Mobile APP?

[ATEC]

I think it would be nice to have an app with the features of the map screen:

- So you can plan your trajectories (and see the dV) 
- So you can see all of your vehicles (like in the tracking station)
- When you press fly, it will focus on that vehicle and make you able to plan burns

What do you guys think about this??
I hope some admin/squad dev will notice this as a good idea ofc!

[Regor]

Tru dat.

[steve_v]

29 minutes ago, ATEC said:

I think it would be nice to have an app with the features of the map screen

I'd say an in-game plugin that serves up a webpage would be a better plan, it'd work on all platforms and be far less work than an "app".
Adding some features to Telemachus might be a good place to start.

[AlamoVampire]

for what this is worth, and this is my opinion only: I think, I honestly think that Squad should focus on getting this game as polished and as stable on all platforms as possible. While this sort of thing is a neat idea, I think there are things that are or at least should be a higher priority. Perhaps down the road, around a year from now <conservative guess ofc> perhaps. But for now? Id say they should focus on an art pass for example, as, well, the more time that passes the  more disjointed the parts become. again, my opinion only.

[steve_v]

1 hour ago, AlamoVampire said:

While this sort of thing is a neat idea, I think there are things that are or at least should be a higher priority.

Much agree, hence the suggestion that it be worked into a(n existing) mod...
Supporting (at least 3, to be fair) mobile apps is not something that I'd see as a priority, now or ever TBH.
And besides, this "app for everything" craze annoys me - if it can be done well in a web-browser, do it in a web-browser.

[Mad_Scientist]

I would love to have an app with just functionality of building ships (like VAB planner). I think it should be not a hard thing to implement, ksp is made in unity, which is multiplatform engine. Cut off all the physics, leave just snap part together functionality. And KER

[Archgeek]

9 hours ago, Mad_Scientist said:

I would love to have an app with just functionality of building ships (like VAB planner). I think it should be not a hard thing to implement, ksp is made in unity, which is multiplatform engine. Cut off all the physics, leave just snap part together functionality. And KER

...Can you imagine the complete madness of trying to operate the VAB on a touchscreen?  Various gestures like pinching and turning would help, a lot, but I'd be driven to insanity trying to use such a thing.  The VAB already controls best on a 3d mouse with a keyboard, and most of us already make do with just a normal mouse and keyboard.  Trying to do precision placement and rotation on a touchscreen sounds like a pretty doomed endeavour.

[klesh]

I happen to know a recently out-of-work mobile app developer/porting company they could use.

[GKSP]

My advice: dont use an app.   they are hard to use on different platforms and you need to pay a fee to get them on an appstore.  Websites are better because you do not need to download them and they work on most platforms.

[FungusForge]

6 hours ago, GKSP said:

My advice: dont use an app.   they are hard to use on different platforms and you need to pay a fee to get them on an appstore.  Websites are better because you do not need to download them and they work on most platforms.

Wouldn't that leave out consoles? Outside of having a laptop or tablet that can behave like a laptop, this wouldn't really work for console players. Even then that loses the convenience on PC, doubly so for those who play fullscreen. Why would I bother opening a webpage to access an in-game function while I'm playing the game? In fact, why would you bother with a website at all? A website would need an internet connection to function, which might not be happy for the servers, and would mean those who play KSP without consistent/constant internet connection wouldn't be able to make use of it. You'd be better of making a program that's downloaded for the function, so constant internet connection isn't required. But if you've developed such a program, may as well port it to be a mobile app since it would work for console and PC, and save them the trouble of switching screens.

I personally think an app is a great idea, since its basically Fallout's Pipboy app, but for KSP. And with considerably less sibling trolling potential.

Edited April 20, 2017 by FungusForge
demangled sentences

[steve_v]

2 hours ago, FungusForge said:

Wouldn't that leave out consoles?  Outside of having a laptop or tablet that can behave like a laptop, this wouldn't really work for console players.

Dunno, consoles have web browsers, right? If they don't, that's just plain silly.
I don't get the "behave like a laptop" bit either TBH, tablets also have web browsers, do they not?

