xendelaar

All Reward Sliders at 10%: BIOME HOPPING TYLO

49 posts in this topic

2 hours ago, astroheiko said:

I admit it. At some point, I "cheated" (shame on me;.;) and used the Processing Lab. That took me too long. 10 % are really hard and I used 20% for funds reward etc.

Asteroids to fill the rest would be possible, as Cunjo Carl has already mentioned, but do you really want to do this? That would take a long time.

Even an occasional dip into 20% is astounding to me, so props on the accomplishment regardless.

 

@xendelaar I noticed the atmospheric variometer isn't in there yet. On Laythe, I think it'll total 400ish, and on Duna ~300. Eve high could get you ~180 I think, but I wouldn't wish Eve low all-biomes on anyone!

Also, with a tier2 admin building, the leadership initiative program can yield:

160,000 funds, 320 science and 64 rep lets you get a 30% science gain at the expense of a 45% contract rewards drop. It also has a 90% boost to milestone funds and rep, which is somewhat ameliorating.

Meanwhile, unpaid research takes 60% of your rep income and produces 1 science for every 2.25 rep. It's not a ton, but you get a lot of rep for planting a flag on every body in the game, I can attest.

The trick, as I understand, with the MPL is that each MPL on your craft can use each experiment once. So, if you gather an experiment 10 times (using a craft with a scientist), put it into 10 experiment storage units, and load them into an LKO space station with 10 MPLs, you'll wind up with an unusable amount of science... perhaps even in your case! Many people consider this style of play cheaty, and I'm unsure if it still works, but it's the story I heard. Part of the advantage of this is that MPLs apparently require a lot of micromanagement, needing to be slowly loaded and refilled with experiments regularly. Perhaps by having a farm running in synchronous, the setups will be repetitive but easy and their product won't come so painfully slow. Again, I've never used them, so I'd recommend testing this sort of idea for sanity before trying.

No matter what you decide to go for, good luck! I'm happy to hear this challenge will be a challenge right up to the end!

 

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Posted (edited)

 

@Cunjo Carl : Thanks! I was amazed by the profit I made on these missions as well. Jool contracts apparently really have high rewards… even with the slider at 10%! I only performed the following missions on each planet:

  • Plant a flag

  • Surface science on the planet

  • Science around the planet

  • 2x observational missions above  x km.

 

Jool  and its moons are a great way of making easy money. Upgrading the communications building costs a whopping 1.100.000 funds! So I need to complete a couple of more contracts in order to upgrade that building.

 

The idea with admiration building is very interesting! I’ve never used that thing before because of the small effect it has. Converting rep to science would be very interesting indeed! Thanks for this great idea!!

 

@astroheiko : I don’t consider the MPL cheating, but I do think it is kind of overpowered. It’s like you get the tech-tree instantly unlocked with just some time warping. I’m afraid I don’t have much choice in using the MPL in this challenge. According to my calculation, the planets don’t have enough science points on their own to unlock the complete tech tree. Even if my calculations (which are rough estimates)  are off with a factor of 2.

 

@Cunjo Carl again: Like I said before, I never thought about using strategies. I found them rather useless (too much sacrifice for too little gain), but this leadership strategy sounds really interesting! I still don’t think it will be enough to unlock the entire tech tree, but it is something! I will look into it. Spending Reputation on science points is also a good idea.

I consider the MPL as a last resort. I used them in my first real career game (1000 to 2000 game hours ago with version 0.90) and was frankly shocked how easy it was to unlock the entire tech tree with it.  I never touched it again. Maybe I will bring one along on my next mission.

 

My Next mission: Exploring Laythe

After calculating the surface science points per celestial body, I noticed that Laythe has a pretty high science potential. If I can unlock the variometer, a  jet engine and some plane parts, I could explore all 10 biomes for potentially ~2000 to 2500 science points. I could bring the data to a MPL for even more points, but I’m not sure if I’m ready do that yet. I could take one along, just in case.

 

I have enough science points to get the  variometer and Panther jet engine. Is the Panther efficient enough to fly around the planet? I haven’t built planes for ages. Or should I unlock the whiplash? the isp of the panther is pretty impressive (9000 s vs 4000 s for the whiplash). but the max speed is also lower...

 

I would build a tug that will haul in a

  • Jetplane: to visit every biome and perfrom SCIENCE! Off course this will be a manned trip (with a scientist). the plane will have a large wing span so it is has a low stalling speed. and it should be able to land on water. I've never made a water plane before so that will be fun. 

