SQUAD

KSP Weekly: Refactoring Kerbal

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I just read "Bug fixes". And that is basically what I was looking for. Localization is a big deal for some, and I am happy for them. To me, KSP has gone the way of Minecraft in that each release seems to matter less to me than the previous, and I just keep playing the game as I want to. If KSP got sent into maintenance mode I would still keep playing whatever version supported the mods I find necessary.

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I consider myself fortunate that English is my native language, all those odd spelling and pronunciation 'rules' that keep contradicting themselves because the words were 'borrowed' from other languages must make it an absolute pig to learn.  It was hard enough for me at times. 

 

But I really don't understand all the negative vibes around localisation. True, it's not what you would call exciting in the same way as new planets or shiny graphics may be, but it's still 'serious development' and clearly shows an ongoing commitment that development will continue due to the huge effort involved in implementing it.

 

Yes, many technical terms may not translate well, but that's common for many fields and why new 'foreign' words get integrated into other languages.  But the basics of the game - instructions, part descriptions, KSPedia pages, etc can be much more accessible in ones own native language.  Where an 'English' technical term is used because it doesn't translate directly, and/or because that's what's commonly used in that language, then that's not an uncommon issue.

 

I agree that many mods may take a while to localise, and many more will likely not do it at all, but that's not the point.  The 'vanilla' game is essentially what people buy to play, the more accessible and understandable it is to more players around the world the stronger it will be.  Awesome and very useful though many mods are, modding will always be an 'optional extra' for those that want it.

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3 hours ago, Corw said:

English may not be my first language, but it is a language I prefer my software to use. Localizations for my language are hilarious and I just can't be productive with them. I can't find half the stuff :D

Same here.

Even when the localisation is good it create problems with external guides/tutorials and makes it hard to search for solutions online.

Swedish isn't a very widely used language :wink:

 

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I still wait for 1.3 to be mentioned in the Weekly. There has been a begrudging statement halfway through a thread that `The Localisation Pack` will be 1.3 but a version number has yet to be mentioned in any weekly. Not one Weekly has ever mentioned a version number. Not even the announcement for the release date for `The Localisation Pack` mentioned a version number. Of course the game still has an internal version number, the pre-release is 1.2.9 and the release will be 1.3 (it would be idiotic to stop internal version numbering) but it is not being mentioned in the Weekly.

Personally, I find that odd and interesting as version numbers were mentioned in pretty much every Devnotes before that.

To people who will inevitably say "Why are you interested in a version number? Work continues after all."

It is a change in the way Squad relates to the game or in the way they relate the game to us. Any time Squad changes the way they relate to the game or the way the report the game to us I am interested and I will wonder why and what it means for the future of the game and I will do this on the forum.

My response is, "why are you not interested in that?"

 

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2 hours ago, John FX said:

I still wait for 1.3 to be mentioned in the Weekly. There has been a begrudging statement halfway through a thread that `The Localisation Pack` will be 1.3 but a version number has yet to be mentioned in any weekly. Not one Weekly has ever mentioned a version number. Not even the announcement for the release date for `The Localisation Pack` mentioned a version number. Of course the game still has an internal version number, the pre-release is 1.2.9 and the release will be 1.3 (it would be idiotic to stop internal version numbering) but it is not being mentioned in the Weekly.

Personally, I find that odd and interesting as version numbers were mentioned in pretty much every Devnotes before that.

To people who will inevitably say "Why are you interested in a version number? Work continues after all."

It is a change in the way Squad relates to the game or in the way they relate the game to us. Any time Squad changes the way they relate to the game or the way the report the game to us I am interested and I will wonder why and what it means for the future of the game and I will do this on the forum.

My response is, "why are you not interested in that?"

 

Version numbers don't fit in with their new optimal marketing stratagem.  They have been excised from all current and future press releases as to avoid confusing potential costumers.

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Just now, klgraham1013 said:

Version numbers don't fit in with their new optimal marketing stratagem.  They have been excised from all current and future press releases as to avoid confusing potential costumers.

This seems the best explanation I have read so far. Myself though, I don`t regard posts on the forum to be press releases...

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5 hours ago, Thomot512 said:

as far as I know there is no way to translate 'Rocket scientist' [...] in german. And according to wikipedia, Rocket Science doesn't even exist in any other language.

German? Seriously?

