Rath

Airliner Safety Challenge

165 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Airliner Safety Challenge

   

 

 

In this Challenge you must build an airliner that fits in one of the four categories, each category has it's own scoreboard:

Light: 2-16 passenger Kerbals.

Medium: 17-32 passenger Kerbals

Heavy:32-64 passenger Kerbals

Super-Heavy: 65+

 

Rules:

  1. No excessive clipping (Clip any structural parts you want, no fuel tanks into fuel tanks, keep passenger cabins mostly intact).
  2. No Cheats (Duh).
  3. A passenger Kerbal is defined as a Kerbal that is contained within a crew cabin without control capabilities.  The extra crew in the Mk3 cockpit are considered flight attendants, and it has a scoring bonus to reflect this.  You can also add extra (more than two) cockpits to get in on those sweet, sweet flight attendant points.
  4. Any plane must have at least one Kerbal piloting it.  Heavy and above planes must have two pilots.
  5. No floating parts.  I love offset, but at least stick a strut on there.
  6. Mods are allowed, but no cheaty ones.
  7. No staging.
  8. No VTOL.
  9. No parachutes (Except for a single drouge if you really want)
  10. Your plane may leave the atmosphere, but cannot orbit.
  11. your plane cannot contain any rocket engines, and if RAPIERS are included, a screenshot must be provided of all oxidizer drained in the SPH
  12. You must have at least one clear picture of your plane.
  13. Electrical or otherwise infinite range aircraft do not have their range included in the scoring.
  14. You must submit pictures of your plane.  At least one inflight.
  15. You must calculate your own score.

 

Scoring:

Bonus points:

  • Your plane cannot tailstrike no matter how hard you pull up on takeoff (20 points)
  • Your plane stalls at less than 50m/s (5 points)
  • Your plane stalls at less than 30m/s (20 points)
  • Your plane stalls at less than 25m/s (30 points)
  • Your plane stalls at less than 20m/s (60 points)
  • Your plane does not need SAS to fly stably (20 points)
  • Your plane does not need trim adjustment to fly straight and level.  This only stacks with the non SAS points. (10 points)
  • Your plane can fly on 50% of its engines (20 points)
  • Your plane can fly on 66.6% of it's engines (5 points)
  • Your plane can fly on 33.3% of it's engines (30 points)
  • Your plane can fly on 25% of it's engines (35 points)
  • Your plane can belly land with all crew and passengers surviving (20 points)
  • Your plane can belly land without damage (40 points)
  • Your plane has airbrakes (10 points)
  • Your plane can ditch in the water with all crew surviving (10 points)
  • Your plane can ditch in the water with no damage (20 points)
  • Your plane is a seaplane (20 points)
  • Your plane is an amphibious seaplane (10 points, stacks with above)
  • Your plane can take off and immediately land back on the runway without turning around, and is heavy size or above (10 points for large 20 points for super-heavy)
  • Your plane has a way to jettison fuel without speeding up (10 points)
  • Your plane can fly on any two engines.
  • Simple fuel and air systems: your plane has all fuel tanks and air intakes in the same stack as an engine (10 points)

Point malus:

  • Your plane can lose controllability due to fuel shift (-20 points)
  • Your plane needs the end of the runway to take off (-20 points)
  • Your plane can break up due to aerodynamic forces (-20 points)
  • Your plane can melt itself if left at full throttle. (Saftey feature if both pilots fell asleep) (-10 points)
  • Your pilots do not have a clear view out the aircraft-I.E. windows are covered. (-10 points)'
  • Your plane solely relies on alternators on the main engines for power (-10 points)
  • Your plane contains an RTG or nerv engine (passengers don't want radioactive death leaking) (-20 points)
  • Your plane needs all of it's engines to fly (-20 points)

Base scoring (Subject to change):

Max speed+(max distance/10)+((Max passengers*5)*1+(number of flight attendants/2))+Bonus points

Example:

300+(5000/10)+(32*5)*1+(2/2))=1120

Leaderboards:

Light:

  1.  @Calmlamma: 7854.9 points!
  2. @zolotiyeruki: 5555 points!
  3. @DoctorDavinci: 3485.6 points!
  4. @pro100kerbonaught: 2538 points!
  5. @timzim8171907 points!
  6. @timzim8171867.82 points!
  7. @qzgy: 1,853 points!
  8. @tetragon213: 1586.7 points!
  9. @roboslacker: 1139 points!
  10. @bEAstmode: 830.5 points!
  11. @HamnavoePer: 587 points!
  12. @EpicSpaceTroll139: 300 points!
 