  • Ascend vehicle: a small dedicated craft to leave the planet when I farmed all the science. Maybe I could make the jet a SSTO, but I think that’s will make the plane very inefficient weight-wise. Or maybe I can make the ascend vehicle dockable to the jet plane so I can combine the airbreathing engine with a normal rocket.  I'll have to math the secretion out this problem before I can make a proper decision. Yay maths! :) 

The space tug will be a small space station that will fly in a polar orbit to perform observational contracts and process science with a MPL (optional). This will be the mother ship that hauls in all the equipment to Laythe and is used to get back to Kerbin.
Is it even possible to get into proximity of a waypoint if I have to fly above the atmosphere? I remember I had some difficulty completing an observation contract around Duna. I had to abort it because I couldn't get close enough to the waypoint, I think... Else I will park in an equatorial orbit and skip that contract entirely.

 

I also think I will have to upgrade my launch platform so I can exceed the 140 ton weight limit.

 

Any tips in general would be highly appreciated! :D

 

 

---------

edit:

i did some tests with the panther but darn it that thing is slow..i refuse to fly 3 hours to circumvent the planet. i will have to do some tests with the whiplash...

Edited by xendelaar
did some testing
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The proposal with unpaid research is also excellent, I had not even thought of that. This is probably the building that I almost never visit.:D

A plane to visit all biomes of Laythe without ISRU could be possible. Since you want to fly slowly I would not suggest the Panther or Whiplash. You have big wings, you need not much thrust, high range and high ISP? - Juno engine? It also saves a lot of weight.

As a wing I can recommend one with an integrated tank like the Big-S Delta Wing or the FAT-455 Aeroplane Main Wing. The wings should also have an angle of incidence of about 5 degrees. It is important that the Prograde marker shows as far as possible in the direction of flight, so that the body of the aircraft has little air resistance but the aircraft can generate lift. I hope you understand what i mean.

I had a SSTO on Laythe with Rapiers. After some bioms, I always returned to the mothership, refueled and land again until I had all biomes. That would also be a possibility.

However, I had difficulties to get out of the water, which always cost a lot of fuel. Sometimes it was better to land on a beach, drive into the water, do the investigations and then go back to shore and start from there. In any case, you should bring a good reaction wheel to get the nose out of the water, because the low speed the winglets are not yet working well. You can also have an RCR thruster at the bottom of the nose. And go at the end into the water if you do not have so much fuel anymore. Then the plane is lighter.

I now have a really strong desire to build a plane for Laythe myself.:cool:

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Posted (edited)

19 hours ago, xendelaar said:

 I consider the MPL as a last resort. I used them in my first real career game (1000 to 2000 game hours ago with version 0.90) and was frankly shocked how easy it was to unlock the entire tech tree with it.  I never touched it again. Maybe I will bring one along on my next mission.

 

 

Yes, this is how I've seen them as well.  I know I've already sent a thousand suggestions your way, but I've got just one more, which may help you avoid the dreaded MPL. The downside is it'll require you get the Tier 3 R&D facility ... but I guess you'll need to get it anyway! The gravity detector can also produce unbelievable levels of science because it can take an experiment for each biome in Low space (like EVA report) and in high space. Since this experiment is rerunnable and worth about as much as the SciJr materials bay, it can add up quick when you're in the polar orbit of a large body. It can also work when landed, so if you used it to gather all the science on say, Laythe, you'd get a whopping 600 science! Also, if a biome has water in it (Laythe, Eve), you can double up the experiments taken there by taking the experiment once on the ground and once in the water. This also counts for surface samples, which can be taken by standing on top of the plane and taking a sample.... Atleast I think that's how it worked, it's been a while. It's typically discussed by the term 'splashed science', for finding more. I think the splashed surface samples alone should net an additional several hundred science for your trip though.

 

19 hours ago, xendelaar said:

Any tips in general would be highly appreciated! :D

 

edit:

 

i did some tests with the panther but darn it that thing is slow..i refuse to fly 3 hours to circumvent the planet. i will have to do some tests with the whiplash...

I've enjoyed building quite a few planes for challenges. Big ones, small ones, fast ones, floaty ones... There's a whole art to it, that I'm only just starting to scratch the surface of. Still, when it comes to making a purpose built place-goer plane, I should be able to help you get off the ground! As for engine choice... a mach 5 whiplash seaplane would be.... a very entertaining design challenge! It would make a popular challenge thread, come to think of it because it's totally doable, but filled with nuance. Practically, it will be easier to get where you're going faster by phys-warping with a panther or a wheesly though. We can totally get a panther to mach 1.5 with 3x timewarp. I think at this point, you'd be spending as much time navigating and landing as flying from place to place. It's also a bit surprising, but you'll wind up using a lot of fuel just accelerating to the whiplash's cruising speed 10 times, let alone climbing to its optimum altitude and dropping back down... it's totally doable- if you have your heart set on it let's make it happen! Otherwise, probably the panther :) . (though don't count out the wheesly, it has a superb takeoff TWR and unbelievable Isp!)

