Help needed. Wish to hook up gameport joystick

[LN400]

Here is the situation:

I have an old Logitech Wingman Interceptor joystick that has one of them gameport plugs. Unfortunately, gameport sockets went out with my last SB16 card and this laptop running Windows 10 (64) only has USB sockets. So, I am looking for the most reliable, and easiest (if not mutually exclusive) way of hooking this stick up to the laptop.

2 issues I can think of:

Physical. I'm assuming that there are adaptors for the job but would like to hear from first hand experience which adaptor to go for, if that is indeed the solution.

Drivers and software. The Interceptor was programmable and came with the necessary software. I have absolutely no idea if this software will run at all on a modern computer with a 64 bit OS. I do run DOSBox though for older games and there just might be a possibility that the Interceptor has DOS friendly software. Then the driver issue. I assume the drivers would have to be compatible with Windows 10 64 bit but I have no idea how backward compatible W10 is (knowing Win 8.1 was not backwards compatible at all most of the time).

 

Any insight on how to go about it? Again, the goal is to have a gameport joystick fully working with the programming software that came with it, in a DOS environment as well as a Win 10 environment running Win 95 programs (TIE Fighter 98 from Steam to be exact).

 

Secondary: I also have a Saitek X-52 pro which I also plan to use parallell to the Interceptor. The reason is the Saitek has a throttle unit with all the buttons I need for additional control of an Imperial star fighter. I seem to remember there is freeware that allows me to have multiple physical sticks report to Windows as one virtual one. The name of that software eludes me though so if it rings a bell to you, could you chime in please?

[Nuke]

get yourself an arduino based on the atmega32u4 mcu (or anything that can pose as a usb device). attach analog signals to analog pins, digital signals to digital pins, and then use one of the many arduino joystick libraries to emulate a usb hid joystick. you may also be able to just buy an adapter dongle if you dont want to get your hands dirty.

do note that a lot of 90s sticks really used a lot of game port hax in order to put out more axes/buttons than were supported by the gameport (which was 4 analog, 4 digital). weird tricks like using the digital signals as sort of a parallel bus (ms used a clock bit and 3 signal bits, and used some of the midi signals for force feedback, logitech uses two signals, where a transition on one line represents a 1 and a transition on the other represents a 0). in those cases you have to reverse engineer the protocols. so if you do go with an adapter be sure it supports your stick. if it has jumpers or dip switches for changing protocol, make sure there is a setting for your stick. but me id just gut the stick (or use circuit bending techniques) and hook the signals up directly to an arduino.

Edited January 29, 2017 by Nuke

[Camacha]

On 28/01/2017 at 4:33 PM, LN400 said:

Here is the situation:

I have an old Logitech Wingman Interceptor joystick that has one of them gameport plugs. Unfortunately, gameport sockets went out with my last SB16 card and this laptop running Windows 10 (64) only has USB sockets. So, I am looking for the most reliable, and easiest (if not mutually exclusive) way of hooking this stick up to the laptop.

What is your goal exactly? To save money? To have a neat project? To bring back memories?

If you are attempting to fix this issue for practical reasons (i.e. financial), you are probably much better off buying something (more) recent with actual USB support. The project is bound to cost you more time and money than you save. If that is not the point, sure. It sounds like a fun project that has the potential to teach you a lot about a number of things.

[LN400]

The goal is pretty straight forward. The old stick is the smoothest flight stick I have ever owned, putting all others to shame. I love the versatility of the X-52 but it is nowhere near as smooth on the axis.

[Camacha]

3 minutes ago, LN400 said:

The goal is pretty straight forward. The old stick is the smoothest flight stick I have ever owned, putting all others to shame. I love the versatility of the X-52 but it is nowhere near as smooth on the axis.

It looks like Ebay sells adapters from 10 dollars up. I doubt there is going to be a huge market for them nowadays, and people with hands-on experience will be scarce. At 10 dollars, you could see what happens. There do seem to be some videos on the subject on Youtube.

 

[legoclone09]

Yeah, an adapter is your best bet. This one has Amazon Prime. https://www.amazon.com/game-Adapter-Rockfire-RM-203-gameport/dp/B004HAX7OU, but eBay also has cheap ones.

