Speeding Mullet

totm
Shuttle Challenge v4 - The 1.2.x STS thread [Stock and Mod Friendly] [NEW MISSION 10.02.17]

284 posts in this topic

SHUTTLE CHALLENGE v4 - THE 1.2.X STS THREAD

x2pdfyP.png

Incredible artwork by @Pine from the Screenshots Re-imagined thread

 

This heritage challenge is a revised and updated version of my STS Challenge @FCISuperGuy's STS challenge, which was in turn derived from @inigma's original STS challenge

 

The series of challenges below represent a sliding scale of difficulty ranging from relatively simple to highly complex.  More incredible missions to exciting destinations will be added as the challenge continues, but I've had increasing calls for the challenge to re-open, so in the meantime I've re-worked a lot of the old ones to make them relevant for 1.2.x, and tweaked a few things to give you a taste of things to come!

UPDATES
****I'm looking for someone to do a decent job with planetary badges so if that's you please PM me!****

****I'm looking for a co- admin for when RL calls and I can't check in as regularly as I'd like.  If you've completed at least STS-1 through to STS-8 and would like to help out, please PM me!****

****NEW MISSION ADDED 10.02.17****

****Rule change to allow for shuttles with no cargo competing for STS-1A****

 

RULES - PLEASE READ THESE BEFORE ATTEMPTING THE CHALLENGES

 

Official definition of a shuttle for this challenge:

A "reusable" winged Orbiter which carries Kerbals (and cargo for any mission beyond STS-1a) to orbit and back and is capable of a horizontal landing. It's advisable to have OMS engine(s) for trajectory changes as well as an RCS system for maneuvering.  The Orbiter must be lifted into space by a Launch System that decouples or un-docks once expended, allowing the Orbiter to land entirely under it's own power.

 

1. You must declare any and all mods used so I can place you into the relevant category / award the relevant badge.

2. You may not use autopilot mods (except "MechJeb" and "Pilot Assistant") when flying the shuttle

3. All atmosphere-altering mods (except FAR) are disallowed

4. You may not cheat in any way, whether it be by using plugins like HyperEdit or by using the Debug Menu for infinite fuel/RCS (you may, however, use the Debug Menu for part clipping).

5. You are required to use your own shuttle when completing any of the missions below (Astronaut badge excluded)

6.   All missions require either an album showing each stage of the flight, or a video showing all stages of the flight.

7. Once you have completed a mission, please post your proof in this thread for my review.

8.  SSTO's are not eligable for entry to the challenge

9.  Missions must be completed in the logical order unless you are certified from either STS v1, v2, or v3 challenges to the relevant level

 

                                                                                                                                                                                                            

MISSIONS

                                                                                                                                                                                                            

STS-1a:  Getting the Basics Right

FgaLkNk.png

This is the simplest mission - all you need to do is build a space shuttle, fly it, and land it.

Badges Available

Rvs3vgQ.jpg7RNmgnC.jpg

STS Pilot - Rank 1

Build a shuttle complying to the above space shuttle definition and fly it to orbit, then de-orbit and land wherever you like!

sE1QW9Q.jpg8joD5Di.jpg

STS Commander - Rank 1

Build a shuttle complying to the above space shuttle definition and fly it to orbit, then de-orbit and land. Land either at the KSC, the island airfield just off of the KSC, or at any Kerbal Konstructs airport

 

                                                                                                                                                                                                            

STS-1b:  Bonus Fuel Pod Mission (Do you even lift?)

z75u1bv.png

Mullet Dyne has contracted you to take their brand new 40t fuel pod up to the highest possible Kerbin orbit. Since it requires special on-orbit activation procedures, unmanned expendable launch vehicles are out of the question; it's up to you to take this behemoth to orbit and then return to land. Not only that, but they require a very precise orbit: You must adhere to the tolerances (Maximum difference between periapsis and apoapsis below). Can you do it?

Tolerances:

70-1999km - 100m

2000-4999km - 500m

4000-5999km - 1km

6000-8000km - 10km

8000km+ - 50km

Mullet Dyne Fuel Pod Available Here
 

STOCK ALTITUDE LEADER-BOARD (Top 5 ONLY)

1.  @Naito - Shuttle Resolution - 802.44km
2.  @Martian Emigrant - Shuttle ABC - 150.08km
3.  @Shadow dream - Shuttle Buran Kai - 130.07km
4.  @53miner53 - Shuttle Columbia - 114.96km
5.
 

MODDED ALTITUDE LEADER-BOARD (Top 5 ONLY)

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.

If you have successfully taken the Fuel Pod to orbit (70+km), you get the special Flight Director badge, the ultimate display of piloting and engineering prowess and skill.

et2p8E4.jpgsdeeGOl.jpg

                                                                                                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                                                                                            

STS-2a:  Can You Hear Me?

This mission is slightly harder - your goal is to design and deploy two or more comsats to geostationary orbits from your Shuttle and to return to Kerbin. Additional goals are required for higher-ranking badges.

uHcns7q.png

 

Badges Available

EynVoXa.jpg  uwYl06G.jpg

STS Pilot - Rank 2

Reach an orbit of 200+km and deploy two comsats without spin stabilization to geostationary orbits. De-orbit and land anywhere you want.