Panthers or Whiplahes should be possible for making a space plane capable of a return voyage right from Laythe. That said, if you don't mind docking, the lander/motheship would be a lot easier design-wise. As an example, here's a panther SSTO challenge going on. I may be a contender and an avid fan.

Also, I might suggest checking out or participating in a recently rebooted challenge explicitly for hopping around Laythe, The Earhart Challenge. I may also be a contender and avid fan... (mission post coming later this week)

In any case, if you'd like inspiration or a bump in the right direction, feel free to send me a photo or file of the plane, it's mission and what you'd like it to do more/better/faster and we can plug through the design!

 

9 hours ago, astroheiko said:

I now have a really strong desire to build a plane for Laythe myself.:cool:

*cough* Earhart Challenge *cough* . We'd love to see you there.

 

Edited by Cunjo Carl
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Spoiler

 

The proposal with unpaid research is also excellent, I had not even thought of that. This is probably the building that I almost never visit.

A plane to visit all biomes of Laythe without ISRU could be possible. Since you want to fly slowly I would not suggest the Panther or Whiplash. You have big wings, you need not much thrust, high range and high ISP? - Juno engine? It also saves a lot of weight.

As a wing I can recommend one with an integrated tank like the Big-S Delta Wing or the FAT-455 Aeroplane Main Wing. The wings should also have an angle of incidence of about 5 degrees. It is important that the Prograde marker shows as far as possible in the direction of flight, so that the body of the aircraft has little air resistance but the aircraft can generate lift. I hope you understand what i mean.

I had a SSTO on Laythe with Rapiers. After some bioms, I always returned to the mothership, refueled and land again until I had all biomes. That would also be a possibility.

However, I had difficulties to get out of the water, which always cost a lot of fuel. Sometimes it was better to land on a beach, drive into the water, do the investigations and then go back to shore and start from there. In any case, you should bring a good reaction wheel to get the nose out of the water, because the low speed the winglets are not yet working well. You can also have an RCR thruster at the bottom of the nose. And go at the end into the water if you do not have so much fuel anymore. Then the plane is lighter.

I now have a really strong desire to build a plane for Laythe myself.

 

@astroheiko: I’ve been playing around with the FAT-455 Aroplane Main Wing and Big S delta wing and Panther. The Fat-455 has a great wingspan, but I did get faster (better?) results with the Big-S  with the same amount of DV. I don’t think I can unlock the Big-S part for now, but perhaps I can use regular delta wings to copy the wing area (which is 5 (m2??)). The Fat-455 has a larger wingspan, thus more drag. I’ve been trying to lower the drag by hiding stuff inside a small bay, but that’s not working as I would have hoped.

 

The next issue is getting out of the water. I’ve been checking the biome map of Laythe and I believe there is only one biome situated in middle of the ocean. If I start there with a separable pontoon, I could then release it after performing the experiments and just land on solid surfaces from there on out.  

One other alternative is to use a SSTO and refuel in space. It comes down on which method is most fun and/or fast. I’ll have to play around a bit to find out which tactic suites me best.  :)

Spoiler

 

 

Yes, this is how I've seen them as well.  I know I've already sent a thousand suggestions your way, but I've got just one more, which may help you avoid the dreaded MPL. The downside is it'll require you get the Tier 3 R&D facility ... but I guess you'll need to get it anyway! The gravity detector can also produce unbelievable levels of science because it can take an experiment for each biome in Low space (like EVA report) and in high space. Since this experiment is rerunnable and worth about as much as the SciJr materials bay, it can add up quick when you're in the polar orbit of a large body. It can also work when landed, so if you used it to gather all the science on say, Laythe, you'd get a whopping 600 science! Also, if a biome has water in it (Laythe, Eve), you can double up the experiments taken there by taking the experiment once on the ground and once in the water. This also counts for surface samples, which can be taken by standing on top of the plane and taking a sample.... Atleast I think that's how it worked, it's been a while. It's typically discussed by the term 'splashed science', for finding more. I think the splashed surface samples alone should net an additional several hundred science for your trip though.