Quote

Even then that loses the convenience on PC, doubly so for those who play fullscreen. Why would I bother opening a webpage to access an in-game function while I'm playing the game? An app however, would work for both PC and console, and be convenient for both since it would save them the trouble of switching screens.

Eh, whut? What's the difference between switching away from KSP to another app (custom) and switching away from KSP to another app (web browser)?
Running it on the same system isn't the point anyway (though if it was a web app you could if you wanted to).

Quote

An app however, would work for both PC and console

And require at least twice as much development time. So that's a native app for each phone / tablet OS (>=3) + a native app for each supported console (>=2) + a native app for each supported PC OS (3)... That's at least 8 apps to develop and test, versus one web application.

Quote

A website would need an internet connection to function, which might not be happy for the servers, and would mean those who play KSP without consistent/constant internet connection wouldn't be able to make use of it. You'd be better of making a program that's downloaded for the function, so constant internet connection isn't required.

So write it in HTML5, which can run offline. Whatever you use, it's going to need a connection at some point for access to your save and / or a running copy of KSP, in order to actually do anything.
We're talking about a mobile app here anyway, how useful is your phone with no network connection?
Writing it as a web application means it will work anywhere, without horsing around with umpteen different builds.

Alternatively, Telemachus embeds a webserver into KSP as a plugin already, why not conserve development effort and just extend that?
Yes, you would have to leave KSP running somewhere (and have some technical nous to forward the port if you want access from outside your LAN), but you could connect to it and do stuff in near-realtime from anywhere you have a 'net connection.

Developing separate apps for all the platforms people will want is pure madness, and the time would be better spent improving the game.

Either I'm missing your point entirely, you think web browsers only exist on PCs, or you have a serious misconception as to what an "app" actually is... I dunno.

Edited April 20, 2017 by steve_v
Why does splitting quotes have to be such a pain in this POS editor?

[Kerbal-Willie]

I'm finding 'Helper for KSP' & 'KSP Orbicalc' andriod apps very useful  for me while I play on console. Something like OP suggested would be very nice, but I also agree something like that should come after all the work being put into KSP now is finished.

 

[steve_v]

1 minute ago, Kerbal-Willie said:

I'm finding 'Helper for KSP' & 'KSP Orbicalc' andriod apps very useful  for me while I play on console.

No reason those couldn't have been written in HTML5, and run on Android, iOS, PC, smart TVs, etc. etc.
Jus' sayin...

[FungusForge]

 

Spoiler

4 minutes ago, steve_v said:

Dunno, consoles have web browsers, right? If they don't, that's just plain silly.

Yes, but switching back and forth between your console browser and the game when the above function can be accomplished by the game is entirely pointless. In fact, it would be more cumbersome than remaining in-game. Same goes for PC, switching to a browser while in-game, to access functions in games is just clunky. No-one would use it.

6 minutes ago, steve_v said:

Eh, whut? What's the difference between switching away from KSP to another app (custom) and switching away from KSP to another app (web browser)?

I would be able to monitor both my trajectory and my craft without switching screens. It isn't required by any means but I've had a couple of situations where I'd have liked it.

11 minutes ago, steve_v said:

And require at least twice as much development time. So that's a native app for each phone / tablet OS (>=3) + a native app for each supported console (>=2) + a native app for each supported PC OS (3)... That's at least 8 apps to develop and test, versus one web application.

Pretty sure that's wrong on several accounts. Bare minimum you'd only need separate apps for mobile OS, as the app could be capable of adapting itself to whatever system KSP is on, as long as you tell it so. The Fallout Pipboy app and basically every remote control app (and these handle 50+ different systems, between brands and different models. It's nuts but there's still like a dozen of these apps for Android alone.) out there do this.

17 minutes ago, steve_v said:

So write it in HTML5, which can run offline. Whatever you use, it's going to need a connection at some point for access to your save and / or a running copy of KSP, in order to actually do anything.
We're talking about a mobile app here anyway, how useful is your phone with no network connection?
Writing it as a web application means it will work anywhere, without horsing around with umpteen different builds..

Wifi enabled devices (such as wireless printers) do not need internet for the connection to work. And, again, remote control apps also run on the same principle. Besides that, I can imagine plenty of situations where one would have access to a laptop and a smartphone, but not wifi or internet. In fact, I may soon find myself in such a situation where I'll have to stop with services such as internet, but won't magically lose a functional computer, smartphone, and copy of KSP.