WUvoQpP.jpgP83gnaC.jpg

STS Commander - Rank 2

Reach an orbit of 350+km and deploy three or more comsats with spin stabilization to equidistant geostationary orbits. De-orbit and land at either at the KSC, the Island Airfield just off of KSC, or at any Kerbal Konstructs airport.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            

STS-2b:  Bonus Ore Pod Mission (Do You Even Land?)

z75u1bv.png

Mullet Dyne has contracted you to recover their 40t fuel pod from where you left it, after contaminates were discovered in the fuel.  Can you land the thing!?

 

If you have successfully landed the 40t fuel pod (from where you left it), you get the special Flight Director - Rank 2 badge, the ultimate display of piloting and engineering prowess and skill.

YbUvgWK.jpgVdrbae7.jpg

                                                                                                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                                                                                            

STS-3:  Can You See Me?

s4soGXx.png

Your mission here involves some design and orbital construction - you are to launch a Space Telescope into orbit and deploy it. This will require assembly with the 2 MMUs you will design, as the solar panels need to be attached on-orbit with Kerbals.

 

Badges Available

kNqUcoq.jpgJqRGJ60.jpg

STS Pilot - Rank 3

Launch the space telescope to an orbit of your choice and deploy and assemble it; afterwards, deorbit and land. Land anywhere you want.

neSFTQk.jpgMvCxjCK.jpg

STS Commander - Rank 3

Launch the space telescope to a 550+km circular orbit inclined at 25-30 degrees and assemble it. After deployment, land at either at the KSC, the Island Airfield just off of KSC, or at any Kerbal Konstructs airport.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            

STS-4/4R:  Can You Rescue Me?

ZjFbDPw.png

 

This'll be the most daring mission so far - first, you must launch a single shuttle to orbit, then send another shuttle to rescue it. See this article for technical details of the IRL proposed STS-107 rescue.

 

Badges Available

STS Pilot - Rank 4

YaW2NZ8.jpgelepBXe.jpg

Launch your first space shuttle into a 200+km orbit with a minimum of 4 crew, then send up your second shuttle to rendezvous with it and rescue its crew before coming in to land anywhere you wish.

STS Commander - Rank 4

yCCnUU7.jpg rohCksW.jpg

Launch your first space shuttle into an 350+km orbit with 6 crew at an inclination of 25-30 degrees, then send your second shuttle to rendezvous with it and rescue its crew. Land at either at the KSC, the Island Airfield just off of KSC, or at any Kerbal Konstructs airport.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            

STS-5-8:  Can You Build Me?

qvHIKJF.png

Your mission here is to build a 4 module space station with your space shuttle. Your space station must have:

A service module with RCS, engines, and reaction wheels
A habitation module
2 scientific modules

Badges Avaliable

STS Pilot - Rank 5

oH6zpMy.jpg 2Iv46R7.jpg

Assemble your space station above 150km. After each mission, you may land anywhere you want.

STS Commander - Rank 5

gDmEbjw.jpg XTFmgzR.jpg

Assemble your space station above 300km. After each mission, land at either at the KSC, the Island Airfield just off of KSC, or at any Kerbal Konstructs airport.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            

STS-9:  Can You Land Me???

knLo23p.png


This mission is significantly more difficult than those before it.  You must develop your own unique sub-assembly and fly a daring mission in order to capture a space potato and return it to Kerbin for study.  This will test the balance and re-entry capability of your shuttle to the limits and is not for the feint of heart!  Also It's not mandatory for a kerbal to ride the asteroid in on top of the shuttle, but serious respect if you manage it.  Example mission here if you need inspiration.

Badges Avaliable

STS Pilot - Rank 6

cpvdNsy.jpgOUOGEmT.jpg

Launch your shuttle and capture an asteroid, then de-orbit and land wherever you like!

STS Commander - Rank 6

pwHJNsR.jpge7ewKy9.jpg

Launch your shuttle and capture an asteroid, then de-orbit and land. Land either at the KSC, the island airfield just off of the KSC, or at any Kerbal Konstructs airport

STOCK ASTEROID WEIGHT LEADER-BOARD (Top 5 ONLY)

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.

MODDED ASTEROID WEIGHT LEADERBOARD (Top 5 ONLY)

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            

YOU MUST HAVE COMPLETED THE ORIGINAL KERBIN MISSIONS IN ORDER TO PROGRESS TO THE MUN CHALLENGES
                                                                                                                                                                                                              

MUN STS-1:  Do I have Mun-quakes?

MsLnE4m.png

@michal.don on the Mun and having a whale of a time!

Landing on an airless body was never going to be easy in a shuttle, but your task is to not only successfully land on the Mun, but to deploy a small research facility of your choice to study the Mun.  Oh yes you need to get back too!

Badges Avaliable

Mun STS Pilot - Rank 1

  qAhq0Vb.jpg yfwYRmH.jpg

Land your shuttle anywhere on the Mun and deploy a small un-manned research facility (which you will design) on the surface and then return home, capturing however you like and landing where you want.

Mun STS Commander - Rank 1

 UOxFfeM.jpgDqZcJcY.jpg

Land your shuttle on the Mun and deploy a manned research facility (which you will design) on the surface and then return home, perform an aero-capture and land at either at the KSC, the Island Airfield just off of KSC, or at any Kerbal Konstructs airport.