 

 

Hey @cunjocarl . Thanks for the thousand suggestions! It makes me want to play KSP even more hehe. The idea of upgrading R&D building is very good. I wasn’t aware that the gravitation measurements generate that much science. I think it is an efficient  strategy to unlock all the science techs as soon as possible. I think I will skip Laythe for now and focus on getting funds to upgrade the R&D facility instead. Revisiting Bop or Pol would be easy way of getting funds again. I think it will take about 20 observational contracts to collect 2.000.000 funds, which honestly, is going to be a drag. I could spice things up and visit Vall instead. The turnout will be approximately the same as on bop and pol, but then I also could get the science from every biome. I wouldn’t be able to perform gravitational measurements though… and it’s not likely I will visit that moon again, just to perform one experiment on every biome.

Decisions .. decisions XD… I will have to think on what I’m going to do next. 

 

Spoiler

 

 

 


I've enjoyed building quite a few planes for challenges. Big ones, small ones, fast ones, floaty ones... There's a whole art to it, that I'm only just starting to scratch the surface of. Still, when it comes to making a purpose built place-goer plane, I should be able to help you get off the ground! As for engine choice... a mach 5 whiplash seaplane would be.... a very entertaining design challenge! It would make a popular challenge thread, come to think of it because it's totally doable, but filled with nuance. Practically, it will be easier to get where you're going faster by phys-warping with a panther or a wheesly though. We can totally get a panther to mach 1.5 with 3x timewarp. I think at this point, you'd be spending as much time navigating and landing as flying from place to place. It's also a bit surprising, but you'll wind up using a lot of fuel just accelerating to the whiplash's cruising speed 10 times, let alone climbing to its optimum altitude and dropping back down... it's totally doable- if you have your heart set on it let's make it happen! Otherwise, probably the panther. (though don't count out the wheesly, it has a superb takeoff TWR and unbelievable Isp!)

 

 

Panthers or Whiplahes should be possible for making a space plane capable of a return voyage right from Laythe. That said, if you don't mind docking, the lander/motheship would be a lot easier design-wise. As an example, here's a panther SSTO challenge going on. I may be a contender and an avid fan.

Also, I might suggest checking out or participating in a recently rebooted challenge explicitly for hopping around Laythe, The Earhart Challenge. I may also be a contender and avid fan... (mission post coming later this week)

In any case, if you'd like inspiration or a bump in the right direction, feel free to send me a photo or file of the plane, it's mission and what you'd like it to do more/better/faster and we can plug through the design!

 

 

 

Initially I was hoping to build a 4 tonnes, Mach 5, 9000 ISP SSTO-plane with a delta v budget of 100km/s. XD That dream was shattered pretty quickly when I started experimenting with different designs, hehe. After whining about it on this thread I lowered my expectations and started fiddling with the panther and the Juno, which resulted in pretty nice designs with a 70 km/s dV budget. I haven’t played with the wheesly yet. But I will look into it. I’m also considering installing an aviation mod to aid me during the longer flights. I could really use an autopilot to stay on course and to help me maintain an optimal altitude.

 

I still think I’m going to postpone the trip to laythe until I unlock all experiments though. The science multiplier on Laythe is off the charts and I want to squeeze every drop of science of this cold planet.  

Thanks for the link to both challenges. I will take a look at it later on today! I looking forward of seeing your entry.

If I get a prototype ready, I will sure send you a picture. I’m always looking for a way to make my designs better. Thanks :D

 

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so science is a problem?

most contracts in early career give one science per contract. I imagine that rises significantly the further you go

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14 hours ago, StupidAndy said:

so science is a problem?

Yes. Thank GOD that I always play on at least 100% rewards. 10% would be a nightmare. A nightmare that you're living in @xendelaar. Have you ever tried 1000% science? It makes the game too easy!

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Posted (edited)

Thanks for the replies @StupidAndy and @TopHeavy11.

Science is a problem indeed! From what I've noticed so far is that the science payout from contracts never gets higher later in the game. So, from time to time I get some contracts with a reward of say.. 1 to 3 science points. Theoretically I could completely unlock the tech tree with these contracts hehe. But by the time I would complete the challenge, chances are that KSP 2 is already in stores… on sale!  XD

The idea of using strategies to convert money and rep to science points seems to be a lot more efficient. combined with the MPL I think I will be able to complete the challenge within a month or so. I think… :)

Hehe I haven’t played a game with the sliders at 100% rewards in over a year. Boy, I’m starting to miss those good old days hehe. :wink: Still.. I find the 10% challenge very fascinating and entertaining!

Edited by xendelaar
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I suggest some kind of planet pack! Sure i know you have a gazelllion mods installed,but a small one,so it won't melt your compukter.

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interesting idea @cratercracker but I want to unlock the tech tree as stocklike as possible. :)

I'm thinking of installing the galileo planet pack after I finish this challenge.  

