KSP Weekly: The space pioneers and other adventures

[passinglurker]

5 minutes ago, qzgy said:

All of it.

lol to be fair a normal map might mitigate a few of these issues... there is gonna be a normal map on the making history command parts right?

[steve_v]

7 minutes ago, passinglurker said:

The little button rows of bolts that have no precedence either in real life or kerbals "aesthetic" and are generally bad engineering (why are they on the heat shield!?)

I really wish Squad would ditch this silly "everything must have visible rivets" mentality...
Prominent bolts / rivets on every panel seam is something I would expect to see on a steam locomotive, not a spacecraft. Where rivets are used (e.g. aircraft skin), they're flush and they're painted.

[passinglurker]

Just now, steve_v said:

I really wish Squad would ditch this silly "everything must have visible rivets" mentality...
Prominent bolts / rivets on every panel seam is something I would expect to see on a steam locomotive, not a spacecraft. Where rivets are used (e.g. aircraft skin), they're flush and they're painted.

To be fair the real LEM was pretty riveted on the outside so it has precedence, but bolts and rivets on fuel tank pressure vessels or on apollo is a big engineering no no and betrays the knowledge gap of some one in the part production pipeline, but this community is a great place to learn if they would only listen.

Also before anyone says that I just hate bolts they do have thier time and place when used subtly and sparingly or have a historical precedence. 

[qzgy]

Just now, passinglurker said:

bolts they do have their time and place when used subtly and sparingly

Agreed. Large bolts do not look particularly good, IMO. Small bolts and rivets - better.

[Cpt Kerbalkrunch]

3 hours ago, SQUAD said:

 The devs also fixed a problem with the maneuver nodes and patched conics where the maneuver node would jump to an invalid location on the screen when a vessel was burning it’s engines past a node and the projected conics encountered another bodies SOI.

Glad I read back through this. I usually just skip to the Making History section. I never will again. Almost missed the best part. People talk about bugs all the time, but this is the only one I consistently run into that ruins what I'm doing. No more quicksave right before a burn with the mouse hovering over the SAS hold so I'm ready to switch from maneuver hold when the node inevitably jumps and I have to erase the node and burn without a maneuver and hope that I've held it steady and I'll hit my target, or else reload and try again? This is fantastic news. Thank you, Squad.

[passinglurker]

7 minutes ago, qzgy said:

Agreed. Large bolts do not look particularly good, IMO. Small bolts and rivets - better.

Small, few, low contrast they can be a nice touch if you don't over do it to the levels we've been seeing from rockomax and making history

EDIT: And of course don't put bolts where they don't belong 

Edited May 6, 2017 by passinglurker

[Ten Key]

I dunno. . .the Apollo CSM looks plenty "rivety" to me. . .

Spoiler

 

 

 

Given that this isn't supposed to be an exact replica, I think maybe ya'll are making a mountain out of a mohole.  

[passinglurker]

9 minutes ago, Ten Key said:

I dunno. . .the Apollo CSM looks plenty "rivety" to me. . .

  Hide contents

 

 

 

Given that this isn't supposed to be an exact replica, I think maybe ya'll are making a mountain out of a mohole.  

Practically invisible in the first pic. Is the second pic flight hardware or a replica? either way even in the museum pic they are so subtle they should be treated like vostoks hexagons (i.e. subtle if not omitted) the pod shown this week has bolts that leap out too much, and again there are no rivets on the skirts of the heat shields 

As for the third its been stripped of its paint so I'm not counting it

EDIT: This is not a mod its paid content competing with mods no mohole is to small

Edited May 6, 2017 by passinglurker

[Enceos]

@passinglurker I'm looking forward to seeing your Making History Texture Revamp mod.

[passinglurker]

19 minutes ago, Enceos said:

@passinglurker I'm looking forward to seeing your Making History Texture Revamp mod.

I don't believe modders should have to pick up after the developer I'd rather add to a nice looking game than have to make one from scratch.

[Enceos]

That's basically what modders do.

[passinglurker]

4 minutes ago, Enceos said:

That's basically what modders do.

They add to a game yes, but not a nice looking game. making better art is pointless if it clashes with everything else that is why pork-alike true stock-alike is so popular its a standard that is agreed on by seemingly every content creator, but the current squad allowing for excellent interchangeability between mods.

I will admit I had considered a texture revamp but honestly it's a waste of time. Take the bolts for example I could spend a while air brushing them away but a dev can remove them with the push of a button cause they have the layered source files. same goes with the fuzzy AO I'd have to basically repaint from scratch to correct any of that without access to the layers, and then there is the possibility that the UV's are overly reliant on mirroring explaining why the saturn tanks are so clean edged with their paint jobs any blemish would be repeated symmetrically.

No unless they want to share thier texture sources with the community fixing squad's parts is squad's responsibility if squad can't make quality work without needing a generous fan to pick up after them then I'll just throw my money at the patreon's of modders who follow true stock-alike instead so they can afford to take the time to maintain thier mods

[brusura]

We pc guy could also benefit from manipulating node with keys instead of mouse ( node maipulating is always been terrible ), who agree with me?

[MiffedStarfish]

That's a nice pod, but it's literally just the MK3 pod with significantly better visuals. Shadow fixes sound interesting though.

