Otherwise sometimes happen that you select too high (or too low) c and it spit you out of warp stranded ... and sometimes also with reactors shut off and no way to recover. @FreeThinker I second Ciro's suggestions about limiting unavailable speeds. Also if the maximum tonnage/warp-to-mass ratio for the alcubierre drive could be displayed in VAB/SPH like it is in flight, that would be convenient, albeit non-critical Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeThinker Posted June 22, 2017 Author Share Posted June 22, 2017 3 hours ago, raxo2222 said: Something broken is with cold batch temperature in thermal generator. Its much colder than air temperature of around 290 kelvins and radiator temperature of 332 kelvins. No this looks about right, cold bath in reactor is lower then the radiator where the temperature is raised by compression, like in a refrigerator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raxo2222 Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 (edited) 56 minutes ago, FreeThinker said: No this looks about right, cold bath in reactor is lower then the radiator where the temperature is raised by compression, like in a refrigerator So cold bath is essentially after-cooler? In this pic cold bath is colder than ambient heat by around 50 kelvins - in stock KSC air temp is at 290 kelvins. There must be strong refrigeration. Wow it can cool down thermal generator by 900 kelvins, when radiator runs at 3700 kelvins! Molten salt reactor very quickly throttles down and up, when its cold batch temp is higher than core temp. Edited June 22, 2017 by raxo2222 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chase842 Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 (edited) I just want to mention again that I cannot get the thermal turbojet to produce any thrust. I have: - The engine is directly attached to a Plasma Beam Core Antimatter Reactor. - All three antimatter tanks, including the radial one, and they are full of fuel. - All forms of hydrogen possible. Solid, liquid, and whatever comes in the radial antimatter tank. - Ammonia(or any other) fuel. - My engine is set to use the above mentioned fuel. - I have tried with and without radiators on the reactor. - Plenty of electric charge and megajoules. As I stated before it ONLY produces thrust for a split second when I hit z or hold shift to accelerate from 0 throttle. I have gotten advice from some people earlier that has not helped, so I just wanted to inform you that there still is a problem. I don't know why more people have not raised this issue, as it effects all thermally related engines in my games ever since 1.14.3. I have re-linstalled, used only required KSP-I mods, as to eliminate the possibility of the problem being cause by another mod, and yet the issue persists. Also I still have some reactors with nothing displaying in their reactor control window. If this is not a bug and there are changes to the current mechanics or there are new mechanics to the mod, that aren't clearly stated in the change log since 1.14.2, then would someone please update the wiki and/or main page with instructions on how to make things actually work with this mod> I have spent almost a dozen hours ever since 1.14.3 trying to figure this out, and I have read the cfgs for both the reactors and engines, and I see nothing, so I am guessing there must be differences in the dlls, which I cannot currently get Visual Studio to open, and I am Python/Java programmer, and not a c/c++, so I may not even be able to find the bug anyways. I just thought I'd make you all aware of this, and I hope someone can help me find a solution. For now I will be using 1.14.2 until I can get this resolved. Thank you. Edited June 23, 2017 by Chase842 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciro1983811 Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Chase842 said: 14 hours ago, Ciro1983811 said: Ok, i'll do it in the evening. But it's a heavily modded ship, it uses also MKS, USI-LS, Kerbal-Foundries for antigrav landing gear, Hangars. It's a SSTW (single stage to warp) of about 15000 metric Tons capable of transporting in the hangar a 25mt long ship, and with orbital maneuvering dV of about 2.000 km/sec dV at 1.5-2G. It has space for 20 kerbals, 20 years hab time and agroponics/greenhouses, a spinning hab wheel, methane for thermal jets with atmo scoops for refueling at gas giants ...... big one .. 