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Posted (edited)

just a small update.

i figured if i want to use stratrgies to convert funds( and rep )to science points, i should at least upgrade all the essential buildings to keep things a bit efficient. 

so the last couple of days I've been performing observational contracts around Bop. A very tedious task if may say so. the chances of getting a proper observation contract around bop were quite slim.  so I had to time warp...a lot... yes people..the road to glory is sometimes a lonesome and boring one...;)

i saved approximately 5.00.000 funds and upgraded:

- the administration building t2

- the launch platform t3

- the r and d building t3

- the communication building t3

i can now prep my next science farming mission to Vall.

after that we ll be visiting Laythe :)

Edited by xendelaar
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ooh, will you be sending Val to Vall?

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haha @StupidAndy i don't think so.  I'm setting up a comsat relay near jool so i don't need pilots anymore.

besides that, Val is currently cash cowing Ike with observational contracts, but I'm thinking of sending her back home because Jeb is doing the same thing around Bop... which is a more profitable location. 

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18 minutes ago, xendelaar said:

haha @StupidAndy i don't think so.  I'm setting up a comsat relay near jool so i don't need pilots anymore.

besides that, Val is currently cash cowing Ike with observational contracts, but I'm thinking of sending her back home because Jeb is doing the same thing around Bop... which is a more profitable location. 

it amazes me how much you can get done in this career, its just amazing :D

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Posted (edited)

Hi Everybody,

Here´s a small update from my mission. Like I said in a previous post, I´m still prepping for my flight to Vall. But before I commence the trip, I want to initiate the Leadership Strategy. However, I don´t have enough science points (320) available to start this strategy...yet

A pit-stop at the Mun

So as an intermediate mission, I performed a small visit to the Mun. In the GIF below you can get a glimpse of what I did. It's just a wrap-up of all screenshots taken during the mission, so don't expect anything special.

The GIF displays two missions:

Mission 1: launching the MPL into polar orbit; and a Scansat scan of the surface. 

Mission 2: launching an autonomous-Gravimetrec/ Seismetric-resource-extractor/refiner drone that visits every biome of the Mun. After that the drone heads towards the MPL where all experiments are extracted and processed.

4l4mIqs.gif

Prologue

Before I start I have to make a confession, for I have sinned... I.. cracked...and experimented with the power of the Mobile processing lab. I did this to get to know the power of the module and also to be sure I would have enough science points to start the leadership strategy.

I also unlocked two techs, namely specialized control and advanced electrics. I chose Specialized controls for the large reaction wheel and advanced electrics for efficient solar power collectors. the large reaction wheel was a useless upgrade in retrospect. I didn't need that thing at all...

Spoiler

1MRGHMe.png

Upgrading to the tier 3 R&D building felt a bit weird! It opened so many possibilities of approaching my upcoming missions that I didn't know what to do! I could make a SSTO-miner/refiner combination or work with dropships, or build space planes... the sky was the limit.  It was difficult for me to make an easy decision... I eventually made several designs and chose the lightest one...

The ships

THE SPACE LAB 1: The spacelab wouldn't be anything special but it had to be able to perform a ScanSat scan without ever depleting its energy storage (1 Energy/s) near the Mun, but also near Jool. It should also be able to fly to Jool without refuelling.

THE SCIENCE/MINER DRONE: The ship should have enough delta v (4500 m/s) to perform several munlandings ( ~ 3x) so that I could easily make two jumps before I have to find a proper refuelling spot.

Spoiler

The Space lab

cxvkelV.png

The Science Miner drone

seu6qrB.png

The mission

Launching the space lab wasn't anything special. I flew to the mun and performed a surface scan to locate fuel and all biomes. I used Scansat to get a proper overlay on the planet. I tried using kerbnet, but that´s just not working for me.

I then launched the drone and visited al 17 biomes in a couple of hours. I was amazed how fast I was able to get to all the Biomes. The delta V budget was enough to make several Landings. With 3 science reports per biome ( 2x Gravimetric and 1x seismetric) I retrieved  374 Science points pretty fast! After milking the Mun I dumped the science data into the MPL and converted "one batch" of data to 500 science points. I believe I'm able to get approximately 500 additional science points from the remaining data, so the MPL is still pretty overpowered!!

I will use the 500 science points to start the leadership strategy and then see how far I get without the lab on Jool. It is good to know I have the mpl as a backup in case things get too boring to handle. For now, I'm going neglect the MPL. 