                                                                                                                                                                                                             

YOU MUST HAVE COMPLETED THE ORIGINAL KERBIN MISSIONS IN ORDER TO PROGRESS TO THE DUNA CHALLENGES
                                                                                                                                                                                                              

DUNA STS-1:  Can You Visit Me?

c0ODtiF.png  

This mission is significantly more challenging than those before it and may require extensive shuttle modifications, or even a new shuttle design for some.  You must develop your own unique sub-assembly and fly an epic interplanetary mission to Duna in order to deploy a small orbital outpost.  This will test the range, aero-capture, and re-entry capability of your shuttle to the limits and is not for the feint of heart!  The orbital outpost must have: 

Room for 4 or more kerbals,
Electricity generation and storage
Antenna for communication
Probe core with SAS

NOTE:  You may launch 1 support package for your shuttle using a traditional rocket or shuttle launch for this mission.

Badges Avaliable

Duna STS Pilot - Rank 1

 AROX7Rw.jpg YjAahH1.jpg

Launch your shuttle to Duna, capture how ever you like, deploy an orbital outpost at your chosen altitude, and return home, capturing however you like and landing where you want.

Duna STS Commander - Rank 1

yS7ukxd.jpg7aLlFUK.jpg

Launch your shuttle to Duna, aero-brake/capture at Duna, deploy an orbital outpost below 70km, and return home, aero-brake/capture at Kerbin,  land at either at the KSC, the Island Airfield just off of KSC, or at any Kerbal Konstructs airport.

                                                                                                                                                                                                             
 

DUNA STS-2:  Can You Land on me?

pTzl4q6.png   

This mission requires not only a Shuttle capable of getting to Duna, but also one capable of landing on the red planet and successfully returning to Kerbin.  You may require extensive shuttle modifications, or even a new shuttle design for this mission.

NOTE:  You may launch 1 support package for your shuttle using a traditional rocket or shuttle launch for this mission, and feel free to use the mission to add another module to your outpost (this is not a requirement for the challenge)

Badges Avaliable

Duna STS Pilot - Rank 2

xMugxJv.jpg tQsSdQ2.jpg

Launch your shuttle to Duna, capture how ever you like and visit your orbital outpost from STS-10 before or after your Duna landing.  Return home, capturing however you like and landing where you want.

Duna STS Commander - Rank 2

rNTkaFS.jpgxDeECKN.jpg

Launch your shuttle to Duna.  Aero-brake/capture at Duna and visit your orbital outpost from STS-10 in Low Duna Orbit before or after your Duna landing.  Return home, aero-brake/capture at Kerbin,  land at either at the KSC, the Island Airfield just off of KSC, or at any Kerbal Konstructs airport.

                                                                                                                                                                                                             

YOU MUST HAVE COMPLETED THE ORIGINAL KERBIN MISSIONS IN ORDER TO PROGRESS TO THE JOOL CHALLENGES
                                                                                                                                                                                                              

JOOL STS-1:  Can You Breathe here?

   n93utoF.png

This mission is hideously challenging and will no doubt require extensive shuttle modifications, or even a totally new shuttle design.  You must develop your own unique sub-assemblies and fly an epic interplanetary mission to Laythe in order to deploy a small ground outpost capable of refining Ore (for Pilot level) with the addition of an atmospheric exploration aircraft (for Commander level).  This mission is designed to test your shuttle in the extreme, and also your payload construction and deployment methods.  

The ground outpost must have: 

Ore refinery and fuel storage with docking port
Room for 4 or more kerbals

The Atmospheric Exploration Aircraft must have:

Room for 1 or more kerbals
Docking port

NOTE:  You may launch 1 support package for your shuttle using a traditional rocket or shuttle launch for this mission.

Badges Avaliable

Jool STS Pilot - Rank 1

otZxt1U.jpg 3Z4LfMK.jpg

Launch your shuttle to Laythe, and land on Laythe before deploying an outpost capable of refining Ore.  Return home, capturing however you like and landing where you want.

Jool STS Commander - Rank 1

U3K2llp.jpg  dGfDgBr.jpg

Launch your shuttle to Laythe, and land on Laythe before deploying an outpost capable of refining Ore and before or after deploying an atmospheric exploration aircraft.  Return home, capturing however you like and landing where you want.

 

                                                                                                                                                                                                            

 
                                                                                                                                                                                                            

HONORARY BADGES

JV0zWd1.jpg

STS Engineer Award

Given by an STS Architect for developing a sub-assembly that ends up being a core part of this challenge, or for assisting heavily in the development of a Shuttle. If you have a sub-assembly you'd like to be reviewed, please post a detailed analysis and example mission report in the challenge thread.

                                                   

fagZP7S.jpg

Astronaut Badge

This badge is given to anyone who has completed any of the above missions with a shuttle built by another person.

                                                   

km1jmmp.jpg

Skunkworks Badge

This badge is given to people who have submitted especially unique and outstanding designs which abide by the given definition of a space shuttle. Skunkworks badge holders are still eligible for the above mission badges. The full list of Skunkworks badge holders is as follows:

                                                   

Architect Badge

UF2EaXT.jpg

The full list of Architect badge holders is as follows:

Speeding Mullet -  Version 3 Challenge Creator, temporary admin of Version 2 Challenge

@inigma - Original Challenge Creator/Manager, Builder of highly-capable STS Space Shuttle and numerous STS-related subassemblies

@FCISuperGuy - Version 2 Challenge Creator/Manager, builder of a highly capable shuttle, and excellent giver of advice

@xoknight - Creator and maintainer of the venerable Hubble Space Telescope across 3 versions, requiring consistent updates

To receive the Architect Badge is a rare honor.  To be awarded at my discretion, or through nomination of FCISuperGuy or Inigma for my consideration, and given for acts of invaluable contribution to the challenge above and beyond the call of duty.

