Rath

totm
Airliner Safety Challenge

128 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

I asked because rule 7 states "No Staging". Still, thanks.

 

Edit: Another question: Does a big increase in gliding time (and distance) count as "flying with 50% of the engines"?

Edited by Delay
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Challenge entry!

Craft file here:

http://tinyurl.com/leczsvj

No screenshots, but scoring attached.

80 passengers, 1 flight attendant, Super heavy

380 km range

1450 top speed, probably more, but at that point, things explode, and the plane is going to fast for intakes to be effective.

Spoiler

cannot tailstrike (20)
stall at less than 50 (5)
No SAS needed (20)
25% throttle (35)
belly land survival (20)
airbrakes (10)
water no damage (20)
amphibious seaplane (30)
takeoff-landing (20)
simple air/fuel systems (10)
melt at full throttle (-10)

bonus + malus totals to 180

In total, 2068.5. Feel free to experiment with the craft and disprove any bonuses or facts that I may have listed. (Mods include Mechjeb for control, OPT for wings, KSPI-E for radiators, and AirplanePlus for basically everything else.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

42 minutes ago, DaveTheFish said:

Challenge entry!

Craft file here:

http://tinyurl.com/leczsvj

No screenshots, but scoring attached.

80 passengers, 1 flight attendant, Super heavy

380 km range

1450 top speed, probably more, but at that point, things explode, and the plane is going to fast for intakes to be effective.

  Hide contents

cannot tailstrike (20)
stall at less than 50 (5)
No SAS needed (20)
25% throttle (35)
belly land survival (20)
airbrakes (10)
water no damage (20)
amphibious seaplane (30)
takeoff-landing (20)
simple air/fuel systems (10)
melt at full throttle (-10)

bonus + malus totals to 180

In total, 2068.5. Feel free to experiment with the craft and disprove any bonuses or facts that I may have listed. (Mods include Mechjeb for control, OPT for wings, KSPI-E for radiators, and AirplanePlus for basically everything else.)

Sorry, but you need screenshots for a submission.  I'd be fine with those mods, but I don't want to set a precedent of reviewing by craft download because then some bloke will come along with 47 mods and my thread will melt from the flames when I refuse to download a million mods to confirm submission.  Take screenshots using f1 or f12(if you bought from steam), and upload them to imgur (I use it because it's free and easy) or a similar hosting site to display them.

 

Also, the percentage is based on how many engines you can shut down, not the minimum throttle.  This makes you deal with asymmetric thrust and all that jazz.

Edited by Rath

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Rath said:

Sorry, but you need screenshots for a submission.

Oh, I'm sorry! I'll work on getting those screenshots. Meanwhile, moar maths as I subtract some points from my score.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, DaveTheFish said:

Oh, I'm sorry! I'll work on getting those screenshots. Meanwhile, moar maths as I subtract some points from my score.

Thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's my entry for the small category

mpbYDYx.jpg

And here is the final screenshot of the F3 menu

SLw0QMJ.jpg

So, let's start calculating! Once again, I'll add commentary and strikethrough those that do not apply

Bonus points:

  • Your plane cannot tailstrike no matter how hard you pull up on takeoff (20 points) Again, similar to my Konkorde, the Elevons weren't powerful enough to rotate the plane until you were going above take-off speed
  • Your plane stalls at less than 50m/s (5 points) I pushed it, and it lost control at around 35m/s
  • Your plane stalls at less than 30m/s (20 points)
  • Your plane stalls at less than 25m/s (30 points)
  • Your plane stalls at less than 20m/s (60 points)
  • Your plane does not need SAS to fly stably (20 points) Again, it needed some trim. The CoL is behind the CoM, so it naturally pitches down.
  • Your plane does not need trim adjustment to fly straight and level.  This only stacks with the non SAS points. (10 points)
  • Your plane can fly on 50% of its engines (20 points)
  • Your plane can fly on 66.6% of it's engines (5 points)
  • Your plane can fly on 33.3% of it's engines (30 points)
  • Your plane can fly on 25% of it's engines (35 points) I tested this by limiting the engines to 25% and seeing if it would fly. I just about limped away on 25% thrust.
  • Your plane can belly land with all crew and passengers surviving (20 points) It survived, although only the cabin made it. Everything else was torn off
  • Your plane can belly land without damage (40 points) Lol nope.
  • Your plane has airbrakes (10 points) The front canards and the elevons split to slow the plane down, but they're not true airbrakes
  • Your plane can ditch in the water with all crew surviving (10 points) As long as you are careful, you can drop it into the water with no damage, and take off again afterwards
  • Your plane can ditch in the water with no damage (20 points) See above
  • Your plane is a seaplane (20 points) See above
  • Your plane is an amphibious seaplane (10 points, stacks with above) See above
  • Your plane can take off and immediately land back on the runway without turning around, and is heavy size or above (10 points for large 20 points for super-heavy) N/A
  • Your plane has a way to jettison fuel without speeding up (10 points) Still can't find a way to do it!
  • Your plane can fly on any two engines.
  • Simple fuel and air systems: your plane has all fuel tanks and air intakes in the same stack as an engine (10 points) The fuel is all in the engines. The rear adapter is empty.