5 fps NB: also, a good improvement for alcubierres, should be that the system prevent selecting speeds that starve the power generators. Limit max c depending on available power, not only gravitational pull. Otherwise sometimes happen that you select too high (or too low) c and it spit you out of warp stranded ... and sometimes also with reactors shut off and no way to recover. Edited 1 hour ago by Chase842 @FreeThinker I managed to make an album of screenshots of my maiden test flight of the ship ... sorry I made a typo .. it's 25000 metric Ton ... LOL.. so far so good, and I think i understood the wasteheat raising rate...it's from AIF Reactors that when turbojets are not running, having only CP generators, and alcubierre want them all at full power for exoticmatter charging, , so the termal power of 4 10mt AIF Reactors is wasted... but because they are 10mt diameter, MHD Gen 10m is too long and heavy... anyway ... it work... Here it is... SSTW maiden flight .. first to jool, then to IA-Revived K-2 starand his planet Galene .. still need to reasses ejection mass selection in function of ISRU refuelling options (methane scoop is way too slow, maibe hydrogen, but i will loose thrust in respect to methane) and to learn manage warp orbital mechanics to not waste fuel on arrival burns. Here's the KerbalX link: https://kerbalx.com/Ciro1983811/SSTW Edited June 23, 2017 by Ciro1983811 Added Craft link on KerbalX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeThinker Posted June 23, 2017 Author Share Posted June 23, 2017 (edited) 5 hours ago, Chase842 said: I just want to mention again that I cannot get the thermal turbojet to produce any thrust. I have: - The engine is directly attached to a Plasma Beam Core Antimatter Reactor. - All three antimatter tanks, including the radial one, and they are full of fuel. - All forms of hydrogen possible. Solid, liquid, and whatever comes in the radial antimatter tank. - Ammonia(or any other) fuel. - My engine is set to use the above mentioned fuel. - I have tried with and without radiators on the reactor. - Plenty of electric charge and megajoules. As I stated before it ONLY produces thrust for a split second when I hit z or hold shift to accelerate from 0 throttle. I have gotten advice from some people earlier that has not helped, so I just wanted to inform you that there still is a problem. I don't know why more people have not raised this issue, as it effects all thermally related engines in my games ever since 1.14.3. I have re-linstalled, used only required KSP-I mods, as to eliminate the possibility of the problem being cause by another mod, and yet the issue persists. Also I still have some reactors with nothing displaying in their reactor control window. If this is not a bug and there are changes to the current mechanics or there are new mechanics to the mod, that aren't clearly stated in the change log since 1.14.2, then would someone please update the wiki and/or main page with instructions on how to make things actually work with this mod> I have spent almost a dozen hours ever since 1.14.3 trying to figure this out, and I have read the cfgs for both the reactors and engines, and I see nothing, so I am guessing there must be differences in the dlls, which I cannot currently get Visual Studio to open, and I am Python/Java programmer, and not a c/c++, so I may not even be able to find the bug anyways. I just thought I'd make you all aware of this, and I hope someone can help me find a solution. For now I will be using 1.14.2 until I can get this resolved. Thank you. Looks like it should work, at least something similar works in my latest test. The problem you describe suspiciously sounds like another mod is interfering with the engine. To figure out what the problem is I need to have a closer look Could you send me a link to your vessel and like of installed mods so I can figure out what the problem is exactly Edited June 23, 2017 by FreeThinker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeThinker Posted June 23, 2017 Author Share Posted June 23, 2017 (edited) 8 hours ago, Ciro1983811 said: @FreeThinker I managed to make an album of screenshots of my maiden test flight of the ship ... sorry I made a typo .. it's 25000 metric Ton ... LOL.. so far so good, and I think i understood the wasteheat raising rate...it's from AIF Reactors that when turbojets are not running, having only CP generators, and alcubierre want them all at full power for exoticmatter charging, , so the termal power of 4 10mt AIF Reactors is wasted... but because they are 10mt diameter, MHD Gen 10m is too long and heavy... anyway ... it work... Here it is... SSTW maiden flight .. first to jool, then to IA-Revived K-2 starand his planet Galene .. still need to reasses ejection mass selection in function of ISRU refuelling options (methane scoop is way too slow, maibe hydrogen, but i will loose thrust in respect to methane) and to learn manage warp orbital mechanics to not waste fuel on arrival burns. Here's the KerbalX link: https://kerbalx.com/Ciro1983811/SSTW Wow, 125 static radiators, that would indeed incur a significant performance lag. I see a lot of room for improvement The strategy I'm thinking about are: Mark all static skin radiators as physicsless Replace multiple skin radiator by stretched or merged parts Replace per radiator processing calculations by a global radiator processing (they are all essentially making the same calculation) Edited June 23, 2017 by FreeThinker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciro1983811 Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 Yes, indeed, the big lag begun when all the radiators are placed ... global radiator processing it's a wonderfull idea..! and also physicsless skin radiators may be good. and .. @FreeThinker ... pleeeeeease ... give the Kerbstein a proper magnificent exaust plume .... this little blue whisper can't be seen X-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raxo2222 Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, Ciro1983811 said: Yes, indeed, the big lag begun when all the radiators are placed ... global radiator processing it's a wonderfull idea..! and also physicsless skin radiators may be good. and .. @FreeThinker ... pleeeeeease ... give the Kerbstein a proper magnificent exaust plume .... this little blue whisper can't be seen X-) Well tweak scale exists for reason Edited June 23, 2017 by raxo2222 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciro1983811 Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 Just now, raxo2222 said: Well tweak scale exists for reason Yes, indeed I tweakscaled all the skin radiators to the diameter of the part in witch they are attached to .....20mt, 10mt, 5mt...... the trouble is that if you want to do as streamlined as you could, you'll need a LOT of curved skin radiators of different diameters (speaking of, a good implementation could be curved skin radiators for adapters and conic tanks like the ones i used in my ship, instead of clipping 8 curved skin radiators that are meant to fit on a cylinder not a cone, we could use 4 truncated cone skin radiators ... ) Remember i'm trying to dissipate 2.000 GW .... with minimal foldable or not streamlined items ... Bye! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raxo2222 Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 33 minutes ago, Ciro1983811 said: Yes, indeed I tweakscaled all the skin radiators to the diameter of the part in witch they are attached to .....20mt, 10mt, 5mt...... the trouble is that if you want to do as streamlined as you could, you'll need a LOT of curved skin radiators of different diameters (speaking of, a good implementation could be curved skin radiators for adapters and conic tanks like the ones i used in my ship, instead of clipping 8 curved skin radiators that are meant to fit on a cylinder not a cone, we could use 4 truncated cone skin radiators ... ) Remember i'm trying to dissipate 2.000 GW .... with minimal foldable or not streamlined items ... Bye! Well curved radiators are useless for TW scale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciro1983811 Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 3 minutes ago, raxo2222 said: Well curved radiators are useless for TW scale. Well.... I managed to pull out almost 100GW with 125 of them ... hehehe .... the rest of 2 TW went to 5 generators, alcubierre etc etc... other 100GW to two large folding radiators .... more or less the ship works fine... if you dont stay in warp for more than some years... the wasteheat only raise very slowly ... eventually sooner or later in continuos warp at 10c ... the ship will overheat... but i can't imagine where to go in warp for years and years ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss8913 Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 19 hours ago, Chase842 said: I just want to mention again that I cannot get the thermal turbojet to produce any thrust. I have: - The engine is directly attached to a Plasma Beam Core Antimatter Reactor. - All three antimatter tanks, including the radial one, and they are full of fuel. - All forms of hydrogen possible. Solid, liquid, and whatever comes in the radial antimatter tank. - Ammonia(or any other) fuel. - My engine is set to use the above mentioned fuel. - I have tried with and without radiators on the reactor. - Plenty of electric charge and megajoules. As I stated before it ONLY produces thrust for a split second when I hit z or hold shift to accelerate from 0 throttle. I have gotten advice from some people earlier that has not helped, so I just wanted to inform you that there still is a problem. I don't know why more people have not raised this issue, as it effects all thermally related engines in my games ever since 1.14.3. I have re-linstalled, used only required KSP-I mods, as to eliminate the possibility of the problem being cause by another mod, and yet the issue persists. Also I still have some reactors with nothing displaying in their reactor control window. If this is not a bug and there are changes to the current mechanics or there are new mechanics to the mod, that aren't clearly stated in the change log since 1.14.2, then would someone please update the wiki and/or main page with instructions on how to make things actually work with this mod> I have spent almost a dozen hours ever since 1.14.3 trying to figure this out, and I have read the cfgs for both the reactors and engines, and I see nothing, so I am guessing there must be differences in the dlls, which I cannot currently get Visual Studio to open, and I am Python/Java programmer, and not a c/c++, so I may not even be able to find the bug anyways. I just thought I'd make you all aware of this, and I hope someone can help me find a solution. For now I will be using 1.14.2 until I can get this resolved. Thank you. I use these engines in almost every design as well, and I have not had the problem... are you sure the engines are producing no thrust (as opposed to "the craft isn't moving" which with KSP can be a completely different issue)? shows 0.0kN in the engine's right-click window? If