 

Edited by xendelaar
so.. many.. corrections... and there are more to come
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On 5/1/2017 at 0:07 PM, xendelaar said:

Here´s a small update from my mission. Like I said in a previous post, I´m still prepping for my flight to Vall. But before I commence the trip, I want to initiate the Leadership Strategy. However, I don´t have enough science points (320) available to start this strategy...yet

Though I've got other comments to send as well, I wanted to mention now that strategies appear to be twice more effective than they advertise. So, if you sign up for Leadership at 30%, it will effectively behave at 60%. Check it on your system as well, but I believe it's universal!

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Posted (edited)

You finally get to play with the cool toys! Though the ISRU is time consuming, I'll bet it made the biome hopping a lot less of a hassle now you can just refuel on the ground rather than having to dock with the mothership every time. At first I was surprised to see the NERV on a Mun lander, but it started to make sense that with the unavoidable dry mass of the ISRU, the chemical engines just couldn't keep up in deltaV. How.... did you drill the ground with that thing anyway? :)

I really like your launcher design- it's a style I've never seen before! I especially like the version that splits the 1x 1.25m stack into 2x 2.5m. The Isp and cost per thrust on those Poodles is amazing, it's always just a problem of getting enough on there to meet the TWR requirements, and that seems like a great solution! Also, not that you need it but as a note, you can stick fuel tanks on top of radial decoupling SRBs and have them fuel your main engines during that initial stage (also need to enable fuel crossfeeding on the decoupler). It's a bit cheeky, but it can let you get away with smaller tanks on your main stack if that ever winds up being handy.

I'm realizing now, if that double-effectiveness-strategies thing happens on your system too, the top level Leadership strategy will give you negative money returns on contracts... You'll have to pay people to run their missions. I'm assuming you're budgeting out the final strikes of the challenge?

Finally, and perhaps most important: Nice tinted lighting. :D

Edited by Cunjo Carl
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Posted (edited)

On Wed May 03 2017 at 4:18 AM, Cunjo Carl said:

Though I've got other comments to send as well, I wanted to mention now that strategies appear to be twice more effective than they advertise. So, if you sign up for Leadership at 30%, it will effectively behave at 60%. Check it on your system as well, but I believe it's universal!I

I did one test on Kerbin and didnt get the same results as you did. I think I got a 30% buff. Is it true that you only receive the extra science when you collect the science in the space station and not directly when conducting the experiments?

On Fri May 05 2017 at 7:58 AM, Cunjo Carl said:

You finally get to play with the cool toys! Though the ISRU is time consuming, I'll bet it made the biome hopping a lot less of a hassle now you can just refuel on the ground rather than having to dock with the mothership every time. At first I was surprised to see the NERV on a Mun lander, but it started to make sense that with the unavoidable dry mass of the ISRU, the chemical engines just couldn't keep up in deltaV. How.... did you drill the ground with that thing anyway? :)

I really like your launcher design- it's a style I've never seen before! I especially like the version that splits the 1x 1.25m stack into 2x 2.5m. The Isp and cost per thrust on those Poodles is amazing, it's always just a problem of getting enough on there to meet the TWR requirements, and that seems like a great solution! Also, not that you need it but as a note, you can stick fuel tanks on top of radial decoupling SRBs and have them fuel your main engines during that initial stage (also need to enable fuel crossfeeding on the decoupler). It's a bit cheeky, but it can let you get away with smaller tanks on your main stack if that ever winds up being handy.

I'm realizing now, if that double-effectiveness-strategies thing happens on your system too, the top level Leadership strategy will give you negative money returns on contracts... You'll have to pay people to run their missions. I'm assuming you're budgeting out the final strikes of the challenge?

Finally, and perhaps most important: Nice tinted lighting. :D

You're absolutely right @Cunjo Carl! The ISRU makes life sooo much easier! Sure it takes more in-game time to refuel all tanks, but now I don't have to perform rendezvous anymore just to get some fuel. It saves me tonnes of real life time. My latest trip to Vall with an ISRU was a piece of cake. I will report on it later today or this week.
The nerves are indeed very efficient when you need a TWR of 0,3 to 0,6 and when you're hauling a large payload. The drill was just able to reach the ground so I could mine anywhere I want. I used the space lab around the mun to perform a resource scan so I knew where to find fuel.