Point malus:

  • Your plane can lose controllability due to fuel shift (-20 points) Flying her until the tanks went dry, there were no adverse handling effects.
  • Your plane needs the end of the runway to take off (-20 points) I actually managed to land her back on the runway after take-off without turning around
  • Your plane can break up due to aerodynamic forces (-20 points) If you're going fast enough, and you're silly enough to make a hardover turn, it will shear the wings off
  • Your plane can melt itself if left at full throttle. (Saftey feature if both pilots fell asleep) (-10 points) I flew it on full power on the first range flight, and nothing blew up
  • Your pilots do not have a clear view out the aircraft-I.E. windows are covered. (-10 points) Clear view for the pilots
  • Your plane solely relies on alternators on the main engines for power (-10 points) There's a solar panel and a battery
  • Your plane contains an RTG or nerv engine (passengers don't want radioactive death leaking) (-20 points) No RTG's or nervs
  • Your plane needs all of it's engines to fly (-20 points) Annoyingly, if either engine fails, the moment is too strong for the twin tails to overcome, so you lose control

Max speed+(max distance/10)+((Max passengers*5)*1+(number of flight attendants/2))+Bonus points

1314+(727/10)+(16*5)*1+(1/2)+20+5+20+35+30+10-20-20=1586.7

Not a great run, but not a bad one either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

So I took another stab at this for the light category with the CANUKWorks Jackalope .... Only mod used was the dev version of pilot assistant since it took 4 and a half hours realtime for her to run out of fuel and I wasn't gonna babysit her flight path all afternoon

16 passengers, 5 flight attendants and 1 pilot who traveled due east for 20 171.7 km (a little over 3 times around Kerbin) ... I turned around when I had around 550 Lf  left in the tanks but didn't quite make it back to the KSC as planned, although I splashed down without experiencing any RUD's

Top speed was 1326m/s And she can fly on 2 of her 5 engines

BONUS POINTS
Your plane cannot tailstrike no matter how hard you pull up on takeoff (20 points)
Your plane does not need trim adjustment to fly straight and level.  This only stacks with the non SAS points. (10 points)
Your plane can fly on 50% of its engines (20 points)
Your plane has airbrakes (10 points)
Your plane can ditch in the water with all crew surviving (10 points)
Your plane can ditch in the water with no damage (20 points)
Your plane needs the end of the runway to take off (-20 points)
Your plane solely relies on alternators on the main engines for power (-10 points)
= 60

1326 + (20171.7 / 10) + (16 * 5) *1 + (5 / 2) + 60  = 1326 + 2017.1 + 80 + 2.5 + 60 = 3485.6

Here's the .craft file: https://kerbalx.com/DoctorDavinci/Jackalope

And here's the video:

 

Edited by DoctorDavinci

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Did you do 5.35 circumnavigations with that thing? How did you do that?

Edited by Delay
Typo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Delay said:

Did you do 5.35 circumnavigations with that thing? How did you do that?

No big deal--I did 10 in mine.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For my entry I didn't engineer for range or speed (or total score) but tried to get every bonus point and no deductions. When all the testing was done it managed around 2.5 circumnavigations and topped out at 1,432 m/s.

Here's my submission in the medium category, scored below: 

Bonus points:

  • Your plane cannot tailstrike no matter how hard you pull up on takeoff (20 points) (extra-large landing gear is almost flush with engines)
  • Your plane stalls at less than 20m/s (60 points) (with full flaps and little/no fuel I can fly straight at 20 m/s. Stall is higher (~30 m/s) with more fuel)
  • Your plane does not need SAS to fly stably (20 points) (at high speeds/altitudes it's almost easier to fly without SAS, particularly in roll)
  • Your plane does not need trim adjustment to fly straight and level.  This only stacks with the non SAS points. (10 points) (between 5,000 and 10,000 meters, trim is stable and altitude can be adjusted with throttle only and SAS turned off)
  • Your plane can fly on 25% of it's engines (35 points) (can easily take off with 3/4 engines disabled)
  • Your plane can belly land with all crew and passengers surviving (20 points)
  • Your plane can belly land without damage (40 points)
  • Your plane has airbrakes (10 points)
  • Your plane can ditch in the water with all crew surviving (10 points)
  • Your plane can ditch in the water with no damage (20 points)
  • Your plane is an amphibious seaplane (30 points) (can take off and land with full fuel both in water and on land)
  • Your plane can take off and immediately land back on the runway without turning around, and is heavy size or above (10 points for large 20 points for super-heavy) (can easily do this, but is only medium)
  • Your plane has a way to jettison fuel without speeding up (10 points) (I mounted 2 small engines radially, 180 degrees from each other on opposite sides of the fuselage below the wings. You can see them in the staging, if not the screenshot. Running these engines will spend fuel without changing speed)
  • Your plane can fly on any two engines. (I tested a lightly fueled airplane and was able to take off with only 2 engines, one on either side, with 14 disabled. Not sure if you picked the two engines on one extreme side if it would still be doable). 
  • Simple fuel and air systems: your plane has all fuel tanks and air intakes in the same stack as an engine (10 points)