you open the reactor control window on the plasma beam core, does it say "<X> deprived" anywhere? Reactor isn't disabled? Crossfeed rules aren't prohibiting your propellant mass from getting to the engine? if there are couplers or docking ports in between the fuel tank and the engine, you may have to manually enable crossfeed. some parts don't allow crossfeed at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chase842 Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 (edited) @ss8913 57 minutes ago, ss8913 said: I use these engines in almost every design as well, and I have not had the problem... are you sure the engines are producing no thrust (as opposed to "the craft isn't moving" which with KSP can be a completely different issue)? shows 0.0kN in the engine's right-click window? If you open the reactor control window on the plasma beam core, does it say "<X> deprived" anywhere? Reactor isn't disabled? Crossfeed rules aren't prohibiting your propellant mass from getting to the engine? if there are couplers or docking ports in between the fuel tank and the engine, you may have to manually enable crossfeed. some parts don't allow crossfeed at all. Yes it is 0.0kN of thrust. The reactor does not show anything as being deprived. Crossfeed rules seem fine. No couplers or docking ports on the vessel. All Tanks are full with their respective fuels. Link to pic: Spoiler https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1ilcl3AU3R0UjVyaGZWNmdnS2c Here is a screenshot of a vessel with all windows with info opened. In the screenshot you can see the throttle is at full, but no thrust is being produced. @FreeThinker Where can I upload a craft file for you to look at it? Edited June 23, 2017 by Chase842 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raxo2222 Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 25 minutes ago, Chase842 said: @ss8913 Yes it is 0.0kN of thrust. The reactor does not show anything as being deprived. Crossfeed rules seem fine. No couplers or docking ports on the vessel. All Tanks are full with their respective fuels. Link to pic: Reveal hidden contents https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1ilcl3AU3R0UjVyaGZWNmdnS2c Here is a screenshot of a vessel with all windows with info opened. In the screenshot you can see the throttle is at full, but no thrust is being produced. @FreeThinker Where can I upload a craft file for you to look at it? It seems like thermal turbojets on antimatter reactor can't overcome atmospheric pressure, if they aren't in atmospheric mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chase842 Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 (edited) @raxo2222 No that is not the issue, as I stated in a post a few days ago. Here is another screen of the same vessel, but with a precooler and shock cone intake, and the engine set to atmospheric. Spoiler https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1ilcl3AU3R0RTlKQkdBLVBJNXM EDIT: Also something else interesting to note, is that the engine will not burn fuel. I'd be really surprised if I was the only one having this issue. Edited June 23, 2017 by Chase842 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chase842 Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 (edited) I think I may have found the source of the issue, although I have no clue how to solve it. I turned on advanced tweakables, and turned on fuel delivery overlay, and this is what I got. Spoiler https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1ilcl3AU3R0VDVxVjBBeWpHTjg The fuel never goes into the generator or reactor, let alone the engine. I've never used the fuel overlay before, and this may not be the source of the issue, but it sure does seem like a problem. EDIT: Even with the engine directly attached to a fuel tank, no fuel flows to it. Same thing with attaching a reactor or generator to a fuel tank. EDIT: Here is a pic of the same craft with KSP-I 1.14.2. It has a correct fuel flow overlay. So I think this is the issue! Spoiler https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1ilcl3AU3R0ZWFQdXp1X2h3MUE @FreeThinker Do you know how to solve this issue? Edited June 23, 2017 by Chase842 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeThinker Posted June 23, 2017 Author Share Posted June 23, 2017 16 minutes ago, Chase842 said: I think I may have found the source of the issue, although I have no clue how to solve it. I turned on advanced tweakables, and turned on fuel delivery overlay, and this is what I got. Hide contents https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1ilcl3AU3R0VDVxVjBBeWpHTjg The fuel never goes into the generator or reactor, let alone the engine. I've never used the fuel overlay before, and this may not be the source of the issue, but it sure does seem like a problem. Thanks for the picture, I can now replicate the problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chase842 Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 @FreeThinker Check out my edits to my previous post. It'll probably help and save you some time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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