A few more outside of Germany:

And that's just focusing on the original innovators. There's currently a Frenchman on the International Space Station, one module of which was built by the Japanese space program.

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5 hours ago, Thomot512 said:

My mother language is french, my 'first' second language is german and as you may see I speak a little bit of English and as far as I know there is no way to translate 'Rocket scientist' neither in french nor in german. And according to wikipedia, Rocket Science doesn't even exist in any other language.

FR: Fuséologie, DE: Raketentechnik

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21 minutes ago, HebaruSan said:

German? Seriously?

A few more outside of Germany:

And that's just focusing on the original innovators. There's currently a Frenchman on the International Space Station, one module of which was built by the Japanese space program.

I believe the post to which you are responding meant the particular phrase "rocket science" not existing in other languages, not the science itself. I can't speak to the veracity of that as I'm only fluent in english.

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Posted (edited)

 

20 minutes ago, Gaarst said:

FR: Fuséologie, DE: Raketentechnik

The words exist but their figurative meaning may not be the same. At least in german, "Raketentechnik" is not commonly used as a synonym for "something incredibly complex". When metaphors or jokes are involved it is often more feasible to write new ones than to translate something existing.

Edit: now I think of it I actually remember someone jokingly saying "now I can call myself a rocket scientist" in german. He used the english word because the phrase just does not work as well in german.

Edited by pellinor

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1 minute ago, Red Iron Crown said:

I believe the post to which you are responding meant the particular phrase "rocket science" not existing in other languages, not the science itself. I can't speak to the veracity of that as I'm only fluent in english.

The post was suggesting that the game need not be translated to other languages because (emphasis added)

6 hours ago, Thomot512 said:

the concept of the game exist only in English.

Normally when people quantify words for particular things in particular languages, they're using that as a proxy for the prominence of those concepts in that language's culture (see the myth of the Inuit having dozens of words for snow), and I think that interpretation is supported by the above quote. In this case, the implication was that only English speakers have an appreciation of rocketry. Considering that Germans built the first device to cross the Kármán line, that made me chuckle.

Anyway, that was my reasoning. Thomot512 can clarify if need be.

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@HebaruSan Quote the full sentence and it makes more sense:

Quote

So my question is: why do you even try to translate a game about 'Mad rocket scientist' if the concept of the game exist only in English.

Emphasis mine. If you consider the game to be about "mad rocket science" then it makes sense. That and the poster mentions that english is not a strong language for them, I think you may be picking nits that don't exist.

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1 minute ago, Red Iron Crown said:

 

If you consider the game to be about "mad rocket science" then it makes sense. That and the poster mentions that english is not a strong language for them, I think you may be picking nits that don't exist.

But if Thomot512 believes that there is broad interest in the concept of rocket science across many cultures, and the problem is merely a gap in vocabulary as you would have it, then why the complaint in the first place? SQUAD can simply invent new terms in the process of localization, and the problem is solved. The nit is definitely there; neither the vocabulary nor the concepts of rocketry are limited to English.

Or are you putting the emphasis on the intersection of madness and science? Again we have a prominent early German:

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14 hours ago, Aperture Science said:

Oh god, I can already see the forum chaos after 1.3 is released with nothing new other than localization (I think that will be the first forum revolt I'll actually make part of)

 

Place your bets now on how many angry threads will be created.

2 rep says its going to be at least 1 thread for every person here :P. (those thread will also be promptly locked by our good friends, the moderators, due to the fact most if not all them will just be repeats of each other lol.)

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8 hours ago, Corw said:

Yeah, it is kind of hard to be excited about feature that you don't use. English may not be my first language, but it is a language I prefer my software to use. Localizations for my language are hilarious and I just can't be productive with them. I can't find half the stuff :D

I'm in a similar boat. First, I rather play games in English because too many games are dubbed with a thick Spanish accent instead of the more "neutral Spanish" that movies are often dubbed to, and the thick Spanish (from Spain) accent puts me off.

The other thing is that things that sound fine to me in English (not my native language) sound ridiculous when I read or hear them in Spanish. For instance: "This rocket engine is called 'Mainsail'? Well, that's ok" vs "Is this rocket engine called 'Vela Principal'? That sounds ridiculous!". Or I was hearing someone reading the Harry Potter books aloud and thinking "Ugh, my ears hurt" while I find them perfectly enjoyable reading them in the original language. 