23 minutes ago, steve_v said:

Yes, you would have to leave KSP running somewhere (and have some technical nous to forward the port if you want access from outside your LAN), but you could connect to it and do stuff in near-realtime from anywhere you have a 'net connection.

Outside of spectating dots moving around dots however, this (and the app) would be entirely pointless. May as well be at the computer/console.

33 minutes ago, steve_v said:

Developing separate apps for all the platforms people will want is pure madness, and the time would be better spent improving the game.

Again, it would only need to be made specific for mobile OS. If they can adapt a much more complex game to Windows, MacOS, and Linux, they can make an app for iOS and Android. I don't disagree that it could be done in a web browser, but it would be ideal to have it as an app, as having it as an app would simply streamline its function as a quality-of-life idea. Saying this idea, were it to come to fruition, shouldn't be an app because you don't like how everything has an app is silly. Youtube has an app because it allows better and more streamlined functionality over using youtube on a phone's browser, because of the limits of a phone's browser. Similarly, this could be operated as a web program on a phone's browser, but would be better optimized for a phone if it were an app.

TL;DR: Arguing ATEC's idea shouldn't be a mobile app because it could be done on a browser is like saying KSP shouldn't be a downloaded application because it could be done on a browser. And it probably could, it runs on unity, and plenty of web games run on unity.

As something of an aside, I'm curious why so many feel the need to say this shouldn't be done now/SQUAD should focus on other things when something is suggested without any mention or implication that it should be an immediate concern.

[steve_v]

1 hour ago, FungusForge said:

Yes, but switching back and forth between your console browser and the game when the above function can be accomplished by the game is entirely pointless. In fact, it would be more cumbersome than remaining in-game. Same goes for PC, switching to a browser while in-game, to access functions in games is just clunky. No-one would use it.

The point is... That's not the point. The topic is a mobile app. i.e. one that runs on your phone/tablet/smartwatch/mobile crumpet toaster. Whether it can run on the same system as is running KSP is irrelevant. If it can, bonus.

 

1 hour ago, FungusForge said:

I would be able to monitor both my trajectory and my craft without switching screens. It isn't required by any means but I've had a couple of situations where I'd have liked it.

Looks at trajectory in native app on phone == looks at trajectory in browser app on phone. Zero functional difference.

 

1 hour ago, FungusForge said:

Bare minimum you'd only need separate apps for mobile OS, as the app could be capable of adapting itself to whatever system KSP is on, as long as you tell it so.

Say what? You mean there are Android applications out there that you can just say "run on iOS today" to and it all magically works? No porting? Not even a recompile? What is this witchcraft?
Can you say "run on XBOX" too?
Oh, wait, that's a platform-independent HTML5 app you're describing... or Java maybe. It's certainly not a native application, it'd have to be running in an interpreter... like a JRE or a web-browser.

You do realise that there is more than one mobile operating system in use, right? Or perhaps you just want an app for your favorite one?

 

1 hour ago, FungusForge said:

Wifi enabled devices (such as wireless printers) do not need internet for the connection to work. And, again, remote control apps also run on the same principle.

So explain to me how a "pip boy" app would change data in your KSP save (adding nodes etc.) without a network connection.
Wait, let me guess: The pip-boy app talks to a server built into Fallout over the network... Just like Telemachus, which is the system I'm suggesting. Whether the frontend runs in a browser or not makes not a lick of difference.
Nowhere have I said that this would require an internet connection, that's your interpretation. "web server" does not imply "internet", nor does "web browser". WAN, LAN, Bluetooth PPP, who cares. Any TCP/IP network will do.

If you don't want the server on the internet, don't put it on the internet. This is why I suggested it be a webserver-as-KSP-plugin, running on your own machine and using existing tools.
If you want to be properly masochistic about it (or have as much money as Bethesda) you could invent a completely new protocol, but you're still going to need a server somewhere to get at the save data.

