SQUAD

KSP Weekly: From publisher to a comet's name

76 posts in this topic

On 2/19/2017 at 1:24 AM, The solid fuel chemist said:

comets... all add that to my "things the supa-secret project might be" list,

In my fevered dreams, axial tilt is allowing them to make comets for some reason that I can't quite articulate or defend.

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14 hours ago, JPLRepo said:

Development continues. With all the new devs coming on board why would you think otherwise? What difference does a version number make?

Interesting reply. I notice you didn`t say "Of course we are working on 1.3!". I was curious why, before 1.2.2, the devnotes always mentioned the next update by version number but after 1.2.2 there has been no mention in the weekly.

Any change in the way something is talked about generally indicates internal changes regarding the way it is being dealt with. With politicians and some other groups you get more information from what is not being said than what is. Every party leader first stops denying they will go for the job of leader and it is when they stop saying something that you should pay attention.

I`ll still assume that development priority has shifted from what I would call active development into polishing development (I`m sure there are more suitable names) unless a weekly or staff member mentions 1.3 and features. Localisation, texture passes, minor bugfixes, external projects. These are not things I call development, they are maintenance.

As I said, I`m sure work has continued, like you say what else would you be doing with new staff?

17 hours ago, John FX said:

Like I say, I`d love to be wrong. I don`t think I am though. As soon as I see an increased version number mentioned I`ll know they still are. I`m also not saying they have stopped work, I`m saying they have fundamentally changed the way they relate to the project following 1.2

I just think things are different now and I`ll continue to wait for some mention of 1.3 or a specific feature. It will be a happy day. It`s not today though.

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1 hour ago, John FX said:

Interesting reply. I notice you didn`t say "Of course we are working on 1.3!".

snip

I`ll still assume that development priority has shifted from what I would call active development into polishing development

While you can assume what you like, such discussion is better suited to the Development Discussion forum :)

Development continues...

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15 minutes ago, sal_vager said:

While you can assume what you like, such discussion is better suited to the Development Discussion forum :)

Development continues...

I was commenting on the meaning of the weekly, what was said in it and what was not, more than that but I`ll take a hint and quietly wait for mention of the next update.

Although to me it`s yet another sign that the weekly has been distanced from development and shifted away from discussing the latest development report from Squad if you compare it to the DevNotes pre-1.2.2...

I`ll know to discuss the weekly and what it means in Development Discussion now.

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Version numbers are hardly the Weekly :wink:

Feel free to discuss Squads versioning in the appropriate forum, I can move your posts from here if you like :)

Otherwise feel free to discuss the content of the Weekly here, for example my PC is running fine :P

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52 minutes ago, sal_vager said:

for example my PC is running fine :P

That's good to hear.

Regarding the Weekly, I missed any mention of the development of that super secret thing. Was that dropped, or just didn't progress enough for it to be worth mentioning? Or are you guys dehyping it?

Why is it a secret anyway?

Edited by Shpaget

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Just now, Shpaget said:

That's good to hear.

Regarding the Weekly, I missed any mention of the development of that super secret thing. Was that dropped, or just didn't progress enough for it to be worth mentioning? Or are you guys dehyping it?

Why is it a secret anyway?

The secret thing is super secret, its progress is classified and its nature is hidden, but all will be revealed in time.

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Just now, Shpaget said:

Why is it a secret anyway?

What is it with you guys and your interest in the forbidden feature of mystery? :D

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nice.

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All right then! It's still on the board.

Jim, it wouldn't be much of a mystery if noone was interested. Poking our noses is what makes the mystery more fun.

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On 2/18/2017 at 9:04 PM, JonathanPerregaux said:

I have to be a jerk and ask: With all the effort at building localization, isn't it a "problem" that all our favorite mods will likely remain in English?

 

On 2/18/2017 at 11:20 PM, HebaruSan said:

My plan is to build in the ability to read in resources for other languages, then invite users to submit strings and check them with Google Translate. Hopefully SQUAD's method of localization makes this easy.

A version of this has been implemented by SCANsat for a long time (it was added sometime around when Squad first started talking about localization, sometime during the 1.0-1.1 update, I think).

SCANsat isn't a very text heavy mod, but where there is text I added in a help-tooltip system that reads the help text from a file. It supports the addition of different languages to explain what all of the settings do. I would also note that, despite mentioning this feature many times, and adding a section in its wiki covering how to add new translations, I don't think I've seen a single mention of the idea, much less had anyone submit a set of translations. 