Edited January 29, 2017 by legoclone09

[LN400]

Looking at various adapters including the Rockfire linked above. There seems to be something odd about Logitech's Wingman series as some adapters explicitly state they do not work with that single one line of sticks, and there are some reviews of the Rockfire that say the same about that adapter while others say, in vague terms, they do work. Same thing about the http://www.mayflash.com/Products/PCUSB/PC017.html This will take some serious looking into.

Edited January 29, 2017 by LN400

[StrandedonEarth]

I had that joystick and I agree, it was a great stick. Good Luck!

[Nuke]

On 1/29/2017 at 11:08 AM, Camacha said:

What is your goal exactly? To save money? To have a neat project? To bring back memories?

If you are attempting to fix this issue for practical reasons (i.e. financial), you are probably much better off buying something (more) recent with actual USB support. The project is bound to cost you more time and money than you save. If that is not the point, sure. It sounds like a fun project that has the potential to teach you a lot about a number of things.

i have to agree here. from what i remember of the wingman line, you are probibly better off getting something new. i tried to restore a wingman i found in a dumpster, but half the buttons and one of the pots were shot. i returned it from whence it came (minus the good pots, pots with 60 degree rotation are notoriously hard to source). same thing with an old ms stick, was unable to haxxor the data stream (i had an obscure one that didnt use the same protocols for some reason). those ms sticks are nice because they use an optical sensor for its 3 axis stick, really stable and good life which you just dont get with pots, many of those still work great provided you can get them working, great sticks for a nostalgia rig.

Edited January 30, 2017 by Nuke

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

I'm finding different products by that name... so, how many axis and buttons are we talking? Some joysticks did tricky things to get many buttons and axis working, so that's why a simple adapter might not do the trick.

[LN400]

26 minutes ago, Rosco P. Coltrane said:

I'm finding different products by that name... so, how many axis and buttons are we talking? Some joysticks did tricky things to get many buttons and axis working, so that's why a simple adapter might not do the trick.

This one https://www.amazon.com/Logitech-WingMan-Interceptor-9-Button-Joystick/dp/B00000JDFK

9 buttons + 3 8-way hats and 3 axis.

 

As for a new stick, that will be the day I am stinking rich, after spending dosh on a full x-52 pro + pedals setup, and only if the new stick proves to be as smooth as the Interceptor. As for working, I would be very surprised if it was broken as it worked perfectly before I put it on the shelf after getting a new pc back then. Would expect dusting it off would be sufficient.

[LN400]

So, quick update.

The reason the Wingman series is so tricky appears to be Logitech used their own gameport interface, Logitech ADI. This is something I know nothing about right now so reading is on the schedule. 

Another thing is, I can't seem to find anywhere the schematics for the Interceptor. That and me not knowing the details of that ADI means I can't figure out yet how one could possibly create an adapter for this stick.

2 things then I would need to know.

Now, there is one idea that popped up but it relies on the 2 above points being sussed out. I have an Arduino Uno laying around and I am wondering now if I could use that somehow to set up a virtual joystick in Windows 10 using vjoy (IIRC). Of course, I would need to either write the software or get it somehow. That's a lot of somehows.

[Nuke]

linux has a good adi implementation, a quick google finds the source code:

https://github.com/spotify/linux/blob/master/drivers/input/joystick/adi.c

it looks complicated but its really the same thing i discribed above. two signals, a transition on either represents a clock. one is the zero line and the other is a one line, so which ever one the signal is on represents the value for the bit. it has the added bonus that unlike the 3-bit+clock ms protocol it works with y cables, since it only uses the 2 digital signals instead of all 4, so you can dual wield. you have to trigger the read event and i believe you use the midi out line (the only output signal on the whole port) to do that. this is pin 12, but most schematics for joystick wiring call it gnd (its just low by default unless a midi driver raises it). logitech uses it as a trigger signal to tell the joystick to start clocking out a data packet one bit at a time. after that its all up to the isr on the pc side to catch the interrupts, and every time that happens compare the values on the wires with the ones stored from the last read, figure out which one changed and store a 1 or 0 accordingly, shift and repeat until you have received the full packet. this give the driver everything it needs to update the joystick data on the pc side.

Edited January 31, 2017 by Nuke