Medium:

  1. @proteasome: 3190.5 points!
  2. @martiplay28yt: 2434.1 points!
  3. @spacepod9: 2051.7944 points!

Heavy:

  1. @wanderfound: 1,632 points!
  2. @Physics Student:1239 points!

Super-heavy:

  1. @notanaimbot: 4305.2 points!
  2. @EpicSpaceTroll139: 3832 points!
  3. @DoctorDavinci: 3451.6 points!
  4. @Tetragon213: 2491 points!
  5. @SaturnianBlue:2116.9 points!
  6. @MustaKotka:1736 points!
  7. @Delay: 1381 points!
  8. @Spacetraindriver:1353 points!
  9. @EpicSpaceTroll139: 1302 points!
  10. @notsodeadjeb:1134 points!

 

 

Special Mentions

First entrant: @Spacetraindriver

Early Jet Airliner lookalikes: @EpicSpaceTroll139

Concorde Lookalikes:

Electric planes:

Edited by Rath
updated it again
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1 hour ago, Rath said:

Your plane has four engines and can fly on two (20 points)

Just going to throw out there, there should be a separate category for "flies on any two". Because obviously if the engines taken out are around the centerline, it's much too easy.

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I'm gonna try for a light plane, wish me luck.

 

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1 hour ago, greenTurtle1134 said:

Just going to throw out there, there should be a separate category for "flies on any two". Because obviously if the engines taken out are around the centerline, it's much too easy.

Good ide!

 

29 minutes ago, KerbinNation said:

I'm gonna try for a light plane, wish me luck.

 

Good luck!

 

 

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6 hours ago, Rath said:

Your plane can belly land

Does this mean touching down on the runway without traditional landing gear? lithobraking?

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I have a dual Juno plane I'd love to enter for this, I'll probably send it in after hauling the latest Project Babylon parts. I like this challenge! A couple things:
 

Probably shouldtipulate the plane should stay in the atmosphere. I don't think anyone will be cheeky, but JIC :) .

7 hours ago, Rath said:
  • Your plane has four engines and can fly on two (20 points)
  • Your plane has four engines and can fly on one (20 points)

Typo on the points for 1:4 engine flying.

How should we measure max distance? Fuel/time, or just fly it and F3? Just to doublecheck, its units are km?

With the point system as is, the challenge will probably be won by small, highflying multi-circumnavigators. This might be what you're aiming for, but if not, you can declare the speed and distance points like you do the bonus points (100m/s = 100points, 200m/s = 180points) scaled with diminishing returns. Alternatively, the weight-class system you have setup may be all you need.

Looks like a fun challenge!

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I'll give it a try! Sounds like a lot of fun and dying.

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Posted (edited)

I do this without even trying! Though I think I'll review my 747, Koncorde, and Airbus A380 for this challenge... Observe:

Spoiler

(Val being only one getting in for cinematic purposes, how do you expect me to get it out there? All cabins are whats there)

This one I'm doing out of memory, So not perfect but I think I can get a general idea:

Passengers: 192, Super Heavy

Crew: 4 Max

Max speed was around 300-400m/s

Max distance... IDK, Pretty far though... Just multiply the distance between KSC and Island by like...10..? 

No Tail Strikes (20)

Pretty stable without SAS (20)

Airbrakes! Like how am I supposed to slow down this huge lumbering beast? (10)

Simple fuel n air (10)

-30 for bonuses

So MathMathMath plus 30. Oh I have to do it?

Mmmmk.

350+32+960 ( :o )plus 1+ 30... 382... 1342...1353..?

My score = approximately 1353!

*Cracks Knuckles*

Time to do the 3 others!

 

 

 

Edited by Spacetraindriver
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Question: could I have a 5th engine for moving on the ground? And would a tail strike be counted if it breaks the runway instead of the plane?

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Posted (edited)

6 hours ago, Cunjo Carl said:

How should we measure max distance? Fuel/time, or just fly it and F3? Just to doublecheck, its units are km?

Let it fly and F3 once it crashes

7 hours ago, ruinzv2 said:

Does this mean touching down on the runway without traditional landing gear? lithobraking?

Yup!