Thanks for the complement on my launcher. I use an excelsheet to calculate which engine is most efficient at a given payload, TWR and delta V budget. The Poodle comes out on top in most cases as a second stage of the launch vehicle. Also, I don't have any other powerful vacuum engines unlocked at the moment so I  don't have much choice. :wink:

The idea of putting the liquid on top of the SRB is freaking brilliant! I've never thought about that. That's one of the main drawbacks of using an excelsheet. It cripples the creativity. I will implement this technology directly for my next mission to Laythe. Thanks :D:D

Negative money from contracts would be disastrous! My current missions are pretty expensive and most of the ships never get home so I lose a lot of money on materials. Luckily I have Jeb orbiting Bop to make me some money. I've been thinking of relocating him to Eeloo to increase profits.

haha, kerbal research has shown that Kerbals tend to stay more relaxed when they are surrounded by warm playful colours :cool:

Edited by xendelaar
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Posted (edited)

Visiting Vall

Visiting Vall was a blast. I visited every biome and retrieved most of its science (it think). Here's a a small update of the mission.

The mission

For this mission, I chose to go for a  science lander with an ISRU. I didn't want to use a pilot for this mission, so in order to use an octa core, I needed to get a relay up near Jool. Also, I figured I didn't need to send my Scientist back to the KSC because we still need to visit Tylo and Laythe, Moho, Eeloo and Dres. Instead I will send a drone courier back containing all collected science. In the picture below you can see all 4 ships.

9Atl7ed.jpg

The mission went pretty smooth and there were no hiccups. The Relay with 4 RA-15 dishes (and the tier 3 communication building) were strong enough to have a link throughout the whole year. On the mining vessel I had enough energy storage and cooling capacity to produce fuel, without  the drill overheating or shutting down. The biome hopping took me about 2-3 hours (play time). I also performed 2 observational contracts to make the mission profitable. After that I rendezvoused with the mail-drone , which was orbiting the planet, and transferred the data to the science collector. After that the mail drone flew back to the space station.
The Science Lab and Miner vessel are still near Vall. I'm thinking of using the Space Lab for my Laythe mission. And I'm thinking of using the Science-Miner vessel for Eeloo, Moho and Dres in the future.

Here's a rough Gif of the entire mission. :) please let me know if it's too displaying stuff too fast or is too long. I'm still trying to figure out how to GIF properly :)

cWHNN0a.gif

Results

Like I said, was the mission very successful! I collected 2357,4 science points!! According to my calculation, I would be able to retrieve ~1700 science from Vall. With the leadership strategy I got an extra 544 science points (I think). So my calculation wasn't that off after all. I didn't think I got the 60% buff @Cunjo Carl was talking about.

MH53px5.png

Now, what should I do with all these science points hehe. I'm thinking of upgrading some stuff so I can build a jet plane for Laythe.

Edited by xendelaar
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Man you are awesome! The report itself looks like a real report! Or something even better!

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Posted (edited)

Plundering Laythe

I finally conquered Laythe! It took me quite some time to get there, but I did it. Here's a small  mission update.

Goal
My goal isto retrieve all science from Laythe and bring it back to Kerbin. According to some rough calculations I want to gain at least 2150* 1.30(from leadership strategy) = 2800 science points

Approach

  1. Build a Laythe worthy spaceplane (shown picture below)
  2. Build a small data courier probe that will be able to send all Laythe's science back to kerbin (shown picture below)
  3. Reposition the Space lab from Vall to Laythe and perform a surface scan so we know where all the biomes are at (shown picture below)
  4. Visit Laythe with the awesome spacesplane... do science... and get back into orbit
  5. Transfer science data to courier and send the courier probe to Kerbin

Y366gqy.png

SpacePlane to Space lab

In the next GIF you'll see the first fase of the mission: getting the spaceplane near the space lab orbiting Laythe.

VUrQNlt.gif

It's just the empty spaceplane that's being hauled to the space lab around Laythe. The space lab contains a scientist that we need for this mission. This part was pretty straightforward, although I had some difficulties getting aligned properly with the space lab that was in an awkward polar orbit.

Scienceing the faecal matter out of Laythe

After the scientist was on board the plane, we descended towards the surface of Laythe. Here's a GIF of this part of the mission.

u13n1mW.gif

The spaceplane flew great! Thanks @bewing for giving me several design tips and ideas! I used the Waypoint manager mod to pinpoint all biomes. The ship had a delta v budget of 25 km/s and I only used 10 km/s to cover all biomes. Ascending from water or land was no biggy.
After visiting all biomes I took off again and flew above the atmosphere using the jet engine. After that  I decoupled the plane part and activated  the last stage which contained a spark engine to get into a stable orbit

Getting the science back home

The next step was to get the data to the courier probe. So I rendezvoused with the probe and transferred all the date to the courier.

g5JaKdz.gif

With all data secured, the courier headed back to Kerbin where the science points were retrieved. Because of the Leadership strategy, I gained another 30% science bonus! YAY!

sGXlkdO.png

I gained more than 3200 science points from this mission! I'm really happy!! (The data collector also had many copies stored from other visits, so not all science points are from Laythe.)