Maybe after the KSP localization patch is out there will be more interest, but I don't foresee any huge push by modders to support different languages. Something like tooltips is simple to implement, since there are fewer UI space issues, but allowing for different text inside of a regular window could be much more difficult. 

It would also be nice if we had some idea for how part descriptions will work, as those are probably the biggest source of mod-related text. Will there simply be different config files for different languages (seems like a bad idea because of the possibility of ending up with duplicate part configs)? Or will there be some way to tag definitions for each language? Or should we rely on Module Manager to switch out text based on the chosen language?

Edited by DMagic
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4 hours ago, sal_vager said:

The secret thing is super secret, its progress is classified and its nature is hidden, but all will be revealed in time.

This is the type of hype I use to fall asleep when I have insomnia.

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4 hours ago, sal_vager said:

The secret thing is super secret, its progress is classified and its nature is hidden, but all will be revealed in time.

Much like government projects! :wink: 

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3 minutes ago, DMagic said:

SCANsat isn't a very text heavy mod, but where there is text I added in a help-tooltip system that reads the help text from a file. It supports the addition of different languages to explain what all of the settings do. I would also note that, despite mentioning this feature many times, and adding a section in its wiki covering how to add new translations, I don't think I've seen a single mention of the idea, much less had anyone submit a set of translations.

Maybe after the KSP localization patch is out there will be more interest, but I don't foresee any huge push by modders to support different languages.

Thanks for sharing your experience (I actually remembered seeing that code, but couldn't remember which mod it was from). I do expect that localizing the stock game will increase the demand for localized mods. It would be kind of silly for a person to look at an all-English main menu, KSPedia, KSC descriptions, KSC building text, tutorial popups, on-screen messages, part textures, etc., and then go after SCANsat of all things for not being in their language.

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Just now, TheEpicSquared said:

Much like government projects! :wink: 

Nah more like █ █ █ █ █ █ █  was █ █ █ █ █  and it's █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █  it'll █ █ █ █ █ █ █  rock your █ █ █ █ .

 

7 minutes ago, klgraham1013 said:

This is the type of hype I use to fall asleep when I have insomnia.

Mysteries before bedtime :D

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2 hours ago, sal_vager said:

Nah more like █ █ █ █ █ █ █  was █ █ █ █ █  and it's █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █  it'll █ █ █ █ █ █ █  rock your █ █ █ █ .

Aha! A clue! Let us analyze it at once! It's clear that the last word is "mind." We can go from there.

Edit: Split to new thread: 

 

Edited by 0111narwhalz
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1 hour ago, sal_vager said:

Nah more like █ █ █ █ █ █ █  was █ █ █ █ █  and it's █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █  it'll █ █ █ █ █ █ █  rock your █ █ █ █ .

*Rubs hands and smiled wickedly* Time to get to work! 

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7 hours ago, sal_vager said:

Otherwise feel free to discuss the content of the Weekly here, for example my PC is running fine :P

Please tell me you have a UPS now to isolate it from your abodes terrible power system

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1 minute ago, NoMrBond said:

Please tell me you have a UPS now to isolate it from your abodes terrible power system

Indeed I do, ebays finest, with enough battery to allow a safe shutdown.

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2 hours ago, DMagic said:

 

A version of this has been implemented by SCANsat for a long time (it was added sometime around when Squad first started talking about localization, sometime during the 1.0-1.1 update, I think).

SCANsat isn't a very text heavy mod, but where there is text I added in a help-tooltip system that reads the help text from a file. It supports the addition of different languages to explain what all of the settings do. I would also note that, despite mentioning this feature many times, and adding a section in its wiki covering how to add new translations, I don't think I've seen a single mention of the idea, much less had anyone submit a set of translations. 

Maybe after the KSP localization patch is out there will be more interest, but I don't foresee any huge push by modders to support different languages. Something like tooltips is simple to implement, since there are fewer UI space issues, but allowing for different text inside of a regular window could be much more difficult. 

It would also be nice if we had some idea for how part descriptions will work, as those are probably the biggest source of mod-related text. Will there simply be different config files for different languages (seems like a bad idea because of the possibility of ending up with duplicate part configs)? Or will there be some way to tag definitions for each language? Or should we rely on Module Manager to switch out text based on the chosen language?

You also planned to add translation support of your others mods?