1 hour ago, 53miner53 said:

Question: could I have a 5th engine for moving on the ground? And would a tail strike be counted if it breaks the runway instead of the plane?

You can have as many engines as you like.  If anything but the wheels touches the ground it's a tail strike.

Edited by Rath

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2 minutes ago, Rath said:

You can have as many engines as you like.  If anything but the wheels touches the ground it's a tail strike.

Ok. That makes it easier for me.

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Posted (edited)

So I took a shot at the Super Heavy part of this challenge ... Twas a lot of fun :)

I now present for your approval, the CANUKWorks Passenger 548-10-2 with room for 548 Passengers, 10 Flight Attendants and 2 pilots
Top Speed = 327m/s ... Top Speed in level flight = 308.1 m/s
10 Goliath's
6 Cockpits (2 Kerbals each)
33 Mk3 Passenger Modules (16 Kerbals each)
5 Mk2 Passenger Modules (4 Kerbals each)
Total Distance Travelled = 1,885,321m (2/3rd's the way around Kerbin approx.)

POINTS
308.1 + (1885/10) + (548*5)*1 + (10/2) =
308.1 + (188.5) + (2740) + (5) = 3241.6

Bonus Points
Your plane cannot tailstrike no matter how hard you pull up on takeoff (20 points)
Your plane has airbrakes (10 points)
Your plane can ditch in the water with all crew surviving (10 points)
Your plane can ditch in the water with no damage (20 points)
Your plane needs the end of the runway to take off (-20 points)
Your plane solely relies on alternators on the main engines for power (-10 points)

20 + 10 + 10 + 20 -20 - 10 = 30

POINTS TOTAL = 3421.6 + 30 = 3451.6

Here's the craft file: https://www.dropbox.com/s/1oj7ikyftjcw5vb/Passenger 548-10-2.craft?dl=0

And here's the video:

 

Edited by DoctorDavinci
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Also, what do y'all think of a sig badge?

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So... If I build a small ssto, fly it to orbit and leave it there for a year before landing it.  That would be worth around 2 million points?

Would that be considered "bending" the rules? :D

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Posted (edited)

270+98+720, 2/2+100 bonus...

368...

1088

1188...

Ahh, my 747 doesn't make it, oh well! 

Also what's with the no VTOLs rule?

Edited by Spacetraindriver

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How can I calculate a score for my plane? :D

uJ3i15F.png

Speed: orbital speed (2300+ m/s) Should I include any dV left?

Distance: anywhere on Kerbin + Mun/Minmus orbit (47000km?)

Passengers: 4 (20 pts)

 

 

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Posted (edited)

14 hours ago, Rath said:

Also, what do y'all think of a sig badge?

Would love a sig badge! 

Also, maybe you should add a rule that the planes have to stay in the atmosphere. Look at the post above this one for a reason. :wink: 

Edited by TheEpicSquared
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I've been working on an entry, haven't finished yet, but this is my score based on preliminary tests. 

Statistics:

Max speed = 265 m/s

Max distance = 6,288.189 km (more than circumnavigating Kerbin going east, not sure how much more though)

Max passengers = 80 (5 Mk3 cabins) (Super-Heavy Aircraft)

Number of flight attendants = 2 (the two rear seats in the Mk3 cockpit)

 

Bonus points:

  • Your plane cannot tailstrike no matter how hard you pull up on takeoff (20 points)
  • Your plane stalls at less than 50 m/s (5 points)
  • Your plane has two engines and can fly on one (20 points)
  • Your plane can belly land with all crew and passengers surviving (20 points)
  • Your plane has airbrakes (10 points)
  • Your plane can ditch in the water with no damage (20 points)
  • Your plane can take off and immediately land back on the runway without turning around, and is heavy size or above (20 points)

Total bonus points = 115

 

Scoring

   265 + ( 6288.189 / 10 ) + ( ( 80 * 5 ) * 1 + ( 2 / 2 ) ) + 115

1409.8189 points

But don't put this into the leaderboard yet, as I've yet to finish the plane and I can think of a million ways to improve it.