                                                                                                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                                                                                            

9 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

good to see i back i will "mayby" try this

edit: THIS CHALLENGE IS AWSOME

Edited by rkarmark
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Meet Columbia, my space shuttle. 

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0eMT8zRijNmeU50XzkxNEVzNms (Pictures)

These pictures show the first mission documented for this challenge. It has had a few other missions and some variations and payloads built for it though. 

I am not good at landing it yet. I was panicking about running out of runway (and forgetting the parachutes) and decided it would be a good idea to nose down hard. It broke the runway and the left wing, which made it crash. Then I went to space center, the game glitched, and apparently it had saved during the initial impact and the shuttle was sitting untouched on a broken section of runway. I could try again if necessary, but I think the shuttle design works well, I'm just a terrible pilot atm. 

My space shuttle is a bit larger than usual shuttles I think. It has a mk-3 passenger module, 4 mk-3 monoprop tanks, a mk-3 rocket fuel tank, and 2 CRG-100 cargo bays. This is not a full parts list by the way.

Edit: forgot mod list.

Used for this mission:

Kerbal Engineer Redux

Trajectories

Will be used for later missions:

Kerbal Alarm Clock

Probably will not use later

KAS/KIS

kOS

Edited by 53miner53
new link
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

https://kerbalx.com/AeroGav/Baby-Shuttle

20170209130229_1_zpsx5rsavdb.jpg

20170209130412_1_zpsdxivbibo.jpg

For my entry,  I tried to stick reasonably close to the real shuttle for the Orbiter's planform,  otherwise it would just end up being another one of my spaceplanes - some of which cast off their airbreathers at flameout height for extra delta v,  so could technically qualify (especially if i subbed SRBs for jet engines).

There is however, no external tank, the off-axis thrust and fuel mass was just too much of a headache.Unfortunately this means half the vehicle is taken up with fuel tanks, so it's unable to complete challenges involving bulkier payloads.

It uses 3 kickbacks to get us above 10km and mach 2.  I filled the attach nodes of the mk3 engine mount with three terriers and a poodle, which are relatively light and give good vacuum ISP.   

I used the configurable containers mod to swap the contents of the wings and strakes from LF (which we have no use for) to monoprop.  You don't actually have to have this mod installed in order to fly my ship, however if you go into SPH with a vanilla install you'll get the option to fill them with LF as well as monoprop, which is not what the maker intended !

Thanks to this, we have loads of fuel for our OMS system.   Initially,  I was just going to use the RCS thrusters and had offset the Terrier main engines to look like OMS pods.   Later,  I added 3 puffs so we can make better use of it during launch.    Press 1 to toggle OMS Assist.

My own spaceplanes normally have much larger wings and use canards.   Shuttle clones tend to have both CoM and CoL very far back,  and pitch control is from the rear, with elevons very close to the CoM.  As a result keeping the nose up requires huge downforce from the elevons, leading to poor lift:drag ratio and high landing speeds.

I wanted to avoid using hidden or clipped wings, so this is what i did to try get the most out of what i had -

  • Light engines keep the CoM further forward, increasing distance between elevons and CoM, so less downforce needed to control pitch.  This also means CoM is almost halfway between the two fuel tanks and near the middle of the cargo bay, so CoM shifts during the mission are kept to a minimum.
  • The stakes are angled up, to provide the nose up trim for cruising/gliding flight.  Elevons only need to make downforce to command large AoA, eg. during landing flare.
  • main wings are angled with incidence too to improve lift/drag.
  • cones on back of engines to reduce drag.  By rotating and offsetting, i've managed to give these drag reducing cones the appearance of OMS pods!

I think the flying characteristics are quite pleasant for a shuttle clone, but i still find it tricky to launch.  You need to be proficient at rocket gravity turns (i am not!) as well as a good airplane pilot, able to maintain an AoA/pitch angle accurately when the boosters fall off.   Perhaps a brute force, vector powered shuttle could ignore aerodynamics on the way up and reduce the problem merely to one of the gravity turn.    My shuttle goes from a TWR of 2.7 to 0.8 when the boosters fall off,  so you have to fly it like an aeroplane at this point.

TL:DR -

3 comsats launched to geostationary from 400km orbit.

mods - Configurable containers used to put monoprop in the wings Launch vid  .

Spoiler

 

.

..

 

Deploying the sats (very unexciting vid).

Spoiler

 

.

..

 


Landing vid (awful re-entry, but i managed to salvage it.  Doesn't glide as well as my usual designs and the first two flights ended up ditching a mile offshore)

Spoiler

 

.

.

 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Work on the Block II version of the Baby Shuttle has started.

This one's using a centreline NERV - to keep the weight down, we're using 5 sparks on the other nodes.  This only gives us 1/3 of the thrust of the original, so lift:drag really needs to improve.  Also, I'd like more lift so it rises faster and doesn't come within  a few degrees of melting on launch/re-entry.

Furthermore,  the real space shuttle has the trailing edge of it's wing meeting the rear fuselage.   The mk1 Baby Shuttle has an unsightly rear overhang i'd like to eliminate, but when i do that,  CoL ends up crazy far back, even though i've added extra stakes. 