Point malus: None! 

Score:

Max speed+(max distance/10)+((Max passengers*5)*1+(number of flight attendants/2))+Bonus points

1432+ (12,992/10) + (32*5) + (9/2) + 295 =1432 + 1299 + 160 + 4.5 + 295 = 3190.5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The OP will be updated soon.  I'm in mainland China ATM with no cellular so updates will be infrequent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

I said i wouldn't enter, but as it turns out i made a very safe plane. It's a light 3 kerbal two juno plane that has an abort function, and flies so stable that i turned on the engines (but not sas) and left for about 5 minutes and when i came back i found it flying at about 400 m above sea level. As far as i can tell, it doesn't stall. I turned off the engines and let it fall, but it kept gaining altitude until 70 m/s and didn't stall. it was going about 10 m/s when it hit water.It still hadn't stalled. I don't think i can tailstrike it either. 

Here it is with the engines off and me attempting a ditch.

Here it is after the sucessful ditch.

Here Halmore Kerman is climbing out of the hatch after i ejected the rear door. I might post more on the safety system later.

Anyway, there it is. 

EDIT: Replaced the docking port on the back with a parachute with two command seats attached.

Edited by ShadowGoat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I grabbed an old plane of mine and swapped the 2xWhiplash with 2xWheesley.  The damn thing went 73,939km.  I set it up on autopilot before i went to bed and it was still going when i woke up.  It crashed sometime while i was at work, so i'm going to assume 73,939km is the max range. 

 

About my KSP install:

I'm using FAR, MechJeb, Autopilot

I'm running KSP 1.1.3

The plane itself is stock

 

351+(73939/10)+(2*5)+((20+10+20+20+10+10+20)-10) = 7854.9

Your plane does not need SAS to fly stably (20 points)
Your plane does not need trim adjustment to fly straight and level.  This only stacks with the non SAS points. (10 points)
Your plane can fly on 50% of its engines (20 points)
Your plane can belly land with all crew and passengers surviving (20 points)
Your plane has airbrakes (10 points)
 Your plane can ditch in the water with all crew surviving (10 points)
Your plane can ditch in the water with no damage (20 points)

Malus
Your plane solely relies on alternators on the main engines for power (-10 points)

 

9ypMbv8.jpg

rNA6k01.jpg

6yTtQok.jpg

n3LUg11.jpg

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can't trust the F3 screen for your distance--3:05:34:36 (your MET) at 351m/s (your max speed) comes out to a bit under 30,000km.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

sorry nevermind i uploaded a plane but i didn't want it

btw how do I delete a post

Edited by mabdi36

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Craft file at https://www.dropbox.com/s/xh5b9lz5hrcs1sq/Seatourist Safety.craft?dl=0

That's a heavy class entry (2 pilots, 2 flight crew, 48 passengers) with points for:

No tailstrike 20

No SAS or trim 30

Can fly on two of three engines 5

Airbrakes 10

Water landing 20

Amphibious Seaplane 30

Immediate landing 10

Can fly on any two engines ?

No malus (there's a fuel cell hidden in the nose, put some oxidiser in the tail tank if you want to use it)

Not sure what you mean by stall; about 60m/s is the lowest sustained level flight speed, but it can drop well below that while descending without falling out of the sky

Base score is 631 + (3966/10) + ((48*5)*2) + 125 + ?

Score of 1,632 if I've got it right

Edited by Wanderfound
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, zolotiyeruki said:

You can't trust the F3 screen for your distance--3:05:34:36 (your MET) at 351m/s (your max speed) comes out to a bit under 30,000km.

351m/s is air speed, not ground speed. 

 

Besides, several people have already used the f3 screen to calculate distance traveled for this challenge.  If you feel the F3 screen puts you at a disadvantage then go download an autopilot mod and leave your plane going overnight.  If you do a lot better with the F3 numbers you should re-post results.  Plus, you have a cool looking plane, i don't think any of us would mind seeing more screenshots :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, CalmLlama said:

351m/s is air speed, not ground speed. 