Also, I don't have pictures yet. :) 

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Posted (edited)

Well, I tried. Category: Heavy (48 Passengers)

Scoring:

Spoiler

Bonus points:

  • Your plane cannot tailstrike no matter how hard you pull up on takeoff It does
  • Your plane stalls at less than 50m/s Don't know, definitely more
  • Your plane does not need SAS to fly stably It flies kinda straight but only with SAS enabled and you're not pitching down.
  • Your plane does not need trim adjustment to fly straight and level.  It does but here's the tricky part: The slightest pitch-down causes it to pitch down even harder, burying itself hard into the ground.
  • Your plane can belly land with all crew and passengers surviving It crashes down hard!
  • Your plane has airbrakes It does, 10 Points!
  • Your plane can ditch in the water with all crew surviving Don't know how but this one time, everybody survived. 10 Points!
  • Your plane can ditch in the water with no damage The Cockpit and Passenger Cabin were nearly the only thing in tact.
  • Your plane is a seaplane Parts of it do in fact float!
  • Your plane has a way to jettison fuel without speeding up It has Drop Tanks that were supposed to be also swimmers for Water-Landings. 10 Points
  • Simple fuel and air systems: your plane has all fuel tanks and air intakes in the same stack as an engine 10 Points

Point malus:

  • Your plane can lose controllability due to fuel shift (-20 points) It doesn't even need to shift fuel
  • Your plane can break up due to aerodynamic forces (-20 points) that's a design feature!
  • Your plane needs all of it's engines to fly (-20 points) Define "to fly"

Base scoring (Subject to change):

Max speed+(max distance/10)+((Max passengers*5)*1+(number of flight attendants/2))+Bonus points

Hmm, Does max speed only count for a flight that had any survivors? I guess in this time, is must have been around 120 m/s (rough estimate)

 

120+(2/10)+(4*5)*1+(2/2))-20 = 121,2

That's a positive score, not too bad considering that my plane barely flew at all. The challenge isn't that old so do I have a chance to get on the leaderboard? I thought no one would care for the heavy category too much.

Edited by Physics Student
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4 hours ago, Physics Student said:

Well, I tried. Category: Heavy (48 Passengers)

Scoring:

Bonus points:

  • Your plane cannot tailstrike no matter how hard you pull up on takeoff It does
  • Your plane stalls at less than 50m/s Don't know, definitely more
  • Your plane does not need SAS to fly stably It flies kinda straight but only with SAS enabled and you're not pitching down.
  • Your plane does not need trim adjustment to fly straight and level.  It does but here's the tricky part: The slightest pitch-down causes it to pitch down even harder, burying itself hard into the ground.
  • Your plane can belly land with all crew and passengers surviving It crashes down hard!
  • Your plane has airbrakes It does, 10 Points!
  • Your plane can ditch in the water with all crew surviving Don't know how but this one time, everybody survived. 10 Points!
  • Your plane can ditch in the water with no damage The Cockpit and Passenger Cabin were nearly the only thing in tact.
  • Your plane is a seaplane Parts of it do in fact float!
  • Your plane has a way to jettison fuel without speeding up It has Drop Tanks that were supposed to be also swimmers for Water-Landings. 10 Points
  • Simple fuel and air systems: your plane has all fuel tanks and air intakes in the same stack as an engine 10 Points

Point malus:

  • Your plane can lose controllability due to fuel shift (-20 points) It doesn't even need to shift fuel
  • Your plane can break up due to aerodynamic forces (-20 points) that's a design feature!
  • Your plane needs all of it's engines to fly (-20 points) Define "to fly"

Base scoring (Subject to change):

Max speed+(max distance/10)+((Max passengers*5)*1+(number of flight attendants/2))+Bonus points

Hmm, Does max speed only count for a flight that had any survivors? I guess in this time, is must have been around 120 m/s (rough estimate)

Example:

120+(2/10)+(4*5)*1+(2/2))-20 = 121,2

That's a positive score, not too bad considering that my plane barely flew at all. The challenge isn't that old so do I have a chance to get on the leaderboard? I thought no one would care for the heavy category too much.

You can get on the leaderboard if you include a picture.

 

13 hours ago, Spacetraindriver said:

Also what's with the no VTOLs rule?

I can't think of how to score them.  I'll add them if enough people participate, so they can have their own boards.

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The distance calculation--I assume that's in km?

:evil chuckle: I've got a few ideas for this one  >:D

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Posted (edited)

On 3/18/2017 at 6:45 AM, Rath said:

Finished post for Columbia passenger.