20170209165522_1_zpswclnohhj.jpg

Note -  the body flap has now been implemented.  Appearance-wise, it's not too bad, makes a nice ogival planform (like on Concord) that's arguably no further from the real life shuttle than the overly lawn dart-ish/Battlestar Galactica Viper appearance you get with just 1 wing and strake mounted this far back.

Let's try more strakes...

20170209205956_1_zpscobqahad.jpg

This was an accident, but that silhouette :blush::cool:  is damn sexy.    Looks like a 5th gen fighter.

Flip that extra strake 180 degrees, suddenly we have  a Saab Draken..

20170209210259_1_zpsj8ckb2nq.jpg

If I toe these in however,  we just end up with something more like the first pic, with the leading edge extension coming slightly further forward.  Of course, a majority of this strake is now clipping inside the cockpit :sealed:

20170209213550_1_zpsged7g8hb.jpg

Decisions , decisions.      The other way to get more wing area is just to panel in the plane's belly to join the left and right wings together, like @Speeding Mullet has done

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My first attempt at the fuel tank to orbit mission: total disaster, broke the launch pad and the tracking station, needs more thrust.

 

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0eMT8zRijNmZVlkakQ2RnFKZFE

Edit:

Second attempt: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0eMT8zRijNmTHpLcjFFd1ZJOUE

I got it to orbit, apoapsis~116,900, periapsis ~116950, re-entered and undershot the runway, landed in the hills to the west of the KSC, and rolled all the way there to park next to R&D. 

 

Edited by 53miner53
Pics

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm glad to see that this challenge is back. I'll be beginning a series of entries as soon as I've configured the mod pack I'm going to use.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whooo this challenge is back! I might throw a couple of entries in here in the near future. Looking great!

Fire

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just attempted to load up the game without the Squad folder. This is probably a sign that I'm too tired to design a space shuttle.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does the shuttle require the ability to transport cargo in order to qualify for STS-1a? The shuttle I designed has a cargo variant and a crew variant, but it was the crew variant that I've just flown a mission for. Obviously I'll be upscaling my designs as I progress through the STS challenges - one of the mods I'm using is Mark IV spaceplanes, which should be a testiment to the scale of some of my plans - but I figured I'd start small. Of course, if it doesn't count as a shuttle with crew and no cargo, I'll just do another launch for that first challenge. Here's the shuttle I'm talking about, for reference:

VeJENKO.jpg

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/9/2017 at 0:20 PM, 53miner53 said:

Meet Columbia, my space shuttle.

Woah!  First to the plate and a totally crazy shuttle, I like it!  Good effort getting the lumbering giant that is the Columbia to space, and managing to re-enter it to.  Pity about the runway not being able to take the weight, but I'm satisfied that the runway having a bit of a strop shouldn't get in the way of awarding you the badge.  Also none of your current mods listed put you in the modded category as they are all quality of life rather than parts etc.   sE1QW9Q.jpg

On 2/8/2017 at 8:22 PM, rkarmark said:

good to see i back i will "mayby" try this

You should, it's an awesome set of challenges :).  In a way it gives you the ability to actually manage a space program!

 

17 hours ago, AeroGav said:

For my entry,  I tried to stick reasonably close to the real shuttle for the Orbiter's planform,  otherwise it would just end up being another one of my spaceplanes

Nice! Welcome to the challenge!  You'll have to remind me whether you completed STS-1A from another challenge.  It doesn't really matter as I'm willing to certify STS-1A and STS-2A in the same mission, but if you haven't done these set of challenges before just a reminder that they need to be completed in order from here on in :)

Your shuttle looks very stable, particularly in it's atmospheric flying bits, where it glides really nicely and lands at such a low speed parachutes aren't really needed!  Your use of configurable containers puts you in the modded category, but that's no worries, all are equal here, so take your badge and wear it with pride my friend!   8joD5Di.jpg  - for STS 1A, and for STS-2A  P83gnaC.jpg

 

8 hours ago, AeroGav said:

Work on the Block II version of the Baby Shuttle has started.

Iterations iterations iterations!  Definitely recommended as you go through the challenges.  Some may even require totally different shuttles, or savage changes to existing designs, which is all fine by the way!  I went for LV-Ns when I started to push the shuttle further out, and made heaps of other changes.  Quite a few are detailed in this thread which gives some really useful tops on making shuttles work for you.

 

8 hours ago, AeroGav said:

Note -  the body flap has now been implemented.

Definitely worth it!  Body flap contributed so much do my design, and it looks great aesthetically as you mentioned!

 

8 hours ago, AeroGav said:

 The other way to get more wing area is just to panel in the plane's belly to join the left and right wings together, like @Speeding Mullet has done

Sneaky tip - I used 2 layers of wings to get the wing profile looking aesthetically right, as well as adding badly needed control/lift/fuel.

 

6 hours ago, 53miner53 said:

My first attempt at the fuel tank to orbit mission: total disaster, broke the launch pad and the tracking station, needs more thrust.

Haha, oh, well, that didn't go as planned!  Let me know when you've got the pictures up and I will review for you!

 

5 hours ago, eloquentJane said:

I'm glad to see that this challenge is back. I'll be beginning a series of entries as soon as I've configured the mod pack I'm going to use.