On the french community I know one or two people which wait to translate some mods :wink: but they are quite afraid by mods which need to be recompiled for translation :'( I will try to contact them for SCANsat.
Personally, in the wait of the stock translation, I've used the API on LanguagePatches to translate my mods in french.

Edited by Malah

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On 19/02/2017 at 10:41 PM, pandaman said:

I missed  Halley's comet last time, and I'll be 100 the year it next arrives in the neighbourhood. I plan on being around to see it.

I did see Hale-bop when that came past though, so at least I've seen one.

Funnily enough I was under a year old when Halley's comet passed by. I remember a hoo-hah about Hale-Bopp too while I was at school - my dad had a big telescope and finally had an excuse to set it up for something special.

The older I get, the more awesome these celestial coincidences get. Human lives are so brief and fragile, yet comets, eclipses, supermoons etc... their intervals are just wide enough apart that kids can have 1st hand experiences of them almost exactly the same way their dads and grandpas did, often without a single opportunity passing anybody by.

Unsurprisingly, I'll be 75 when Halley's comet next returns. Hale-Bopp on the other hand won't be back for about 2400 years, and the next total solar eclipse to be seen from my country (England) won't be till I'm 104. Perhaps I'll get lucky?:wink:

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On 18.02.2017 at 3:47 AM, SQUAD said:

We’re planning to continue which the Developer Articles to let developers talk about their work and experiences in greater detail and to give you more insight about some of the challenges we face when developing KSP. These won’t be scheduled as regular forum posts, as we’ll be having multiple authors sharing info whenever they are willing and able. Nevertheless we will let you know when these come out, so you don’t miss any and keep your eyes peeled on the DevBlogs section of the forum for when they do.

It would be nice if sometimes there were some advanced modding hints and tutorials by the developers as despite we now have cool API docs, still incomplete though, sometimes much trial and error is required to find out how things actually work. Besides that, someone could be inspired to implement a cool feature by reading such articles.

On 18.02.2017 at 3:47 AM, SQUAD said:

Russian: Бесплодные земли Билла

Russian is acceptable. But to my personal taste more poetical variants are better: "Bills misery, "Bobs salvation", "Jebediah's desolation" instead of just "Bill's badlands".

Edited by Ser

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1 hour ago, Ser said:

Russian is acceptable. But to my personal taste more poetical variants are better: "Bills misery, "Bobs salvation", "Jebediah's desolation" instead of just "Bill's badlands".

There are both abstract and geological names in the generator. It's a matter of chance which one appears.

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From my perspective, localisation seems to the a next logical step after a completed product (with the assumption that the original strategy actually comprehends localisation) >>> Maximise the revenue from new language markets - always a good idea.

However, it might be the case that folks in non-english markets already speak and read enough english that they are coping with KSP as it stands. Market data is required here. If you ignore career mode, KSP is not a dialogue intensive game (Since it is basically a sandbox). By adopting english-only mods packs (contracts a the prime example), Squad has been forced by stealth into a major localisation effort.  To me, this smacks of a failure to strategise early on - and to nurture the add-on mods marketplace to support a long term strategy.

Additionally, I do not see evidence of any marketing data that says 'localisation' will drive more sales compared to something like "new features, content or performance' (OK, fair enough - why should Squad show me that info?)  Still, prior to applying resource to an effort, someone in the leadership team needs to have sufficient confidence of a resulting benefit that will be realised. So, 6 months of development effort will yield what increase on sales?  Who knows!?  Localisation must not only be an 'accommodation' effort, it MUST also is a 'profit generating' effort.  

Finally, as any development professional will attest - Requirements must map to benefits, otherwise you are just spending money.  How were the requirements for localising KSP elicited/derived?

Semi-related:  @SQUAD - Thank you very much for the recent updates to the devblog immediately following my suggestion last week.   Please keep it going.  Invest time in devblogs = improved community awareness, involvement and support. Nicely done. (But wait, Fonts? Jeeze! However, Terrain seams... that was actually pretty f+6* good! :wink:)

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1 hour ago, Wallygator said:

From my perspective, localisation seems to the a next logical step after a completed product

Well, kind of.

The infrastructure for localisation should be included (and used) in all software from day one even if it initially only is 'localised' to a single language. (Unless you know that it will never have/need localisation).

Kludging it on afterwards is often very painful and laborious :/

But beside from that I'd say that according to my experience I've found a lot of people who shy away from games that aren't localised (and supported) in their own language.

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