The Mun is cursed!!

[NorthernDevo]

So I sent Jeb and Beasley (Scientist) on a flight to the Mun to gather scientific data. Everything went great until DOI when it all went pear-shaped. Honestly - I've done this flight a hundred times and it never goes wrong - except when it needs to go right. Then all Hell breaks loose. Turns out that no matter how enthusiastic Jeb is he can't plot an accurate descent. The spacecraft came down on the lip of a crater; Jeb thought it would be stable enough to land. (Full disclosure; so did the Human Mission Control, but let's blame the little green guy.) The lander tipped over; the science modules were crushed. Now I'm trying to figure out how to get Jeb back alive. Even if I do, he's lost his exploration bonus....

Dammit - I've explored every inch of the Mun in Sandbox but the moment I play a mission to that moon every possible fault happens. If I'm lucky enough to not smear Jeb across a few acres of regolith he spins off into outer space.

Edited January 22, 2017 by NorthernDevo

[Findthepin1]

See, this is why I never go to the Mun. 

[Rocket In My Pocket]

F5/F9 are your friends.

Alt-F5/Alt-F9 are your friends with benefits.

Unless you are playing ironman mode; in which case I can't help you, you need serious psychiatric care.

[Spacetraindriver]

Umm, you could of... scooted to the side before landing..?

[Mjarf]

^What he said, I always go into orbit around the Mun, that way I can do a more controlled and precises descent and avoid any major boo-boo's. Accidents still happen from time to time, space travel is pretty dangerous work.

[TheKosanianMethod]

I always quicksave before landing, because I had this happen once.

35 minutes ago, Mjarf said:

space travel is pretty dangerous work.

"What you do up there... it's dangerous."

[Whisky Tango Foxtrot]

"If you can't take a little bloody nose maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid."

[samstarman5]

In my current career I have the contract to land on the Mun.  I have been putting it off with other things but I am definitely hitting that point where I shouldn't put it off anymore. (Even though it has no deadline.)

[Cunjo Carl]

Sounds like it's time for a traditional KSP rescue mission! The EVA maneuvering jets can be used to go a very long distance on the Mun, so you won't need to worry about landing the rescue craft too close. That said, If your crew is above... I think it was 5300m altitude, you can also just barely put them into orbit on EVA thrusters alone! Once up they can't maneuver though so you'd need a Klaw to grab 'em . ++ Very Kerbal solution.

Edited January 22, 2017 by Cunjo Carl
doublechecked the height

[Ohm is Futile]

I dare say that maybe landing on the lip of a crater is not a huge success. If you want to save Jeb, you could quickload or land the same vehicle on the closest level-ish ground near his crash landing site.

[Death Engineering]

On 1/21/2017 at 10:03 PM, NorthernDevo said:

Dammit - I've explored every inch of the Mun in Sandbox but the moment I play a mission to that moon every possible fault happens. If I'm lucky enough to not smear Jeb across a few acres of regolith he spins off into outer space.

Yeah, well the Mun is a beautiful, wiggly world. Sometimes it is so easy to land you feel like you want to whip it, other times you want to clockout. The best thing to remember is that if you can't get no satisfaction, you can always use your freedom of choice and stay on planet earth.

 

[DerekL1963]

4 hours ago, Death Engineering said:

Yeah, well the Mun is a beautiful, wiggly world. Sometimes it is so easy to land you feel like you want to whip it, other times you want to clockout. The best thing to remember is that if you can't get no satisfaction, you can always use your freedom of choice and stay on planet earth.

 

ZOMG - you just blew my swelling itching brain.

[MinimalMinmus]

As my landers are kinda streamlined, they tend to flip too. I generally use 2 things, depending on the body.

Minmus: the gravity is low so I brute force it back up

Mun: I use DMagic radiometer as a catapult when I want to leave, and then full speed ahead.

[Benjamin Kerman]

What I did for my Ike lander, at least, is extend one of my antennas (They were on the side) and that proped me up enough for my engine to gimble upwards. 

[NorthernDevo]

11 hours ago, Benjamin Kerman said:

What I did for my Ike lander, at least, is extend one of my antennas (They were on the side) and that proped me up enough for my engine to gimble upwards. 

LOL Thanks for the responses folks; I got them back. First I sent Val to Minmus to pick up some science, built a 3-kerb lander with a whatever-it's-called control module, stuck another scientist in there and popped him off. THIS time it went great; perfectly to profile. I'm going to remember that antenna thing though; sounds like a really good idea

Cheers!

 

[Alpha 360]

I have done the antenna thing several times already. It is so routine for my landers so roll on their side. But I haven't needed a single recuse mission yet. Also, Mechjeb landing guidance does wonders! It is absolutely insane how accurate it is. You stop on the ground without any hovering or shutting down. Extremely efficient.

Edited January 24, 2017 by Alpha 360
"Kouston, we have several problems, but that doesn't matter so we want to continue on with the mission."