Thanks @eloquentJane, it's good to be back with the refreshed challenge.  More missions are imminent so stay tuned :)

 

5 hours ago, Firemetal said:

Whooo this challenge is back! I might throw a couple of entries in here in the near future. Looking great!

Good to see you kicking around the thread @Firemetal, can't wait to see what you come up with this time!

 

2 hours ago, eloquentJane said:

Does the shuttle require the ability to transport cargo in order to qualify for STS-1a?

To be honest I was looking at the "definition of the shuttle" for the purposes of the challenge.  At the moment it says that its required to carry Kerbals and Cargo.  I might remove the cargo bit (I don't think we should be introducing drone shuttles, that's way to low risk) as it will encourage more designs and "mini-shuttles" without taking away from the challenge.  I'm sure we will all agree that every other challenge in this thread requires a cargo bay, so it's sort of a given that you'd have one!

With that in mind post the gallery and I'll adjudicate :).  Interested to see your MkIV shuttle, there was a couple of truly monster shuttles using that platform in the v3 challenge.  Amazing stuff!

 

It's good to be back :)

SM

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Speeding Mullet said:

but if you haven't done these set of challenges before just a reminder that they need to be completed in order from here on in

Will try, but honestly it took about 10 hours to edit and upload the footage of the first mission and most of the others don't interest me so much, and look very time consuming.  Building an ISS - eek !

However,  I am stoked by the block 2 shuttle concept, and am keen to try the Duna missions with it, starting with the one to deliver a cargo to orbit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Speeding Mullet said:

To be honest I was looking at the "definition of the shuttle" for the purposes of the challenge.  At the moment it says that its required to carry Kerbals and Cargo.  I might remove the cargo bit (I don't think we should be introducing drone shuttles, that's way to low risk) as it will encourage more designs and "mini-shuttles" without taking away from the challenge.  I'm sure we will all agree that every other challenge in this thread requires a cargo bay, so it's sort of a given that you'd have one!

With that in mind post the gallery and I'll adjudicate :).  Interested to see your MkIV shuttle, there was a couple of truly monster shuttles using that platform in the v3 challenge.

I'm glad to know that my first shuttle will be fine for the first challenge. It does actually have a cargo variant, which involves replacing the crew section with a cargo bay from Modular Rocket Systems (which are almost identical in size, so it works out quite well).

As for the Mark IV shuttles, I think it's likely that I'll design several variants. It will depend of course on what I'll actually need them for, but some of the later challenges look likely to need a rather large shuttle that's also very specialized.

There's another thing I'd like to ask, whilst I'm thinking of it. For the rescuing challenge, do both shuttles have to be identical, or could different ones be used?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Update on block 2 - the Orbiter is looking quite pretty and it flies nice.  Goes where it's pointed,  and is actually able to take off from Kerbin's runway and climb to 9km on it's own engines - that is to say, the incredible thrust of 5 sparks and a Nerv at sea level.

The problem I'm having is with the quad SRB stack.     As we pass mach 2 below 10km,  the orbiter makes too much lift even with the nose pointing at prograde (thanks to the built in incidence).   As a result it inexorably pitches up to a 50 degree climb by the time the boosters burn out, leading to a really goofy flight profile (AP of 100km at 700 m/s) and no doubt, very high gravity losses.

I've tried launching at a shallower angle off the pad, but that just gets us going faster in the lower atmosphere = more lift = sharper pitch up and we still end up lobbing to 100km.

I've tried turning SRB thrust down a bit,  but that wastes a whole bunch of delta V on gravity loss.  Lowering my TWR so that it barely climbs off the bad makes the mach 2 pitch up is less severe, but it still balloon to 45km.

Here's the changes I could make, in increasing order of controversy - 

  • Liquid Fuel Boosters.    Reliants have the best cost to thrust ratio of any liquid engine.    I'll be able to throttle back when the wings start to bite and keep to a relatively sane trajectory.  There is precedent for this, Block II of the Space Launch System upgrades the shuttle derived SRBs for Advanced Liquid Fuelled Boosters.   The cost increase vs kickbacks will be minimal, especially if I use
  • Horizontal Takeoff.   This will reduce the amount of boosters required by half, since a TWR of just 0.6 is enough to make an airplane climb and accelerate like a dingbat.
  • Boosters for my Boosters. If cost per flight economics are truly a consideration,  it might be worth having a first stage of booster that's jettisoned at a low enough altitude to be recovered via parachute before the orbiter gets out of physics range.   Of course, this is departing somewhat from a vertical launched shuttle stack. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, AeroGav said:

Update on block 2 - the Orbiter is looking quite pretty and it flies nice.  Goes where it's pointed,  and is actually able to take off from Kerbin's runway and climb to 9km on it's own engines - that is to say, the incredible thrust of 5 sparks and a Nerv at sea level.

The problem I'm having is with the quad SRB stack.     As we pass mach 2 below 10km,  the orbiter makes too much lift even with the nose pointing at prograde (thanks to the built in incidence).   As a result it inexorably pitches up to a 50 degree climb by the time the boosters burn out, leading to a really goofy flight profile (AP of 100km at 700 m/s) and no doubt, very high gravity losses.

I've tried launching at a shallower angle off the pad, but that just gets us going faster in the lower atmosphere = more lift = sharper pitch up and we still end up lobbing to 100km.

I've tried turning SRB thrust down a bit,  but that wastes a whole bunch of delta V on gravity loss.  Lowering my TWR so that it barely climbs off the bad makes the mach 2 pitch up is less severe, but it still balloon to 45km.

