KSP Weekly: The art of making missions

[ktmemp]

2 hours ago, Kerbart said:

Have you read the forum? Judging the forum most players apparently can't afford the expansion even at $10. How would they be able to buy it at a "full retail price" of $60-$100?

Add to it, that developing a new version of the game, based on how you describe it, from scratch will likely take 2-3 years. Now maybe this is were all the programmers that left KSP went to—Squad is developing KSP2 in secret—but more likely is that it's not happening. 

Third, the appeal of KSP is its concept. Sticking closer to real world physics than practically any other game (even in its genre), the ability to be used as a learning tool, and as in inspiration. I'm not sure how much more "better graphics" would expand the KSP userbase. It's not bad to begin with, and being "perfect" won't make it sell better.

I think that the majority of ksp players are in financial condition to give $ 10 to the game but for new game not this game or dlc.Maybe the game will take 2 years to develop but do you still want to play this game in 2020?

After the 1.2.2 patch, most of the problems were resolved(crash bugs).We need something new and fresh.No reason to play after 10 years.We see too much game with bad gameplay good graphics.If ksp looks good more player notice and buy game.Maybe I'm wrong but this is my opinion.

Edited April 8, 2017 by ktmemp

[klgraham1013]

@ktmemp Sorry.  I still play games from the 90s.  Thank you, GOG.com.

Despite that, visuals do matter.  Anyone who says otherwise is lying to themselves.  Art, sound, gameplay all contribute to what make a game great.   They aren't a pie graph.  One doesn't take away from another.  They are all additive to a great experience.

All that being said.  If KSP2 never happens, I'm pretty sure I'll be playing KSP1 on a Win Box emulator when I'm 80.

Edited April 8, 2017 by klgraham1013

[HafCoJoe]

5 hours ago, pellinor said:

while we're talking music:

 

That is amazing... first time I've heard of it too. Thanks for linking it @pellinor

[Waxing_Kibbous]

I'd rather see the planets and moons, as well as the overall environment, get better visuals before anything else. Having the view be awe-inspiring and the feel like you are out in space or another world is a huge part of what makes this game awesome.

[Mad Rocket Scientist]

22 hours ago, passinglurker said:

Good to hear I look forward to the results, but could we trouble you to give a polish pass or replacement to the stock 3.75m parts that you will no doubt use(rhino engine and kerbodyne fuel tanks) for the Saturn IVB stage of Saturn V? They were originally implemented in early access as place holders and it shows they were UV mapped inefficiently and weren't given the pixel density needed to look good against modern parts. It would be tragic if they clashed with or held back the quality of such an iconic rocket as the Saturn V.

If they are introducing 1.875m parts, there may also be 5m parts. 5m parts would fit with the mk1-2 command pod as an Apollo CM the best. 

[Benjamin Kerman]

I'm placing my bets on 5m parts too.

[Acea]

5 hours ago, Mad Rocket Scientist said:

If they are introducing 1.875m parts, there may also be 5m parts. 5m parts would fit with the mk1-2 command pod as an Apollo CM the best. 

I'm sure there will be, referring to this they revealed last week

[Mad Rocket Scientist]

20 minutes ago, Acea said:

I'm sure there will be, referring to this they revealed last week

Oh, thanks. I either missed that or forgot about it.

[passinglurker]

7 hours ago, Mad Rocket Scientist said:

If they are introducing 1.875m parts, there may also be 5m parts. 5m parts would fit with the mk1-2 command pod as an Apollo CM the best. 

That's a bit troubling if you ask me the mk1-2 pod is very old and hasn't kept up with the times. I'm assuming Squad plans to leverage thier existing parts to help recreate Saturn because @RoverDude has talked up how well the saturn parts match up with the 3.75m parts why else would squad tell RD to hold back his talent and make parts that play along with former-intern Hugo's for lack of a better word poorly made 3.75m parts? Surely if they were making Saturn out of entirely DLC exclusive parts or taking the opportunity to update thier old parts they wouldn't need to do this.

Anyway I'm starting to drift off subject the point is if Squad's gonna use parts we already have to make Saturn from the Saturn IVB stage on up (not counting LEM) it's gonna look a really mismatched like any kerbal rocket and unlike the real thing. This ties us back to why we've been begging for a rocket overhaul since practically the start of the spaceplane overhaul. Now if Squad doesn't want us to cap off our saturn's with a tower of mismatched old clashing styles then following parts would either need a visual update in the stock game or would need to be replaced by DLC exclusive content. (the stuff marked new doesn't need replacement it's just marked for reference)

 

Edited April 9, 2017 by passinglurker

[Capt. Hunt]

It's not like the 3.75 meter parts are that "old" or "out of date."  They were only added in the .23.5 "A.R.M." patch, which IIRC was the last big part update before launch.  They're also specifically designed to emulate SLS parts as part of the NASA collaboration for that update.