 

Spoiler

On a side note, I want to report that I decided to cheat away the 500 science points I gained earlier from the mobile processing lab. It just didn't feel right. I really want to finish this quest without using that thing.

Here's the "proof". I did it before I finished the laythe mission:

BEFORE

ChTPB98.png

AFTER

9FukCj8.png

 

Edited by xendelaar
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Posted (edited)

So you have managed to build an airplane for Laythe which can also startt from the water. Congratulations.

Edited by astroheiko
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yes i did. laythe is a bit forgiving for seaplanes than kerbin. :)

it took me still quite some time to get a proper plane designed though.  

thanks for the comment. I'm still hoping i can finish my challenge

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TAMING TYLO

I've scooped the science from every planet in the Jool system, except for Tylo. I've been thinking of skipping this planet because of its massive gravity well, but finally figured I just wanted to visit it because it would be challenging. So let's see how how I tamed this beast, shall we?

Aims

My main objective is to visit every biome on the planet and gain at least 1670 science points.

Ships

For this mission I used 3 ships to get everything done.

9jvo3Ds.png

I needed a ship to perform a ore and boime scan from the surface (left pic). That's why I used the space lab again on this mission. I had to transport it from Laythe to Tylo.
Next step was  getting a biome hopper on Tylo that would be able to visit at least 2 biomes before it needed refuelling (middle pic). This was quite tricky because this meant that I needed at least 5000 m/s to get two hops, and chemical SSTO's have a dv limit of ~6000 m/s when the TWR is bigger than 1.8.
Finally, I needed a small ship that's able to bring all the science back to Kerbin (right pic).

Approach

- Refuel science/scanning vessel orbiting Laythe; Move from Laythe to Tylo; Perform Biome scan. <GIF1>
- Send in a huge mofo biome hopper (TWR 2, DV 5300 m/s, ~145t) <GIF2>
- Visit all biomes on Tylo <GIF3>
- Rendezvous biome hopper with Data Courier vessel and send the ship to Kerbin <GIF 4>

 

Getting Orbital Scanner to TyloTo get the orbital scanner (space lab) to tylo I need to refuel it first. I used the Vall refueller from a previous mission to fill up the tanks. After that we moved from Laythe to Tylo and performed a surface scan:

Spoiler

 

zFg8Lzm.gif

 

 

Getting Huge Biome hopper to Tylo

Next step is getting the biome hopper to Tylo.  I transported the hopper to Tylo and rendezvoused with the Space lab to get a scientist on board

DYthIDL.gif

 

Collecting all the science!

After the scientist got on board. I visited every biome. It was a little bit tricky because I needed to land very close or on a ore field with every landing. Else I would run out of fuel! Luckily there was enough ore near every ore-less biome! :) Refuelling took years (!) per biome hop, which made this trip a bit boring.

HbBShk3.gif 

 

Getting the treasure back home

After visiting every biome I rendezvoused with the Data courier and transferred the science to its science container. Finally I headed back to Kerbin and landed the science container somewhere in the ocean.

Spoiler

 

fhs0VAB.gif

 

 

 

Mission evaluation

The mission went fairly well. Biome hopping on Tylo wasn't easy, but it wasn't impossible either. However, the science return was a bit of a let-down:

CelP3x0.png

I only received 1529 science points, while I was hoping to retrieve at least 1670 to 2100 points. During the mission I found that Tylo has one biome less than stated in the WIKI. This explains the difference in science points. Also... I believe that I didn't receive ANY bonus points from my current LEADERSHIP STRATEGY!  These bonus points are usually printed in brackets behind the line `science earned`... but now I don´t see anything. This is really frustrating because I´m missing out of approximately 500 science points from this mission! Maybe some stuff changed with the patch to version 1.3??? Anywho.. it was a bit of a disappointment... (EDIT: I performed a field experiment with and without the leadership strategy and I can conclude that the leadership strategy is still effective. It just isn't clearly prompted as it was in version 1.2. The additional science is added to the "science earned value)

With these science points, I unlocked several science nodes which brings me to the current status of the tech tree:

9rr1F87.png

As you can see I'm pretty far down the tech tree but I still need  (~8000 - ~3000=) ~ 5000 science points to finish this challenge. I still have Eeloo, Moho, Dress and Eve on the to-do list, which should contain enough science points to complete my mission! I hope I don't need to visit Eve though... I don't see me visiting every biome on that planet in one lifetime! :D

Next stop: Eeloo

Edited by xendelaar
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