Here's the changes I could make, in increasing order of controversy - 

  • Liquid Fuel Boosters.    Reliants have the best cost to thrust ratio of any liquid engine.    I'll be able to throttle back when the wings start to bite and keep to a relatively sane trajectory.  There is precedent for this, Block II of the Space Launch System upgrades the shuttle derived SRBs for Advanced Liquid Fuelled Boosters.   The cost increase vs kickbacks will be minimal, especially if I use
  • Horizontal Takeoff.   This will reduce the amount of boosters required by half, since a TWR of just 0.6 is enough to make an airplane climb and accelerate like a dingbat.
  • Boosters for my Boosters. If cost per flight economics are truly a consideration,  it might be worth having a first stage of booster that's jettisoned at a low enough altitude to be recovered via parachute before the orbiter gets out of physics range.   Of course, this is departing somewhat from a vertical launched shuttle stack. 

 

TBH, I use liquid fuel boosters for the main boosters on Columbia, with SRBs to bring the pad TWR up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@AeroGav I have a couple of suggestions that might help you. I obviously can't suggest much without seeing the shuttle, but here's the ideas I can put forward:

  • Are you flying the shuttle with the orbiter beneath the launch vehicle? The real space shuttles did that on launch to reduce the lift of the orbiter, and whilst I know KSP doesn't model lift very accurately it does still seem to help somewhat to launch a shuttle like that.
  • Have you tried putting engines on the external tank? Obviously not an option if you're going for a NASA-style shuttle, but if you're designing freeform then engines on the external tank is often a good way to go. Coupled with flying the orbiter upside-down beneath the launch vehicle like the real shuttles, of course. This is how most of my designs fly (all of the ones I've made in the past that worked use an engine on the external tank), and I've found that it's quite effective.
  • If you're going to use LRBs, Vector engines are probably the best way to help with pitch control. Be careful to disable their roll control though, having Vectors on boosters with roll control enabled is usually a pretty good way to spin out of control.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, eloquentJane said:
  • Are you flying the shuttle with the orbiter beneath the launch vehicle? The real space shuttles did that on launch to reduce the lift of the orbiter, and whilst I know KSP doesn't model lift very accurately it does still seem to help somewhat to launch a shuttle like that.
  • Have you tried putting engines on the external tank? Obviously not an option if you're going for a NASA-style shuttle, but if you're designing freeform then engines on the external tank is often a good way to go. Coupled with flying the orbiter upside-down beneath the launch vehicle like the real shuttles, of course. This is how most of my designs fly (all of the ones I've made in the past that worked use an engine on the external tank), and I've found that it's quite effective.

20170210123438_1_zpsexnrv4qn.jpg

Test flight of the Orbiter block II,  taking off under its own power.  Quite an efficient airframe to get airborne with so little.

20170210191145_1_zpsyq5dwvjo.jpg

Quad-SRB arrangement - produces very little torque.   ATM they are tweaked to 75% thrust, so launch TWR is quite low.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@AeroGav That's a very...interesting launch configuration. As you said earlier, the way the wings are tilted up at the front is probably the reason for your pitch issues, but it's probably better to alter the launch vehicle than the orbiter since you've already configured the orbiter to fly properly. I think your best option probably is to use LRBs instead of the solid rockets; the complete lack of engine gimbal probably doesn't help with the flight profile (although using Reliants like you said earlier wouldn't exactly solve that issue).

Alternatively, maybe some well-positioned fins on the SRBs might help to counteract the lift problem. I don't know enough about KSP's lift mechanics to know if that would work, but since the center of lift of the vehicle is off-center at launch, perhaps what you need is to move it to a position that doesn't interfere with your launch profile.

Perhaps also flying the orbiter upside down might help. If it's pitching up, maybe you need to roll it 180° so that it pitches towards the ground instead. Having played around with asymmetrical launch vehicles quite a lot (though most often it's rockets with asymmetrical boosters), if you have a torque that's pushing your vehicle in a certain direction usually the simplest solution is re-orienting the vehicle so that the direction it's being pushed in is the direction of your gravity turn.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey all.

Here is my stock entry.

I claim to have completed the STS-1a.

I also claim the Pilot and Commander badges.

I have done a mission report.

I will only repost a few pics here.

6gGQHxb.png

FMRHO4O.png

aBQyYVt.png

tixNy11.png

sV0n83y.png

x8452ES.png

Thank you,

Onto STS-1b,

 

ME

 

EDIT

I just now downloaded the Mullet Dyne Fuel Pod and it's incompatible with my version.

I run 1.2.0

Until I get a reply I will make a 40.0t boiler plate.

Edited by Martian Emigrant
3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have completed the mission documentation for my entry for STS-1a. Full mission report can be found here. The mod list is in the first post in that thread.

IDyEMrJ.jpg

I should point out that I did use MechJeb's ascent autopilot for this flight, and I don't know whether my entry still qualifies with that considered. I know the rules say that MechJeb is acceptable, but I don't know whether that refers to all of MechJeb's features or just the basic information, Smart A.S.S, and maneuver planner (or even if it includes the maneuver planner). If it doesn't count then I'll fly future missions manually (mostly using Smart A.S.S for stability control unless that's also disallowed).

