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Surface mount cockpits


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The idea is having cockpits not as inline parent parts but instead surface attachable/radial.

So, let's say you are building a plane (say it's a flying wing) and instead of having the cockpit in the middle you decide to have it offset. You take the glass droplet out and place it on the left wing with a box under it representing the IVA space. If the box is red it means it will poke out/there's not enough space for it. If it's green you are allowed to place it.

north-xb35nose.jpg

How viable would that be? Or maybe better as a mod, if possible?

EDIT: Now, I'm not sure if "radial" is the correct word here so if anyone knows what I mean and knows a better word for it then feel free to correct me.

Edited by Veeltch
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Should be easy enough to implement, I don't know if there are mods that already offer an inline cockpit, but there are no restrictions in the game mechanics as far as I know. Control points can be mounted radially, although you do need to keep in mind that the reference point for the navball may not be in line with your craft's center. Which would make sense, because your pilot's viewpoint is offset as well.

Radially attached parts can just clip inside the part they are attached to, so your IVA space would just be modeled like that (with a box around it). If the IVA space should stick out, you'd have a box sticking out the other end.

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1 hour ago, Veeltch said:

EDIT: Now, I'm not sure if "radial" is the correct word here so if anyone knows what I mean and knows a better word for it then feel free to correct me.

"Surface-atteched"?

I like this idea, and the implementation with the red/green boxes.

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2 hours ago, Stoney3K said:

Should be easy enough to implement, I don't know if there are mods that already offer an inline cockpit, but there are no restrictions in the game mechanics as far as I know. Control points can be mounted radially, although you do need to keep in mind that the reference point for the navball may not be in line with your craft's center. Which would make sense, because your pilot's viewpoint is offset as well.

I was thinking about this and thought that maybe the IVA seat/space should be adjustable with editor gizmos independently from the canopy. But that would probably pose all sorts of other problems.

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2 hours ago, Veeltch said:

I was thinking about this and thought that maybe the IVA seat/space should be adjustable with editor gizmos independently from the canopy. But that would probably pose all sorts of other problems.

The IVA doesn't exist , well, is hidden, in the VAB SPH layer and cannot be interacted with (as far as I'm aware)  It can be a tricky thing moving an IVA independently from it's external view as you run into issues with camera clipping and occasionally with colliders restricting use of IVA switches etc

Here's a view from a radially, surface attached cockpit and IVA

Spoiler

p4cDtXw.png

Spoiler

Mmjx4Mi.png

 

Edited by SpannerMonkey(smce)
added example of my interpretation of radial
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26 minutes ago, SpannerMonkey(smce) said:

The IVA doesn't exist , well, is hidden, in the VAB SPH layer and cannot be interacted with (as far as I'm aware)  It can be a tricky thing moving an IVA independently from it's external view as you run into issues with camera clipping and occasionally with colliders restricting use of IVA switches etc

Here's a view from a radially, surface attached cockpit and IVA

  Reveal hidden contents

p4cDtXw.png

 

I've seen the thread. Would give rep but I'm out right now. Will definitely try the mod.

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If all you want is a surface attachable cockpit, we can do that with module manager patches.  Though there are ways to have offset cockpits without patching at all.  The biggest challenge is balancing the mass, but that is a craft design issue (I'm sure someone out there has tried to build a Bespin fighter).... or maybe I'm not understanding the request.

XCJrxmV.png

Edited by Alshain
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49 minutes ago, Red Iron Crown said:

A surface mount streamlined probe core would be great too. Would make recoverable 3.75m boosters simpler to design if nothing else. 

Even QBE would be something with surface mount, it would not be forgotten like now. Something Streamlined would be nice but maybe too much (I won't refuse it)

Edited by Numerlor
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6 hours ago, Alshain said:

If all you want is a surface attachable cockpit, we can do that with module manager patches.  Though there are ways to have offset cockpits without patching at all.  The biggest challenge is balancing the mass, but that is a craft design issue (I'm sure someone out there has tried to build a Bespin fighter).... or maybe I'm not understanding the request.

XCJrxmV.png

 
 
 

Well, some people who are far, far, far, far better pilots and aircraft builders* than me have suggested Asymmetry in craft design is a good thing.

https://www.wired.com/2011/07/burt-rutans-boomerang-safety-through-asymmetry/

*It's kind of hard to argue with a guy who has been to space in a craft of his own design.

Also think it's time to try and build a boomerang in KSP

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3 minutes ago, mattinoz said:

 

Well, some people who are far, far, far, far better pilots and aircraft builders* than me have suggested Asymmetry in craft design is a good thing.

https://www.wired.com/2011/07/burt-rutans-boomerang-safety-through-asymmetry/

*It's kind of hard to argue with a guy who has been to space in a craft of his own design.

Also think it's time to try and build a boomerang in KSP

In the real world yes, where you have control over every aspect of the craft.  In KSP, Asymmetry is insanely difficult.  Even if you can match mass on both sides of the craft without symmetry, matching drag without symmetry is worse.  The craft I posted above is still symmetrical.

However, after @Red Iron Crown's last post I've realized I did not correctly understand the OP's request.

Edited by Alshain
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There is a radially attachable probe core in one of NecroBones' mods (Modular Rocket Systems I believe; needs SAS IMO, but it works). As for radial attach cockpits, I'm all for it; would reduce the need to clip cockpits into fuselages.

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On 5-5-2017 at 1:48 AM, Alshain said:

In the real world yes, where you have control over every aspect of the craft.  In KSP, Asymmetry is insanely difficult.  Even if you can match mass on both sides of the craft without symmetry, matching drag without symmetry is worse.  The craft I posted above is still symmetrical.

However, after @Red Iron Crown's last post I've realized I did not correctly understand the OP's request.

Hmmm ... interesting. I have a different opinion. Contrary to real life, in KSP we can do things like clip wings, bodies and control surfaces together. I would argue the simplistic Errordynamics make it much easier to get things flying the way you want to. Creating drag is easy, just build like a Neanderthal.

FrD6B2J.png

This is an asymmetrical stock aircraft carrier ... one that can drive, sail and fly. It has a krakentech elevator (the thing on the right) producing lots of drag. Exploiting physics in KSP is a lot easier than in real life.

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4 minutes ago, Azimech said:

I'm afraid of boomerangs.

 

Edit: and other Aussie bugs, for that matter.

Then why were you commenting on our discussion about boomerangs?

 

Also, the Boomerang is an American craft, or at least it was built by an American.

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Just now, Alshain said:

Then why were you commenting on our discussion about boomerangs?

 

Also, the Boomerang is an American craft, or at least it was built by an American.

Maybe my sense of humor has crossed a line ... who knows?

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I feel like most of the problems with assymetrical aircraft in KSP is the fact that we have only pusher jet engines that tend to work more like a stick pushing your craft from behind. Making assymetrical aircraft with a forward propeller would probably much easier, since it works more like a rope attached to the front.

But then I might be wrong. I don't know much about aerodynamics.

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