KSP Weekly: The space pioneers and other adventures

[HebaruSan]

2 hours ago, passinglurker said:

(blind trust lead to the 1.0 rush and console port snafu)

Not really. There was plenty of criticism of both decisions at the time. Ultimately, nobody makes SQUAD's decisions but SQUAD.

[passinglurker]

19 minutes ago, HebaruSan said:

Not really. There was plenty of criticism of both decisions at the time. Ultimately, nobody makes SQUAD's decisions but SQUAD.

I'd make a counterpoint to that with the barn. Thing about it is always how much money is involved. Criticism of 1.0 and consoles didn't work because they already had our money where as criticism of the barn worked because it was no big loss to squad if they dropped it. Now with DLC criticism carries a lot more weight because they are running out of new markets to tap so they have to come back to thier user base meaning we are the people they are trying to sell this to, or in other words there is finally money in addressing criticism. 

Edited May 8, 2017 by passinglurker

[regex]

New pod looks good, too bad it's not going to replace the Mk 1-2. Seems we're going to get all new art and replacements in expansions.

[GrouchyDevotee]

PS4 player

 

I'm very glad to hear that progress is going well.

I think I'm going to need a video demonstration of exactly how to monkey paw some of these controls....

[Vanamonde]

Quote

... criticism of the barn worked ... 

Yes, congratulations on complaining about a preliminary version so much that we never got to see what a finished version might have looked like. Real victory there. Keep fighting the good fight. 

[passinglurker]

1 hour ago, Vanamonde said:

Yes, congratulations on complaining about a preliminary version so much that we never got to see what a finished version might have looked like. Real victory there. Keep fighting the good fight. 

First the barn being preliminary is a baseless assumption it's more plausible that at the pace they were moving to .90 and 1.0 there was no way what we saw was "preliminary" what we saw was what we were going to get.

Second try making 3d art you'll gain an appreciation of what can and can't be easily fixed. my issues with the making history parts? generally based around easy fixes for people with access to the layered texture sources. The barn on the other hand you'll soon find there was nothing to salvage and progress from that unity asset store kitbash only course was to rip it up maybe keep the core idea of cozy repurposed buildings and start over.

Either way about the apollo replacing the mk1-2 pod that spawned this tangent Squad could probably argue that the making history pod would have drastically different stats and capabilities (ie integrated RCS and riveted heat shield, no reaction wheels, etc) and so its not a drop in replacement to which I'd then ask. Why is it rocket flipp'n white? if it can't be a drop in replacement for the mk1-2 why is it not a high specular grey? 

[stibbons]

4 minutes ago, passinglurker said:

there was no way what we saw was "preliminary" what we saw was what we were going to get.

Wait, what were you saying about baseless assumptions?

[regex]

1 hour ago, Vanamonde said:

Yes, congratulations on complaining about a preliminary version so much that we never got to see what a finished version might have looked like. Real victory there. Keep fighting the good fight. 

Thanks! I'm glad I put my two cents in about the trite and frankly insulting tropes contained within the preview art. I'm quite happy that stuff never saw use in the game.

[snip]

[passinglurker]

Just now, stibbons said:

Wait, what were you saying about baseless assumptions?

I base my assumptions on the worst case scenario cause that's what 1.0 was if you weren't there for it and it's rushed features. They were practically rewriting and adding new thermal system mechanics in the rapid fire hotfixes that followed and from what the plugin writers tell me its still a bit of a hot mess. Anyway this isn't a barn thread sorry for bringing it up as an example of a time squad stopped grinning through their teeth and listened to its community for a precious moment.

[TheKosmonaut]

Post is under investigation and maintenance... Nothing to fear, citizens.

...

Ok, thread is unlocked. We're always watching, Wazowski... Always watching.

[Frozen_Heart]

1 hour ago, passinglurker said:

Either way about the apollo replacing the mk1-2 pod that spawned this tangent Squad could probably argue that the making history pod would have drastically different stats and capabilities (ie integrated RCS and riveted heat shield, no reaction wheels, etc) and so its not a drop in replacement to which I'd then ask. Why is it rocket flipp'n white? if it can't be a drop in replacement for the mk1-2 why is it not a high specular grey? 

It is meant to be a drop in replacement though. Just with a few updated things like RCS (the current one has rcs on the model it just doesn't work)

 

They are doing it like this simply so people who don't buy the dlc don't get part updates for old parts.

[RoverDude]

Two notes.

First.  The new pod has characteristics (ladder position for example) that would mess up crafts if it flat-out replaced the Mk1-2.

Second.  Heat shields are a separate part and have been since 1.0.    Even the current Mk1-2 pod does NOT have a heat shield at the bottom of it.

[Frozen_Heart]

1 hour ago, RoverDude said:

Two notes.

First.  The new pod has characteristics (ladder position for example) that would mess up crafts if it flat-out replaced the Mk1-2.

Second.  Heat shields are a separate part and have been since 1.0.    Even the current Mk1-2 pod does NOT have a heat shield at the bottom of it.

