Avery616

I use cheats alot

28 posts in this topic

So in KSP i cheat a lot :/ Basically i don't know much about orbital maneuvering. I can get into orbit around kerbin. And modify the orbit to make it higher or lower and make it into a polar orbit and back but that's it. I don't  know how to get between celestial body's. So when i do get between them i use the cheat screen and turn on unlimited fuel. I do put limits on my cheat usage through by requiring fuel usage turned on to get the craft to space and to make the initial orbit around kerbin and...that's it. I guess i feel really bad about using all these cheats. So should i feel bad about this? Is this a bad thing?

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Posted (edited)

It's only a bad thing if you'd like to actually learn something about how to do it for real (well, as "real" as KSP gets, which isn't terribly real, but it can give you a feel for it, for sure).

What do you notice about making a prograde burn? Where does the orbit get higher? That should tell you a little about how to get to other bodies (or other spacecraft, in different orbits). Roughly, you raise or lower an orbit to cross another body's orbit. The trick is to time it such that you are near the other world's orbit when that world happens to be there as well. KSP fails to provide tools for this (it should), btut you can try with maneuver nodes to see what happens.

Put a craft in orbit over Kerbin. Place a node and simply pull the prograde burn marker, watching the orbit rise on the other side from the maneuver node. Pick the Mun to start, and select the Mun as target (in map view). You'll see markers showing how close you will come to the Mun. If you move the maneuver node around the orbit you are in, you'll get a feel for how much you need to lead the target. The same becomes true for all other worlds.

Edited by tater
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1 hour ago, Avery616 said:

I guess i feel really bad about using all these cheats. So should i feel bad about this? Is this a bad thing?

Of course you shouldn't feel bad!  It's a game, and you're the only person who matters (since it's a single-player game), and you're playing it to have fun.

So, the only way to "do it wrong" is if you're not having fun.  :)

That said:  Using cheats a lot means that you won't have the chance to develop a lot of skills in KSP.  But that's neither a positive nor a negative statement-- it's judgment-neutral.  It just is what it is.  Whether it's "good" or "bad" depends on your priorities.

  • Are you having fun now, as you're doing it?  If the answer is yes, then what's the problem?
  • Imagine that you stopped using the cheats, and then did the hard work of learning how to do all this stuff without them.  Would that make you feel better ("yay!  I accomplished!") or worse ("man, this is a drag, I was having more fun with the cheats")?  That'll answer your question right there.

There's no one right answer to your question, because different people have different priorities.

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1 hour ago, Avery616 said:

Is this a bad thing?

Only if you want it to be. Any other sane person literally doesn't care how you play the game (although you might miss out on some internet points if you misrepresent).

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If you do want to wean yourself off of the cheats I suggest you try this: Write down all the cheats you commonly use, and then pick one of them at random and ban yourself from doing it. Keep playing until you can do it without that cheat at all, and then pick another one. Repeat until your list is empty or you realize you're having more fun doing it the old way.

I cheat a lot too. I've never done a land-and-return mission to Eve that didn't first involve teleporting the ship to Eve first to test every single aspect of the mission. I also have been known to turn on infinite fuel if I'm close but run out at the last moments. Or infinite electricity on my probe when I realize halfway to Minmus that I forgot the solar panel.

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Posted (edited)

I would say no, don't feel bad..... it's up to you how you want to play. 

And I'm assuming from this you're still learning how to play:

1 hour ago, Avery616 said:

Basically i don't know much about orbital maneuvering. I can get into orbit around kerbin. And modify the orbit to make it higher or lower and make it into a polar orbit and back but that's it. I don't  know how to get between celestial body's. So when i do get between them i use the cheat screen and turn on unlimited fuel.

You've gotten something into orbit, which can be trickier than it might sound, and this is a great accomplishment. You just need to keep building them bigger and bigger now, and eventually you'll have something that can make it to Duna or Eve without Alt-F12. It takes time to get to another planet, or even the Mun or Minmus... but that's half the fun.

I would suggest trying to get as far as you can with a rocket before resulting to unlimited fuel... only resort to it if your fuel tanks are near empty and still need to get home. And depending on how close you get, build or change around the same ship to try and get further... You may make it faster than you think. And even if you don't, you'll be building experience in building and flying rockets.

In the end, it's like others have already said... your game... your rules... you can do whatever you want, so long as you're having fun.  :)

 

Edited by Just Jim
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To echo the primary sentiment: single-player game. Play it how you want to, and don't feel bad if you have to take it easy on yourself. It is literally rocket science, and a lot of the difficulty toggles are there because it is a lot to take in.