 

1 hour ago, FungusForge said:

The Fallout Pipboy app and basically every remote control app (and these handle 50+ different systems, between brands and different models. It's nuts but there's still like a dozen of these apps for Android alone.) out there do this.

Because Bethesda has the manpower and money to make it so. You need to rewrite, recompile, or run in an interpreter/runtime to support multiple operating systems with the same code.
And what 50+ different systems? I said platforms - in this case that means mobile operating systems. Brands and models have nothing to do with anything.

 

1 hour ago, FungusForge said:

Youtube has an app because it allows better and more streamlined functionality over using youtube on a phone's browser, because of the limits of a phone's browser. Similarly, this could be operated as a web program on a phone's browser, but would be better optimized for a phone if it were an app.

Sure, native apps tend to run faster. They also take a whole lot more work to write if you want to support multiple platforms - i.e. code written for Windows Phone will not run on Android. Why do you think Youtube's primary, universal interface is a web-browser?
Viewing the map screen and editing nodes is not computationally intensive, and doesn't need direct hardware access, so there's no reason for it to be a native app. Unless you like more work.

 

1 hour ago, FungusForge said:

Saying this idea, were it to come to fruition, shouldn't be an app because you don't like how everything has an app is silly.

No, I'm saying it shouldn't be a native app because that's way more work than writing it as a browser app that will run on anything that has a web browser. KSP the game already has enough that needs doing without this additional workload.
It'll also entail using more disk space on the device, scaring the paranoid with permissions requests, clearing it for Google Play and Apple Store, making sure it will run on all the versions of Android out there, pushing security patches, taking down malware laden counterfeits, etc. etc.

As for disliking apps for everything, that's because 99% of them are overweight unnecessary frontends that bring no advantages over a website that already works perfectly well.

 

1 hour ago, FungusForge said:

TL;DR: Arguing ATEC's idea shouldn't be a mobile app because it could be done on a browser is like saying KSP shouldn't be a downloaded application because it could be done on a browser.

False comparison. KSP is a computationally intensive simulation that requires every bit of CPU power the system can throw at it, and graphics acceleration well beyond most mobile devices.
A mobile app that displays the map screen and allows basic editing is a whole different kettle of fish, and will run just fine in a browser.

Telemachus already has access to most of the data required, all that's needed is some additions to the UI and a way of pulling out the map graphics.

Edit: Oh, wait, Why don't we just update this?

Viola, map view on a tablet, no native app required:

Now, who wants to volunteer to get it working properly with 1.2 and add maneuver planning?

Edited April 20, 2017 by steve_v
Look, and thou shalt find.

[Kerbal-Willie]

1 hour ago, FungusForge said:

I'm curious why so many feel the need to say this shouldn't be done now/SQUAD should focus on other things when something is suggested without any mention or implication that it should be an immediate concern.

I didn't mean for my post to come across as making the OP seem like he was demanding this now. Its a good Idea and I would love to see It or something like this made.

[FungusForge]

1 hour ago, steve_v said:

Edit: Oh, wait, Why don't we just update this?

Viola, map view on a tablet.

Gonna ignore my desires to argue and correct everything above the edit, as it seems a lot of it is miscommunication on both ends and I don't want to derail the thread.

That's not a bad idea.

[steve_v]

5 minutes ago, FungusForge said:

Gonna ignore my desires to argue and correct everything above the edit, as it seems a lot of it is miscommunication on both ends and I don't want to derail the thread.

Why not, derailing is good fun.
Then again, nah, I'm going to sleep.

[Archgeek]

9 hours ago, steve_v said:

[...]Viola, map view on a tablet, no native app required:

Now, who wants to volunteer to get it working properly with 1.2 and add maneuver planning?

Oooh, is that written in LabView?  I've dealt with LabView in college and some...thing about how that interface is structured just kinda screeches LabView, at a frequency that's kinda hurting my mind's ear.

[klesh]

I would actually dig something like Fallout 4's companion pipboy app, which connects on wifi to the game and lets you manipulate the game from your tablet.

Almost like a working Rasterpropmonitor screen in IVA, maybe a docking camera.

Something like the above picture, or something that is configurable such that any of us could choose the information we wanted displayed.

 

For it to jibe with the game in that way, it'd have to come from Squad I imagine.