PARADOX solving.

[Orion Kerman]

Paradox 1.)    Can you prove to me the universe wasn't created on 14th April 2017 at 7:00 this morning.

When this universe was created this morning everything was placed as it is and everything was given a memory to make a memory of what happend to make you think it wasn't created this morning.

Paradox 2.) On page 4

Paradox 3 on page 4

 

Edited April 15, 2017 by Orion Kerman

[Orion Kerman]

@The Raging Sandwich you must comment to answer... No cheating!!!

 

[0111narwhalz]

Of course I can't! You've structured the question such that there is no question! Anything I could bring up would be struck down as "it was created like that."

[Orion Kerman]

Just now, 0111narwhalz said:

Of course I can't! You've structured the question such that there is no question! Anything I could bring up would be struck down as "it was created like that."

Exactly!!! I bet no one on the forums could do it.

[0111narwhalz]

Just now, Orion Kerman said:

Exactly!!! I bet no one on the forums could do it.

As most of us are scientists (at least in ideology, sometimes in career) here, I don't think I'll take you up on that.

[UnusualAttitude]

Cogito ergo sum.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Then, let's talk. 

[Orion Kerman]

Just now, UnusualAttitude said:

Cogito ergo sum.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Then, let's talk. 

But the real question is can you prove it wrong because there is no evidence to say my thought is wrong. Except it's just an annoying question.

 

[Bill Phil]

Russell's Teapot. It has no real consequence if it was true...

Then Occam's Razor. Simplest explanation. It wasn't. Not proof, but you're not going to get any with a questions such as that. Generally, real science is something that can be disproved. A single eclipse was capable of disproving one of Einstein's theories/hypotheses. It must be disprovable.

[sevenperforce]

1 hour ago, Orion Kerman said:

Can you prove to me the universe wasn't created on 14th April 2017 at 7:00 this morning.

When this universe was created this morning everything was placed as it is and everything was given a memory to make a memory of what happend to make you think it wasn't created this morning.

Bet you can't!!!

I presume you've been reading Russell?

But yes, I can prove this easily. And not with semantics; with physics. What do I win when I do it?

[Orion Kerman]

Just now, sevenperforce said:

I presume you've been reading Russell?

But yes, I can prove this easily. And not with semantics; with physics. What do I win when I do it?

Respect??? I don't know.

What do you want??

[UnusualAttitude]

Just now, Orion Kerman said:

But the real question is can you prove it wrong because there is no evidence to say my thought is wrong. Except it's just an annoying question.

There is plenty, if we stick to the scientifically accepted definition of "evidence": radiocarbon dating, Uranium lead dating, redshift, cosmic background radiation, the lascaux caves, the pyramids... the list goes on.

If we don't stick to the accepted version of "evidence" then your "annoying question" is just belief. 

Please provide an alternative explanation for any of the above.

I'm waiting. 

 

 

 

[Orion Kerman]

Just now, UnusualAttitude said:

There is plenty, if we stick to the scientifically accepted definition of "evidence": radiocarbon dating, Uranium lead dating, redshift, cosmic background radiation, the lascaux caves, the pyramids... the list goes on.

If we don't stick to the accepted version of "evidence" then your "annoying question" is just belief. 

Please provide an alternative explanation for any of the above.

I'm waiting. 

 

 

 

It was created that way to make people think it wasn't created then.

Also i don't believe it i encountered it.

[UnusualAttitude]

15 minutes ago, Orion Kerman said:

It was created that way to make people think it wasn't created then.

What? Some dude went around tampering with every single zircon crystal in the Earth's crust? Before 7am in the morning? 

I'm still waiting. 

Edited April 15, 2017 by UnusualAttitude

[magnemoe]

30 minutes ago, Bill Phil said:

Russell's Teapot. It has no real consequence if it was true...

Then Occam's Razor. Simplest explanation. It wasn't. Not proof, but you're not going to get any with a questions such as that. Generally, real science is something that can be disproved. A single eclipse was capable of disproving one of Einstein's theories/hypotheses. It must be disprovable.

This, also setting this up would be mindbogglingly idiotic complex.
Take an complex game like Skyrim or Fallout 4, (KSP for that sake but lacks an editor to easy do that I'm about to do)
Now play for say 100 hours, or try to make an mod where you start an new character where it looks like you have played for 100 hours and make your mod so an experienced player will not notice any difference, yes this will take far longer than 100 hours. 

Create the world yesterday would face much as the same issues but in an somewhat larger degree  
Big bang is easy just getting the overall system right. 
Earth created 6000 years ago would also be way easier, yes you has to add lots of stuff including fossils and living creatures, but you don't have to deal with memories and data logs. 