That said, if you want to learn how to play using as few abstractions as possible:

#1: Loads of tutorials on Youtube and here on the forum. Keep in mind that, the older the tutorial, the more likely something is to be out-of-date. Anything advising you to build a gigantic asparagus-staged pancake rocket, for example, pre-dates 0.90.

#2: Learn to use the trackball for immediate navigation and maneuver nodes for charting your course.

#3: When in doubt, throw an expendable probe at it.

#4: A few of the basic mathematical concepts

Tsiolkovsky rocket equation: delta-V = Gm * Isp * ln(full mass / empty mass) = V(exhaust) * ln (full / empty). This specifies how much you can use your engines to directly change your velocity vector.

Oberth effect: the faster you're going, the more orbital energy you can accumulate for a given amount of delta-V; furthermore, prograde and retrograde burns are the best way to add and remove orbital energy.

Remember: you always return to the point of your last maneuver unless something gets in the way.

#5: No EPA to get offended by slamming nuclear thermal rockets everywhere.

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To quote: "Once you're in low Earth orbit you're halfway to anywhere".

I think being able to get into orbit is a great accomplishment by itself. If you feel bad, think again. Did you play for fun or to learn? Anything is okay. It's a single player game that can be played however you like. I do uses a cheat a lot in the past (back in KSP 1.1)  for learning how to get into interplanetary travel or building SSTO, but now I think I have a necessary skill to build a legitimate SSTO or did an interplanetary travel without cheat (I'm exploring duna now). For me, cheat is a tool for learning in KSP, after I'm able to did it with cheat, I'm learning how to fix it without it. It's a personal preference whether to use cheat for fun, or using it for learning :)

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Posted (edited)

Well thank you all for your answers. I have messed around abit in KSP and i can now say i have managed to get to the mun without cheats! Other planets? not yet. And i am still abit to scared to step outside of the no fuel usage zone.

 

3 hours ago, ARS said:

To quote: "Once you're in low Earth orbit you're halfway to anywhere"

 

Also i believe the correct quote is "Once you're in low kerbin orbit you're halfway to anywhere":wink:

Edited by Avery616
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39 minutes ago, Avery616 said:

Also i believe the correct quote is "Once you're in low kerbin orbit you're halfway to anywhere":wink:

Ah, my bad :D

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@Avery616, remember it is your game,your rules. There is nothing bad in anything you do.

I would suggest using MechJeb, you will watch what is the autopilot doing, copy it and as a result master it.

But if you do use cheats, use them for entertainment, make funny things, make something unflyable fly! The only goal in KSP is to have fun!

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Really interesting question and a load of great answers.

Just like everyone else says, I too don't think there's anything wrong in using cheats in a single player game, just as long as you're having fun.

I don't use the cheat function very much as I find I can get all the help and guidance I need when I hit a snag by posting a question on this site and trawl through YouTube clips.  The only cheat I do use from time to time is when I put together a new lander and want to know if it might be able to do what I'm planning, rather than haul the thing to  Minmus (for example), I set up an orbit of the moon in the cheat mode and try it out.  I consider this as a computer test of the design before the mission starts.  When I get the result I want, I then revert the flight and do it for real.

Anyway, keep having fun! :) 

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You shouldn't feel bad about yourself, my brother (he doesn't have an account)

uses cheats a lot too!

If you don't like cheating, then you should go back to basics and look up how to go to planets and stuff on youtube.

hope That helps!!!:wink:

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I use cheats a lot for testing purposes. Only testing. Oh, and doing SCIENCE with Whack-A-Kerbal. :D 

I don't ever use it in my mission reports. Why cheat when you can add MOAR BOOSTERZ and just explode your way there? :) 

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I also use cheats for testing purposes, my mission currently in progress(look at my signature involves cheats for testing purposes.

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I guess you are only denying yourself the satisfaction you get when you finally master something that defies your original understanding and/or capability.  KSP has so many things that seem impossible at first - getting to orbit, safely landing on Mun and then returning, rendezvous and docking - that when you do finally conquer them, you feel a massive sense of achievement.  Or at least I did.

Sure the game can still be enjoyed by taking shortcuts to achieve various tasks, but trust me when I say that it can be enjoyed a lot more if you take the time and make the effort to learn how to do the things you currently use cheats to do.

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What do you guys consider cheating? I often find myself thinking "Is this cheating", particularly when using the Krash mod. It does help test and evaluate the design before you invest a bunch of time and effort flying the mission which isn't too dissimilar to simulations in real life.