 

Besides, there's already a couple of Saturn part pack mods if you really have to have the authentic S-IVB stack on your Saturn.  Also the Rhino engine is already based on the J-2 used in the S-IVB.

Edited April 9, 2017 by Capt. Hunt

[passinglurker]

4 minutes ago, Capt. Hunt said:

It's not like the 3.75 meter parts are that "old" or "out of date."  They were only added in the .24 "A.R.M." patch, which IIRC was the last big part update before launch.  They're also specifically designed to emulate SLS parts as part of the NASA collaboration for that update.

 

Besides, there's already a couple of Saturn part pack mods if you really have to have the authentic S-IVB stack on your Saturn.

You're right relatively speaking the 3.75m are some of our most recent additions to the rocket parts which only makes it all the more sad that they were made by the most inexperienced and amateur artist squad ever employed, an intern. They get by at a distance on their pallet, but when you get close it becomes apparent that they don't have the pixel density of other parts their size and the meshes are jaringly jagged and low poly looking.

And even if we accept the idea that the 3.75m parts are good enough cause they can pass at a distance the rest of the stack on up is still pretty ramshackle looking with the old rockomax parts for the command and service modules.

Finally if there is any value in what roverdude keeps saying about stock maintaining dlc forever then I would want the dlc I buy to at least rival what I can find from a mod at the time of release otherwise I may start to think my money is better spent on donating to modders to encourage them to continue their work than it is buying dlc that cuts corners.

[RoverDude]

6 hours ago, passinglurker said:

which only makes it all the more sad that they were made by the most inexperienced and amateur artist squad ever employed, an intern.

I am not even sure Hugo made those parts.  Regardless, the personal attacks on someone who's not even here to defend himself are uncalled for.

 

Edited April 9, 2017 by RoverDude

[basic.syntax]

I started KSP with v0.23.5, when the NASA parts were released. They are a now-iconic part of KSP, though I think the main "problem" is that the style of something that was designed in consultation with NASA to resemble the SLS parts, doesn't mesh well with the style of parts released before. I am hopeful that some day they WILL get around to an "art pass" on the older parts, though I am happy to smile at repurposed oil drums. Just because there is no statement about continuing with (or starting over) what Porkjet was doing just before he left, does not mean texturing upgrades will never happen.  Getting the expansion out the door is going to take priority, and if enough people buy it, then Squad will have just that extra bit of confidence to keep improving KSP.

Like they have been doing, for quite a while now.

[Wallygator]

On 08/04/2017 at 0:40 AM, SQUAD said:

The art department has also been busy with the expansion either working on some of the new American parts

And this is because? Oh sorry, everything seems to be an american part these days.

What about the other pioneering entities of space exploration? - CCCP comes to mind.

You hinted at this very early on - any reason you have not produced additional updates of teaser pics? I think I only saw an R7-esq tapered side booster...  not good enough.  How about more nationally agnostic elemental parts as well as the few 'honorary'  national capsules and components.  In other words, give us parts and textures for us to build what we want, not just a complete S1C tank with all the trimmings. Grrr.

KSP parts seem clearly focused on a very narrow segment of the past. Whilst today, considering your 'global-local-isation' strategy makes it appear that you are assuming everyone wants american-style parts,  one would think it highly likely that our fellow Chinese and Russian KSP users (a major segment of your global marketing dreams?) would very much like to see a vostok/soyuz/progress/shenzhou homage included, in equal standing - not to mention our European comrades and their lovely launchers. (let us assume you have a marketing department that deep thinks about these things)

@SQUAD might consider some targeted communication (and action) relating to this - make it happen - show us you plan! (oh sorry maybe that's still private...)

Otherwise, we should expect a mission builder DLC that lets us plan missions with a continuing american-style parts bias. (Queue theme to opening credits of the 1970s "Love American Style" sitcom just prior to its ratings plummet)

"Making History"? I think not, seems more like "Ignoring History" at the moment.  You can change that.

[stibbons]

9 minutes ago, Wallygator said:

What about the other pioneering entities of space exploration? - CCCP comes to mind.

You hinted at this very early on - any reason you have not produced additional updates of teaser pics?

Gosh, it's almost like they've decided to only work on one set of parts at a time. Those monsters.

[basic.syntax]

They are discussing that progress was made on American style parts... this week. Doesn't mean Russian-style parts are not happening - From the announcement

Quote

Kerbal Space Program: Making History Expansion will have additional parts such as new fuel tanks, adapters, decouplers, fairings and command pods… inspired by both American and Soviet space programs!

 

[Wallygator]

Just now, stibbons said:

Gosh, it's almost like they've decided to only work on one set of parts at a time. Those monsters.

They can work on it in any order they want, but they could also let people know what is actually in the queue.

[stibbons]

Just now, Wallygator said:

They can work on it in any order they want, but they could also let people know what is actually in the queue.