[suicidejunkie]

I've had plenty of tipped Mun landers because I didn't bother changing the design, so here's a list of rescue ideas:

1) Roll the vehicle along the ground and bounce the nose off a flagpole and then gun the engine while pointing roughly upwards.

2) KAS +screwdriver to move the landing gear to the front and lift the nose.  EVA and remove lopsided gear while in a suborbital tumble, then proceed to orbit.

3) Use precisely timed engine burns to rock the ship back and forth on the edge of a hill until the momentum gets you sufficiently vertical.

4) Instruct probe computer to hold radial orientation, then get out and stomp/kick/headbutt until rocket rights itself.

5) Disassemble rocket completely.  Reassemble from the bottom up in the proper orientation for launch.

6) Roll into a crater, then use the edge as a launch ramp.  Destroy engine in the attempt.  Wait for a rescue ship.   Then wait for a bigger rescue ship.  Then wait for 2.5m research.  Then wait for a rockomax sized rescue bus with wide stance.

[Mjarf]

I think most of us have done the "Oops, now I have to rescue the rescue team's rescue team too".

[Fearless Son]

Reminds me of the time I tried to land on the Mun's poles.  I had no idea how craggy they would be, or that it would be night and I forgot to add landing lights.  

The rescue mission went mercifully more smoothly.  

[DancesWithSquirrels]

If you have sufficient SAS, set to radial out and spin/parry/thrust until you're pointing ever so slightly up, and you can go full throttle for altitude. Folded (remaining) landing gear provide some nice bumps.

I once got an Orion nuclear pulse rocket that had fallen over to launch by ever so carefully (single pulses) going up the side of a crater and over, with full throttle as soon as I cleared the edge.

Edited January 25, 2017 by DancesWithSquirrels

[UnknowingTea]

This happens to me so much that I feel like one of the loading hints should be "Not Tipping Over..."

My current game is hard mode (no save/revert) with life support, so this sort of thing is catastrophic, especially when it happens on a manned mission in another planetary system. So here is what I do to prevent it:

1) Use Kerbal Engineer to see the slope of the place where you are going to land. If it is outside of the tolerance of your lander (you did extensive testing, right?), then abort the landing and power up the ascent engines. 
2) Bring along a rescue system. I use an ascent vehicle based on a command chair (since it is just for emergency/backup use anyway) that can descend to the surface, pick up the kerbal, and return her to the main vessel. The extra mass on an interplanetary mission is not too bad, considering that you can leave it there.
3) If I have to land in a place with a large slope, I send a probe first to scout out a good location.

Overall, I agree about Mun, though. It's not worth the risk after the first contracts and science grabs.

 

[NorthernDevo]

Hmm; even more great ideas, thanks! I haven't tried KAS, Engineer or anything else yet (just graphics mods); might be a good opportunity to test them out.

[Fearless Son]

19 hours ago, UnknowingTea said:

This happens to me so much that I feel like one of the loading hints should be "Not Tipping Over..."

Tipping over is a big one.  Compared to many other planets, I feel like I have to design Mun landers specifically, rather than for a more general non-atmospheric lander.  The Mun is made almost entirely of slopes, differing only in degree, and thanks to all the craters, craters within craters, and craters within craters within craters, etc. sometimes hard to predict what the surface will be like near the end of a descent burn.  A very wide base helps quite a bit though.  If you are feeling really mass-economical, you could design the wide landing base as detachable fuel tanks.  Draw fuel from them during the landing burn, then leave them behind on the Munar surface once they are empty to save mass for the return to Munar orbit, Apollo-style.  

[NorthernDevo]

3 hours ago, Fearless Son said:

Tipping over is a big one.  Compared to many other planets, I feel like I have to design Mun landers specifically, rather than for a more general non-atmospheric lander.  The Mun is made almost entirely of slopes, differing only in degree, and thanks to all the craters, craters within craters, and craters within craters within craters, etc. sometimes hard to predict what the surface will be like near the end of a descent burn.  A very wide base helps quite a bit though.  If you are feeling really mass-economical, you could design the wide landing base as detachable fuel tanks.  Draw fuel from them during the landing burn, then leave them behind on the Munar surface once they are empty to save mass for the return to Munar orbit, Apollo-style.  

Yeah; that's what I do - pretty basic lander/payload bay combo with a small engine underneath. 3 T400 tanks with landing gear on the outside. It generally works well though I've never been able to visit more than two biomes on one trip.

My Minmus ships are frankly hilarious: I just add gear to the deceleration stage - a T800/Swivel combo. I get to bounce around on the flats a few times before it runs out of fuel; leaving tons of resources for the non-flat biomes. They're about as Rube Goldberg as you can get but they work  I tried it on the Mun once...once. I don't recommend it.

 

 

[Just Jim]

Ahhh, the Mun is a harsh mistress...