Although I guess the fun and excitement comes when there is a sense of achievement from designing something on paper and it works in 'real life' 

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3 hours ago, Scarecrow said:

I guess you are only denying yourself the satisfaction you get when you finally master something that defies your original understanding and/or capability.  KSP has so many things that seem impossible at first - getting to orbit, safely landing on Mun and then returning, rendezvous and docking - that when you do finally conquer them, you feel a massive sense of achievement.  Or at least I did.

Sure the game can still be enjoyed by taking shortcuts to achieve various tasks, but trust me when I say that it can be enjoyed a lot more if you take the time and make the effort to learn how to do the things you currently use cheats to do.

Honestly, I can better relate to Scarecrow's post than anyone else's. For me at least, cheating usually results in a hollow gaming experience. But then again, I'm a very achievement-oriented person, so my kind of fun is learning how to overcome challenges.

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Failing can be fun too...:)

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Just have fun, regardless of how you play. But if you want to learn maneuvers and transferring to other planets, the hardest part, in my opinion, is having enough DV.

Fortunately, there are maps floating around here that state approximately how much you need to each destination. 

From there learn staging and use kerbal engineer to give you a DV readout. 

Beyond that it's just tweaking maneuver nodes until you get an encounter, then execute it. Easy. 

Just need to break the  steps it into chunks, then it's not so overwhelming. 

Edited by matthomas7

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The other "cheating" is editing configuration files to make KSP do something you want it to..

That leads to the next step of making a copy of a part then editing it for your own purpose

That then leads to making dedicated parts you make and thats what we call a mod.. From there your outlook is unlimited

The history of KSP itself is full of such things..

Cheating isnt bad..it expands horizons

And its brought KSP to where it is now

 

In my KSP, Using stock rockets and planes are cheating.. Flyimg is too easy

Using trains is not..

Using a jet engine to move a train is cheating

Using a jet engine modified into a diesel generator to drive modified wheels that in turn move a train.. Full of mods and stock modified by myself far beyond the original scope of KSP... None of this for me is cheating

using a rocket to fly out of the atmosphere and land somewhere else dropping off a fuel pod.. Grey area

Definately cheating is strapping a locomotive to a rocket. Sending it to the frozen poles vs driving there

Your game is your own.. Your mind is also your own :)

Make of it what you will

If you want to feel guilty for using cheats.. Then you can too :)

But theres also no such thing outside of challenges with specified requirements

KSP is a great many things :)

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Yes, you should feel very bad.

Or not, it depends. Of several factors, none of them having anything to do with KSP.

You can do whatever you want, it is a game, and it is not multiplayer, so you won't bother others.

But if i were you, i'd try not to cheat, because when you get the objectives without cheating, they are more comforting.

Sorry 4 my english,

Regards

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When you are the only one in charge and who matters, there are no rules. Never.

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I think OP already feels bad for cheating, and that's why this thread exists. 

I'll go against the grain of the above posters and say that you should, too. Not so much because you're cheating at the game, but because you are cheating yourself out of the sense of achievement that comes from getting good at KSP. For someone unfamiliar with physics or spaceflight this game is hard, especially at first. You really have to do the research and practice a lot to get good at it. It takes patience, smarts, knowledge and determination; getting skilled affirms these virtues in yourself. You just don't get that feeling of being a steely-eyed rocket man when you solve your all your troubles by hitting Alt-F12. That's the cheating you should feel bad about, because it's a huge part of the long term enjoyment of the game and you're missing out on it. 

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On 5/8/2017 at 5:25 PM, Avery616 said:

So in KSP i cheat a lot :/ Basically i don't know much about orbital maneuvering. I can get into orbit around kerbin. And modify the orbit to make it higher or lower and make it into a polar orbit and back but that's it. I don't  know how to get between celestial body's. So when i do get between them i use the cheat screen and turn on unlimited fuel. I do put limits on my cheat usage through by requiring fuel usage turned on to get the craft to space and to make the initial orbit around kerbin and...that's it. I guess i feel really bad about using all these cheats. So should i feel bad about this? Is this a bad thing?

So? It's not like you're playing the board game "Battleship" with another player and move your vessels around between every third turn. Or playing Monopoly, as the banker, pay yourself an additional $200 as the other players pass "go." Those examples would be cheating. :wink:

What you are describing is simply having fun in a one-player game. You're too worried about what others think. If you're having fun doing what you are doing, then do it. :D

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