There have been a lot more drastic craft breaking changes than moving a ladder before. Aka the Mk-3 spaceplanes parts stopped some craft even being loaded again.

[John FX]

17 minutes ago, Frozen_Heart said:

There have been a lot more drastic craft breaking changes than moving a ladder before. Aka the Mk-3 spaceplanes parts stopped some craft even being loaded again.

And how much complaining happened due to that?

Lots.

People, you have a choice between this part or no part. Like the barn, you had a choice between 4 tiers or three. At no time was there a redesign on the books.

Myself, I would have preferred four tiers, career would have been much smoother. I currently prefer to have the new part than to not have it.

[klgraham1013]

59 minutes ago, Frozen_Heart said:

There have been a lot more drastic craft breaking changes than moving a ladder before. Aka the Mk-3 spaceplanes parts stopped some craft even being loaded again.

Yes, but we're not early access any more.

Edited May 8, 2017 by klgraham1013

[CobaltWolf]

I fail to see how Squad's lack of commitment re: the barn somehow invalidates criticism of the new art...

[Just Jim]

Am I reading these comments right??? Are there really some who would scrap the whole DLC idea because in their opinion a couple parts aren't quite perfect enough???  Seriously???  

[klgraham1013]

27 minutes ago, Just Jim said:

Am I reading these comments right??? Are there really some who would scrap the whole DLC idea because in their opinion a couple parts aren't quite perfect enough???  Seriously???  

I don't think so.  I think they're asking for a few things to be improved.  Things that, in their opinions, need improving.

Edited May 8, 2017 by klgraham1013

[tater]

4 hours ago, RoverDude said:

Second.  Heat shields are a separate part and have been since 1.0.    Even the current Mk1-2 pod does NOT have a heat shield at the bottom of it.

Thanks for answering. It just looks like it might have an integral one, which would be novel for a capsule outside of a mod. What about the chutes?

[RoverDude]

Can't comment on parts outside of what we've revealed, NDA and all that

[Just Jim]

8 minutes ago, klgraham1013 said:

I don't think so.  I think they're asking for a few things to be improved.  Things that, in their opinions, need improving.

That I understand... we all want the best product Squad can make. But it just seems to me in the last couple KSP Weekly's that a few replies are getting really mean and nasty about it, and sound like they would rather just scrap the whole project. How is that supposed to help anything?

Edited May 8, 2017 by Just Jim

[Frozen_Heart]

11 minutes ago, Just Jim said:

That I understand... we all want the best product Squad can make. But it just seems to me in the last couple KSP Weekly's that a few replies are getting really mean and nasty about it, and sound like they would rather just scrap the whole project. How is that supposed to help anything?

There seem to be two separate lines of complains going on atm. 

 

-First one is people disliking the new art. (I don't agree with this one personally, imo the new art looks amazing)

-Second one is that the new command pod is identical to the old one, but only in the dlc. Which is seeming like they are doing an art pass but only for dlc owners when half the game is still using placeholder assets.

 

No one wants the dlc to be scrapped though. Imo it is a good thing and Squad needs it as well as it is a long time since KSP was released.

 

 

Edited May 8, 2017 by Frozen_Heart

[passinglurker]

5 hours ago, RoverDude said:

Two notes.

First.  The new pod has characteristics (ladder position for example) that would mess up crafts if it flat-out replaced the Mk1-2.

Second.  Heat shields are a separate part and have been since 1.0.    Even the current Mk1-2 pod does NOT have a heat shield at the bottom of it.

First. There are good ways to design around this problem let's go through them shall we?

A. Parts can have more than one hatch. Simply add an emergency exit panel and a few foot/hand holds where the old hatch was.

B. implement both parts under different part names and move the old part to the hidden tech node with the potatoroids this way old craft will load but new craft only use the new part and with time you eventually phase out the old part to free dlc for people who keep craft files for far to long to install.

C: Same as B but instead of phasing out the old part you just compress its textures to minimize ram impact the kethane mod this this with its old drill part

D. same as B and C but you map the old parts mesh to the new parts texture sheet to eliminate all ram impact. It'll look weird but it only has to stand in long enough for people to transition to the new part.

Also using methods B, C, and D allow you to fix bad part ballance (mk1-2 pod is too heavy) without breaking craft in flight, and weird part colliders (the RT-10 collider is an oblong not a clyinder, the inline docking port collider is shorter than its length, the 1.25m nose cone parachute collider is a blunt cylinder not a cone etc etc...)

You can fix the old parts without stepping on toes so what's the real excuse not to? The mexico office is under the false impression that adding anything to the core game will reduce the value of the DLC because they don't understand paradox studio's business model?

EDIT: and again if they are meant to be separate non-replacing parts why is it white instead of apollo's actual color? It can be done with a high specular grey assuming new parts use the specular and normal maps that have become the standard in the modding community.

Edited May 8, 2017 by passinglurker

[TheEpicSquared]

So what's this "barn" people are talking about? Sorry, haven't been following along.  

[sh1pman]

Just now, TheEpicSquared said:

So what's this "barn" people are talking about? Sorry, haven't been following along.  

tier 0 spaceplane hangar