Also, I have three questions regarding the space telescope for STS-3:

  • Is there a download link for the space telescope? I can't seem to find one in this thread.
  • What's the part count of the space telescope?
  • If the part count is too high (I suspect that I can't reasonably launch cargo with more than about 100 parts), could I use an adapted version with identical mass but fewer parts?
Edited by eloquentJane
3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@eloquentJane  Well uh,  I just did a test flight with horizontal takeoff, liquid boosters, and booster boosterstm.  But hey, no jets.  That wouldn't be a Shuttle, right?

Someone should have reminded me before I disappeared down this particular rabbit hole that you should never go Full Kerbal.  This is what you get when you let RCS build aid design the ship for you.

Assuming i can live with the embarrassment of flying this thing,  it could still be tweaked.  The external tanks are probably too big, given that we hit orbit with 400 oxidizer.    Smaller ET might give a chance to downsize the SRBs, maybe we'd only need Thumpers.

Costings work out at 1100 for the Reliant, 4600 for each tank vs. 2700 per kickback. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Grrr... SM you are going to drag me back to KSP again... thought I had managed to quit.. Current addiction is Elite:Dangerous.

 In all seriousness, thanks for picking this back up, it give me a reason to finally finish my Tylo shuttle project.

I'll have a go at Mun Commander level on my next day off, it shouldn't be too much trouble to modify one of the existing fleet... bonus points for Minmus as well?

Kit

Edited by Paranoid Shark
SPG
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, AeroGav said:

@eloquentJane  Well uh,  I just did a test flight with horizontal takeoff, liquid boosters, and booster boosterstm.  But hey, no jets.  That wouldn't be a Shuttle, right?

Someone should have reminded me before I disappeared down this particular rabbit hole that you should never go Full Kerbal.  This is what you get when you let RCS build aid design the ship for you.

Assuming i can live with the embarrassment of flying this thing,  it could still be tweaked.  The external tanks are probably too big, given that we hit orbit with 400 oxidizer.    Smaller ET might give a chance to downsize the SRBs, maybe we'd only need Thumpers.

Costings work out at 1100 for the Reliant, 4600 for each tank vs. 2700 per kickback. 

I think I went a little overkill with my shuttle, because it has 4 kickback boosters, 2-8 hammers(depending on TWR requirements), 2 mainsails, and 4 vectors, not even including the OMS.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, AeroGav said:

and am keen to try the Duna missions with it, starting with the one to deliver a cargo to orbit.

That's fine, and feel free to complete the Duna missions, but as the rules are the rules,and you need to have completed the Kerbin missions in order to access the other categories, I wouldn't be able to award you a badge, and the mission report should not be posted in this thread :).

 

11 hours ago, eloquentJane said:

For the rescuing challenge, do both shuttles have to be identical, or could different ones be used?

Ya you can use different ones, no worries at all!

 

7 hours ago, 53miner53 said:

The Fuel Tank mission pics have been uploaded.

Great!  Still can't believe the size of the thing.  At least nothing major blew up this time!  Here's your badge and the OP will be updated shortly  et2p8E4.jpg

 

6 hours ago, Martian Emigrant said:

Hey all.

Here is my stock entry.

I claim to have completed the STS-1a.

I also claim the Pilot and Commander badges.

I have done a mission report.

Hello and welcome to the challenge @Martian Emigrant!  That's quite the shuttle there.  I like the orbiter design, and the booster configuration is, ahem, interesting!  Anyway you more than qualify with this entry and I am very happy to be able to award you the Commander badge for STS-1a.  Quick note for your thread - You get either the pilot or the commander badge, depending on what mission objective you complete, but not both.  The Commander badges are always more complex than the pilot badges and the badge given is a mark of which version of the mission you completed.   sE1QW9Q.jpg

 

6 hours ago, eloquentJane said:

 

I have completed the mission documentation for my entry for STS-1a. Full mission report can be found here. The mod list is in the first post in that thread.

 

That's a very nice midi shuttle you have there!  You have quite the modlist, and mechjeb is fine by the way as per the OP rules.  Seems like it flies well, has plenty of fuel on orbit, and has capability for some serious acrobatics in atmosphere.  Here is your well earned badge Commander!   8joD5Di.jpg

 

6 hours ago, eloquentJane said:

Also, I have three questions regarding the space telescope for STS-3:

  • Is there a download link for the space telescope? I can't seem to find one in this thread.
  • What's the part count of the space telescope?
  • If the part count is too high (I suspect that I can't reasonably launch cargo with more than about 100 parts), could I use an adapted version with identical mass but fewer parts?

The Hubble probably needs updating for 1.2.x  I don't know if @xoknight is around much (last visit Dec 2016) but the link is here.  @Alchemist last updated it so may want to update it for us, or ok another user to do so.  You are totally allowed to design your own for this mission now though if that's something you want to do.  The HST is currently 124 parts in its current format.

 

1 hour ago, Paranoid Shark said:

Grrr... SM you are going to drag me back to KSP again...

Something alllways drags me back in!  Good to see you here @Paranoid Shark I'm sure you will come up with something, um, terrifying!  Minmus will probably get it's own category soon :)

 

SM

6 hours ago, Martian Emigrant said:

EDIT

I just now downloaded the Mullet Dyne Fuel Pod and it's incompatible with my version.

I run 1.2.0

Until I get a reply I will make a 40.0t boiler plate.

Sorry, missed this bit.  Just make an identical copy, it should be 40t exactly.

SM

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now