[Kerbinchaser]

Radio telescopes. 

*duh*

[DoctorDavinci]

This thread stinks of circular reasoning ... The Bog of Eternal Stench 

[sevenperforce]

1 hour ago, Orion Kerman said:

Respect??? I don't know.

What do you want??

Oh, I don't actually want anything; that was a joke because you were making it seem like a contest. 

Anyhow there are two fairly elegant proofs, both from physics. The first has to deal with the relativity of simultaneity. Seven minutes ago (or seven hours ago, or whatever period you fancy) is defined relative to your location, your local gravitational potential, and your instantaneous velocity. However, what was seven minutes ago for you was not the same for the rest of the universe. In fact, you are under centripetal acceleration in at least three different reference frames, so the time you describe is not even part of your present reference frame any more.

There is no way the entire universe could have been created at once this morning because there is no reference frame in which this morning is a universally consistent value. There is no universal reference frame. 

The second proof is even more elegant/profound, but that's enough for now.  

[YNM]

If the universe was created this morning, we'd see no other stars tonight (if you do, see whether the world would burn up in a few days - if not then it wasn't a particular morning). And I'd have woke up with my sight only ever increasingly far away - which, for most, I remember it wasn't. Also the sun didn't blink into existence a few moments after I woke up. Also, for fun, it's 15th April 2017 "morning" here already by the time I write/edit this post ;-)

Either that or I won't exist here, casually typing a respond to a question so questionable it deserves further studies of human mind questioning. (it wasn't that serene though - the wi-fi glitched slightly. normal down here)

Edited April 15, 2017 by YNM

[The Raging Sandwich]

I'm pretty sure anyone regardless of their scientific or religious viewpoints would disagree with ya there, pal, and as @0111narwhalz said...

[tater]

No need to prove anything wrong. If you want to make a positive claim, do so, then demonstrate the claim. Your claim is not held to be true until demonstrated. 

Until then, we use the evidence at hand, and make a model that explains it.

If your model includes all of MY model, then adds an extra step (that it was all a lie created yesterday), then your model is needlessly complex, and not as good as mine that dispenses with the undemonstrated "yesterday" nonsense.

Edited April 15, 2017 by tater

[WinkAllKerb'']

1 hour ago, YNM said:

studies --- wi-fi 

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acouphène

so what the closer i am to many electrical device the stronger they are, still even in the street i have some also it may vary depdending the people i corss the road

let do the simple version:

the fact your eyes don't see phone comunication doesn't mean they doesn't float in the air .... the phone can see the communication floating in the air ... so what's a phone, some oscilloscope ... what's a brain ?

now we could eventually talk of emotive signature of whatever said and typed thing across the network on the dtmf ntmf principle ... gonna be fun

1 hour ago, The Raging Sandwich said:

1 hour ago, The Raging Sandwich said:

I'm pretty sure anyone regardless of their scientific or religious viewpoints would disagree with ya there, pal, and as @0111narwhalz said...

... as well we found the graal not that's a trap ...

wi fi and human mind studies ? the point with the topics ?

Edited April 15, 2017 by WinkAllKerb''

[kerbiloid]

5 hours ago, Orion Kerman said:

Can you prove to me the universe wasn't created on 14th April 2017 at 7:00 this morning.

We just have to see the forums history.

5 hours ago, Orion Kerman said:

Bet you can't!!!

Can't what? If the Universe has been created, the time has been created at once. So, yes, the Universe and the 14 Apr 7:00 appeared simultaneously.

(Btw timezone is not clear)

[Human Person]

This is for real!

Step one:

Measure the speed of light 

step Two:

Take a Telescope and look at stuff more than 1.3 * 10^10 km away (thats aproxx. half a light-day). 

What you see is rhe past, precisely you see what existed 1 day or longer ago. Omg, it"s the universe

*Drops the telescope*

Edited April 15, 2017 by Physics Student

[Green Baron]

8 hours ago, Orion Kerman said:

Can you prove to me the universe wasn't created on 14th April 2017 at 7:00 this morning.

When this universe was created this morning everything was placed as it is and everything was given a memory to make a memory of what happend to make you think it wasn't created this morning.

Bet you can't!!!

7 o'clock where ?

*sigh*, children aged 7 usually ask these questions. What has this to do with Science or Spaceflight ?

You deny all that natural science found out. If you are not willing to accept the work of honest people of hundreds thousands of years then why ask ? I strongly assume political / religious reasons ?

Edit: Let go of the idea that the universe was "created" and you will understand a lot more.

Edited April 15, 2017 by Green Baron

[Shadow Wolf56]

Um...

well I guess proof is that I remember living(I did stuff) the moment a few weeks ago?