They did. And called it a KSP Weekly. You could try reading it to find out what they're working on.

But as for what's coming next, you're just as entitled to know that as you've always been.

[Kerbart]

14 hours ago, ktmemp said:

Maybe the game will take 2 years to develop but do you still want to play this game in 2020?

(...) We need something new and fresh.No reason to play after 10 years.We see too much game with bad gameplay good graphics.If ksp looks good more player notice and buy game.Maybe I'm wrong but this is my opinion.

Everyone likes better graphics. But there's also the reality of software developers going out of business because they decide to rewrite their core product from scratch, effectively removing themselves from the market for a couple of years and no longer being relevant with the new (and disappointing) product, while competitors who stuck to improving existing products rose to market leaders.

For Squad and to a lesser extend for us, the question remains:

• How relevant are great looking graphics, arguably at the expense of gameplay (because you can spend your programming resources only once). *Cough* Minecraft.
• How much extra sales will better graphics produce?
• How much extra sales will high quality DLC produce (yes, high quality. Because if it's not, the story is over after two releases)

Keep in mind that running a business, while requiring to be bold and innovative, isn't like a video game where you can restart after learning you went down the wrong path. That makes betting the boat on KSP 2 less intuitive than one would think at first.

[klgraham1013]

3 hours ago, RoverDude said:

I am not even sure Hugo made those parts.  Regardless, the personal attacks on someone who's not even here to defend himself are uncalled for.

Also, I can't seem to find an example of your own modeling work - I look forward to seeing it.

People can have valid opinions on a subject even if they aren't personally involved in the subject themselves.  

I can't disregard someone's opinion about my music simply because they've never played an instrument.  That's not how things work.

Edited April 9, 2017 by klgraham1013

[LoSBoL]

3 hours ago, Wallygator said:

They can work on it in any order they want, but they could also let people know what is actually in the queue.

"Now Squad reveal their latest mystery

The expansion named “Making History”

We’ll roleplay the Soviets, Americans too

Don’t worry China, we’ll get round to you."

 

 

 

[Majorjim!]

4 hours ago, passinglurker said:

I may start to think my money is better spent on donating to modders to encourage them to continue their work than it is buying dlc that cuts corners.

This.

DLCs will not be stock so they may as well be paid for mods. Given that, the work must be A grade.

3 hours ago, RoverDude said:

I can't seem to find an example of your own modeling work - I look forward to seeing it.

He doesn't need to.. He is a paying customer and as such is well within his rights to question a sub standard product or part thereof.

Edited April 9, 2017 by Majorjim!

[stibbons]

22 minutes ago, Majorjim! said:

He is a paying customer and as such is well within his rights to question a sub standard product or part thereof.

There's no part of "paying customer" that entitles one to dish out baseless personal insults.

There's also no part of "paying customer" that qualifies one for an opinion on "sub standard", but that's hardly the point.

[DMagic]

5 hours ago, RoverDude said:

I am not even sure Hugo made those parts.  Regardless, the personal attacks on someone who's not even here to defend himself are uncalled for.

I think it was C7 who made those parts. All I remember from Hugo were some spaceplane parts that I don't think were used.

5 hours ago, RoverDude said:

Also, I can't seem to find an example of your own modeling work - I look forward to seeing it.

Personal attacks aside, this has always been a poor argument. Being able to criticize something does not require being able to create that same thing yourself.

[Acea]

5 hours ago, Wallygator said:

You hinted at this very early on - any reason you have not produced additional updates of teaser pics? I think I only saw an R7-esq tapered side booster...  not good enough.  How about more nationally agnostic elemental parts as well as the few 'honorary'  national capsules and components.  In other words, give us parts and textures for us to build what we want, not just a complete S1C tank with all the trimmings. Grrr.

KSP parts seem clearly focused on a very narrow segment of the past. Whilst today, considering your 'global-local-isation' strategy makes it appear that you are assuming everyone wants american-style parts,  one would think it highly likely that our fellow Chinese and Russian KSP users (a major segment of your global marketing dreams?) would very much like to see a vostok/soyuz/progress/shenzhou homage included, in equal standing - not to mention our European comrades and their lovely launchers. (let us assume you have a marketing department that deep thinks about these things)

@SQUAD might consider some targeted communication (and action) relating to this - make it happen - show us you plan! (oh sorry maybe that's still private...)

(From March 18 KSP Weekly)...

Plus mission creation and historical flights

That we can share, and play through the nights

Vostok, Gemini, Apollo and more

Crafted by Roverdude, so no eyesores

...

(From March 25 KSP Weekly)

Now Squad reveal their latest mystery

The expansion named “Making History”

We’ll roleplay the Soviets, Americans too

Don’t worry China, we’ll get round to you.

 

I don't know if that's enough but everything takes steps, including this one.