[HebaruSan]

7 hours ago, SQUAD said:

And on the parts subject, we have another surprise for you. The team was able to get more work done on our American engines, and also wrapped up some finishing touches on a new 2.5m Apollo capsule. Check it out!  

It's interesting that there are both seams and lines of bolts, and that the two don't always line up. I thought bolts like that were mainly used along seams to hold down the edges of the panels meeting there. That seems to be how they're used in @Ten Key's images:

But the central panel in the screenshot has 4 rows of bolts going across the middle of it, seemingly at random. Maybe that could be looked at.

[rudi1291]

7 hours ago, SQUAD said:

a new 2.5m Apollo capsule. Check it out!  

That looks nice! Does it have any features that make it different from the existing 2.5m pod? The size seems to be pretty much the same.

7 hours ago, RoverDude said:

and those RCS ports work

Oh cool!

[Majorjim!]

7 hours ago, Just Jim said:

 I'm much more excited to hear the shadows are being addressed... 

It sounds like they are tackling the odd shadows on the KSC buildings only. The shadow striping is a totally different kettle of fish sadly.. One that has its roots deep in the Unity code.

[Frozen_Heart]

That pod looks great. And the built in RCS will make it really useful.

 

Is it the old pod but updated or a completely new one?

[passinglurker]

2 hours ago, HebaruSan said:

It's interesting that there are both seams and lines of bolts, and that the two don't always line up. I thought bolts like that were mainly used along seams to hold down the edges of the panels meeting there. That seems to be how they're used in @Ten Key's images:

But the central panel in the screenshot has 4 rows of bolts going across the middle of it, seemingly at random. Maybe that could be looked at.

That museum photo is confusing me so much because you don't see the same thing in that picture of a recovered pod or in the flight photo's even the high res ones from nasa's gallery. It makes me think the museum model is made or treated differently (thinner paint? panels tacked on for display purposes?)

[swjr-swis]

7 hours ago, passinglurker said:

This is a perfect opportunity to use DLC to support improvements to the core game. My disapproval for button rows of bolts that don't exist on the real thing aside Why let the ugly old ram hogging mk1-2 pod/IVA linger in the part catalog when this can replace it? 

Why should I give squad more money when they won't even use DLC as an excuse to polish the rough parts of the core game that got the shaft in the rush to 1.0?

I'm glad you did the research and found that pic of the Apollo capsule with such a high degree of zoom. I would've never found out how incredibly horrible the textures are on that thing!

• Seriously, it almost looks like they gave a kindergarten class a roll of silvery sticky tape and scissors and then instructed them to plaster random strokes all over the surface.
• No, not one roll, several rolls, of different shades, some of them not even metallic.
• The RCS ports are completely inconsistent, shades of oxidized red on the top of the picture, yet pitch black for the ones at the bottom.
• And what's with the frilly things at the right, around the hatch? Looks like it's sprouting tentacles or something.

I am horrified that we gave NASA so much money over the years for such poorly finished ugly-looking end products! We should demand a redo.

 

[passinglurker]

3 minutes ago, swjr-swis said:

I'm glad you did the research and found that pic of the Apollo capsule with such a high degree of zoom. I would've never found out how incredibly horrible the textures are on that thing!

• Seriously, it almost looks like they gave a kindergarten class a roll of silvery sticky tape and scissors and then instructed them to plaster random strokes all over the surface.
• No, not one roll, several rolls, of different shades, some of them not even metallic.
• The RCS ports are completely inconsistent, shades of oxidized red on the top of the picture, yet pitch black for the ones at the bottom.
• And what's with the frilly things at the right, around the hatch? Looks like it's sprouting tentacles or something.

I am horrified that we gave NASA so much money over the years for such poorly finished ugly-looking end products! We should demand a redo.

 

we did its called orion  let this be a lesson in getting your assets right before your 1.0 release so that post release revamping doesn't get more expensive and out of control

[swjr-swis]

4 minutes ago, passinglurker said:

we did its called orion  let this be a lesson in getting your assets right before your 1.0 release so that post release revamping doesn't get more expensive and out of control

Someone had better call NASA then and have them fix those ugly unrealistic rows of bolts clearly visible all over the surface of their capsule...

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/80/Orion_with_ATV_SM.jpg

Edited May 6, 2017 by swjr-swis
Not sure why the pic disappears

[passinglurker]

3 minutes ago, swjr-swis said:

Someone had better call NASA then and have them fix those ugly unrealistic rows of bolts clearly visible all over the surface of their capsule...

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/80/Orion_with_ATV_SM.jpg

Like I said there's a time and place for bolts. That time is when they are subtle and that place is when you are close up also maybe don't use the sleek and boltless C7 aerospace division paint job and end caps if you are pulling a different style

[John FX]

Last time people moaned so much about minor details in textures the whole barn got dropped never to be seen again because the work needed to bring it to the quality wanted is far too much to be worth it so they didn't bother.

Sheesh people, it is a minor detail on a single part, get some perspective!

[mattinoz]

1 hour ago, passinglurker said:

Like I said there's a time and place for bolts. That time is when they are subtle and that place is when you are close up also maybe don't use the sleek and boltless C7 aerospace division paint job and end caps if you are pulling a different style

Can we stop calling them bolts when they are clearly a mix of rivets and weld contact points?