 

Besides, several people have already used the f3 screen to calculate distance traveled for this challenge.  If you feel the F3 screen puts you at a disadvantage then go download an autopilot mod and leave your plane going overnight.  If you do a lot better with the F3 numbers you should re-post results.  Plus, you have a cool looking plane, i don't think any of us would mind seeing more screenshots :)

I was figuring range by dividing m/s speed in level flight by fuel consumption to get metres per unit of fuel, then multiplying that by fuel capacity. How would you prefer range to be figured?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can I use tweakscale?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, CalmLlama said:

351m/s is air speed, not ground speed. 

 

Besides, several people have already used the f3 screen to calculate distance traveled for this challenge.  If you feel the F3 screen puts you at a disadvantage then go download an autopilot mod and leave your plane going overnight.  If you do a lot better with the F3 numbers you should re-post results.  Plus, you have a cool looking plane, i don't think any of us would mind seeing more screenshots :)

And there's no wind on Kerbin (unless something has changed?), so airspeed = ground speed :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, zolotiyeruki said:

And there's no wind on Kerbin (unless something has changed?), so airspeed = ground speed :)

So a 1400m/s vertical dive means i am going 1400 horizontal meters every second too?

 

If you really want to get your math on, check out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vector_sum

 

For those of us who don't want to find the real time upward and downward movement of our aircraft, i think we should use the F3 window.  Even if its not 100% accurate, we will all be using the same scale. 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, CalmLlama said:

So a 1400m/s vertical dive means i am going 1400 horizontal meters every second too?

 

If you really want to get your math on, check out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vector_sum

 

For those of us who don't want to find the real time upward and downward movement of our aircraft, i think we should use the F3 window.  Even if its not 100% accurate, we will all be using the same scale. 

If you're going 30,000 km, I imagine there's not a whole lot of up-and-down going on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's definitely not following the spirit of the rules, but I think I have an entry that literally cannot be beat.  May I present the Cygnus B:

Imgur Album

Scoring:

On 3/18/2017 at 6:45 AM, Rath said:

Scoring:

Bonus points:

  • [...]
  • Your plane stalls at less than 30m/s (20 points) - The actual stall speed may be lower (takeoff speed is only 26 m/s), but she isn't all that stable and you can't easily throttle the engines without going into a spin, so I can't say for sure.
  • [...]
  • Your plane can belly land with all crew and passengers surviving (20 points) - at 26 m/s, the crewed parts survive just fine.  Prop strikes are a different matter...
  • [...]
  • Your plane can ditch in the water with all crew surviving (10 points) - Crew, yes.  FPS, no.  
  • [...]
  • Your plane can fly on any two engines. - It only has two engines.  

Point malus:

  • [...]
  • Your plane can break up due to aerodynamic forces (-20 points)
  • [...]
  • Your plane contains an RTG or nerv engine (passengers don't want radioactive death leaking) (-20 points) - It contains about 30.  I'm not sure if this is per RTG or in total, but it doesn't really matter with the score anyways.  
  • Your plane needs all of it's engines to fly (-20 points) - If she loses as much as a prop blade, she drops out of the sky.  

Base scoring (Subject to change):

Max speed+(max distance/10)+((Max passengers*5)*1+(number of flight attendants/2))+Bonus points

 

The maximum speed I took her to without crashing was 34 m/s.  She can go faster, but it's hard to recover from the dive without stalling out and I honestly didn't bother trying.  Range is infinite, since RTGs last forever and the engines run on electricity.  There are 2 passengers.  There are no flight attendants.  Total bonus points is either -10 or something around -600. 

 

Final score is 34+(∞/10)+(2/5)*1+(0/2)-10 = ∞

Category is light.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/19/2017 at 11:02 PM, Charlie_Zulu said:

 

Final score is 34+(∞/10)+(2/5)*1+(0/2)-10 = ∞

Category is light.  

Range may be theoretically infinite, but how far have you or an autopilot actually flown?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, proteasome said:

Range may be theoretically infinite, but how far have you or an autopilot actually flown?

I don't see a requirement to have actually flown it for the maximum range.  @Rath suggests flying it until it crashes and then using F3 to check, but again, this thing should never crash.  There is no change in performance over time, and I've flown it for ~20 minutes or more wanting to make sure that it was actually capable of sustained flight and didn't wiggle itself apart.  Since the plane can keep flying, it'll only crash when I stop paying attention and it starts to pick up some bank and crashes into the ocean.  That's a test of my own willingness to waste a few days of time when I could be doing something better as opposed to the capabilities of the aircraft.  

Edited by Charlie_Zulu
2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now