Scoring:

Bonus points:

  • Your plane cannot tailstrike no matter how hard you pull up on takeoff (20 points) No tail strikes!
  • Your plane stalls at less than 50m/s (5 points)Yes
  • Your plane does not need SAS to fly stably (20 points)No SAS required, only recommended.
  • Your plane has airbrakes (10 points)A lot of them.
  • Your plane can ditch in the water with all crew surviving (10 points)Yep!
  • Your plane is a seaplane (20 points)It can land in the sea. No taking off though.
  • Your plane has a way to jettison fuel without speeding up (10 points)Reverse thrust count?
  • Simple fuel and air systems: your plane has all fuel tanks and air intakes in the same stack as an engine (10 points)Yes. There is some fuel in the front in case I need to transfer fuel for added stability, but that's more a holdover from the Shuttle design than for the plane itself and it is in line with the ground engine.

Point malus:

  • Your plane can break up due to aerodynamic forces (-20 points) on the shuttle, it was capable of losing control at ORBITAL VELOCITY at 25km altitude and staying in one piece. This one breaks up from losing control below 5km at supersonic speeds. Top speed and cruising altitude is fine though
  • Your plane can melt itself if left at full throttle. (Saftey feature if both pilots fell asleep) (-10 points) mach 3+ tends to do this.

Base scoring (Subject to change):

Max speed+(max distance/10)+((Max passengers*5)*1+(number of flight attendants/2))+Bonus points

1200+(10100km/10)+((80*5)*1+(2/2))+55=2666

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0eMT8zRijNmNEdEcnVxNU5UamM

Edited by 53miner53
Finished Testing!

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I really like that there's nothing about normal landing in the bonuses/penalties. Very Kerbal :).

With that out of the way, I present a deathtrap plane from HDAY airlines: HDAY 1. Proven to be "technically capable of landing", you can tell it's safe because the nose is painted in safety orange.
(How Desperate Are You airlines)

Score: 1704+679/10+4*5*1+2/2-70= 1723 (Light aircraft)

Spoiler

Bonus points:

  • Your plane cannot tailstrike no matter how hard you pull up on takeoff - sure it can.
  • Your plane stalls at less than 50m/s - it stalls at 150, maybe 200 m/s, so... -50 points or so?
  • Your plane does not need SAS to fly stably - it does not fly stably even with SAS on.
  • Your plane has four engines and can fly on two (20 points) - It has eight, but can fly on two. Eh, probably no points.
  • Your plane has four engines and can fly on one - No, one is not enough.
  • Your plane can belly land with all crew and passengers surviving - Nope.
  • Your plane can belly land without damage - Hah!
  • Your plane can ditch in the water with all crew surviving (10 points) - Crew - yes! 10 points! Passengers are a different story.
  • Your plane can ditch in the water with no damage - See above.
  • Your plane is an amphibious seaplane - It is probably safer on water, since it cannot take off from there.
  • Your plane can fly on any two engines. - No, not ANY two, but almost.
  • Simple fuel and air systems: your plane has all fuel tanks and air intakes in the same stack as an engine - Nope.

Point malus:

  • Your plane can lose controllability due to fuel shift (-20 points) - Nope. It has no controllability to begin with. So yes.
  • Your plane needs the end of the runway to take off (-20 points) - Nope. It can also take off from the side. So yes.
  • Your plane can break up due to aerodynamic forces - Haven't managed this one, and not for lack of trying.
  • Your plane can melt itself if left at full throttle. (Saftey feature if both pilots fell asleep) (-10 points) - Yes it can!
  • Your pilots do not have a clear view out the aircraft-I.E. windows are covered. (-10 points) - Well, the windows are not covered... does not help much though.
  • Your plane solely relies on alternators on the main engines for power - The rapiers have no alternators :(
  • Your plane contains an RTG (passengers don't want radioactive death leaking) (-20 points) - Why do I even have it?
  • Your plane needs all of it's engines to fly - Dodged this one!

Also, @Rath, based on your example calculation looks like there's a misplaced parenthesis in the score formula?

Max speed+(max distance/10)+((Max passengers*5)*(1+(number of flight attendants/2))+Bonus points

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I'll add you to the leaderboard once I can get to a computer.

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13 hours ago, TheEpicSquared said:

Would love a sig badge! 

Also, maybe you should add a rule that the planes have to stay in the atmosphere. Look at the post above this one for a reason. :wink: 

Actually, I like the idea of including suborbital spaceplanes.

The only requirement needed for a fair challenge would be to have ONLY airbreather engines to avoid entries like mine :) 

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