 

But that's an issue of mine. Localization means I may get my dad to play KSP.

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Posted (edited)

9 hours ago, Thomot512 said:

And according to wikipedia, Rocket Science doesn't even exist in any other language.

Well yeah, that's the point of localization, right? In Dutch it'd be called "raketbouw" or something along those lines, because "rocket science" isn't a Dutch word.

If you're lucky enough to grow up with a European language, English isn't that hard to learn. However, if you grow up in China or Japan, English is a lot harder. Given that part of the game is about science education and you'd be aiming at kids in the range 10-15 yr, the language is going to be a large barrier, blocking the potential the game has as a STEM s(t)imulator. It makes perfect sense to have localized versions of the game. Especially when you're aiming beyond entertainment only. 

Edited by Kerbart
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All this splitting of hairs over whether some players get to see the game in their native language...

And then you have the people complaining about KSP adding features what are basically "watered-down versions of mods". Well, what the hell did you expect, mods are generally created to fill a void in features.

I have zero idea what else Squad could put into this game, it's pretty much feature-complete as far as I'm concerned. Anything else will just be a "watered down mod" or will cause performance issues for some players. Seems like a perfect time to squash the bugs and refactor the game.

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What has not been mentioned for a long time is how the part shape changes will affect the game and the way we play it. Lots of us submitted our bearing/hinge designs to avoid them bein broken, at the request of Squad I should add. We have heard nothing back from that. 

 Any change of letting us know of any changes that will break those designs? 

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KSP 1.2.3 - Completing the Tower with Rockets!

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1 hour ago, Majorjim! said:

We have heard nothing back from that. 

And this is a surprise?

1 hour ago, regex said:

I have zero idea what else Squad could put into this game

Axial tilt, fully open the API for modders to allow access to currently hardcoded things, clouds, scattering, a unified game settings area allowing both the all remaining currently unavailable career games and the current ones as just a subset of options, flesh out the rocket parts to remove glaring omissions, there is much that could be done. This is just off the top of my head as quick as I can type.

Also performance issues only for some should not hold back a game for the majority. Otherwise we would all still be playing ASCII Asteroids on a ZX81.

I agree though that if there is nothing Squad are willing or able to add to the game then preparations for mothballing should be considered. I`m hoping this is not the case. I know I can think of things the game would be improved by.

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Aside from opening the API, most ideas are things that mods already bring, though.

Idk, to me the game is pretty much done. A bit of polish, bug fixing, and maybe giving modders a helping hand seems like a good idea. Just as opening the game for more audiences, those who aren't fluid in english. Contrary to some believes in here, even in europe many people aren't well versed in english or don't want to play games in another language. Many rarely ever have to use english after school!

So no, the additional language support is a good thing nontheless, even if some people attempt to be cynical about it for some reason.

 

Of course there are things that would be cool to see, but I can understand if Squad wants to do other things too.

So I'm kinda neutral. Everything coming is a plus, I got my moneys worth out of the game. If they want to bring DLCs to continue development, that's fine as well. (although I think i'm supposed to get eventual early dlc for free cuz I bought on their site or so?)

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24 minutes ago, John FX said:

Axial tilt

Will never happen in vanilla, there is no incentive. Get the next version of Principia.

24 minutes ago, John FX said:

fully open the API for modders to allow access to currently hardcoded things

Part of refactoring.

24 minutes ago, John FX said:

clouds, scattering

Performance issues for people with lesser systems and possibly for consoles RE: memory usage. Cloud textures I can see, volumetric clouds not really.

24 minutes ago, John FX said:

a unified game settings area allowing both the all remaining currently unavailable career games and the current ones as just a subset of options, flesh out the rocket parts to remove glaring omissions

This is just refactoring and refining, there's no "new features" there.

24 minutes ago, John FX said:

Also performance issues only for some should not hold back a game for the majority. Otherwise we would all still be playing ASCII Asteroids on a ZX81.

Wild exaggerations need not apply, clearly there are performance issues when moving the game to console.

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maybe it's time for KSP2

with a new graphical engine

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58 minutes ago, genbrien said:

maybe it's time for KSP2

with a new graphical engine

There will never be a KSP 2. I would bet real money on it. 

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I'm putting my money on Kerbal Cart Racer.

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