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Duna,Eve, or neither?


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Hi guys!

I know this has been asked thousands, maybe even millions of times, but the most recent post of this that I could find (via Google) was from 2013, and I'm not sure if anything's changed since then. I would like to go beyond minimus, but I'm not sure where to go. Docking for me is absolutely impossible, unless its on the ground and can be done via either rovers or KIS/KAS. No matter what planet I go to, I plan on bringing an unmanned sat with me (for comnet) and a 1 man lander. I'd prefer it if I could return, since I'm playing with USI LS, but since I have turned off the death penalty for running out food, I won't mind as much if I cant do it. I know EVE has less delta-v requirements then Duna, but I also know that EVE is almost impossible to leave from, especially if you miss the land and hit water. The only places I have visited in KSP are the Mun and Minimus, but I have also returned from both.

Simply put without the big box of text above, I would like to know if I should go to EVE, Duna, or somewhere else all together.

Edited by nascarlaser1
fixed spelling
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Protip: play around in sandbox until you've taught yourself to dock. Direct ascent to Duna or Eve landing is hard enough; direct ascent with return is almost impossible for Duna and definitely impossible for Eve.

Use the debug menu and turn on infinite fuel and use that to play around with docking until you get the hang of it. I assume you've at least gone through the motions before? E.g., setting target, using RCS translation, etc.?

With infinite fuel enabled and the navball set to target tracking mode, you can simply wait until closest approach and then translate toward retrograde until you cancel velocity. Then, translate toward target until you pick up speed. Wait again for closest approach and repeat. It will work, eventually.

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7 minutes ago, sevenperforce said:

.

Use the debug menu and turn on infinite fuel and use that to play around with docking until you get the hang of it. I assume you've at least gone through the motions before? E.g., setting target, using RCS translation, etc.?

With infinite fuel enabled and the navball set to target tracking mode, you can simply wait until closest approach and then translate toward retrograde until you cancel velocity. Then, translate toward target until you pick up speed. Wait again for closest approach and repeat. It will work, eventually.

uhh..... not sure what any of it that means... srry :(. The only docking I've done is when building a station with EPL. I spawned the part via the orbital dock, moved the station so the things lined up, then moved them again till the magnet took over...

 

This entire save is sandbox also. I don't like science mode or career right now till I figure out the perfect combo of mods for me.

Edited by nascarlaser1
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If you want to return then Duna is your first choice. Atmospheric pressure is so low you can use VAC-engines like Terrier or NERV for takeoff and landing. But the fact there is an atmosphere allows you to use parachutes.

Plan 100m/s dV for deorbiting and another 100m/s for touchdownburn and you are on the safe side.

Needed dV for the whole trip:

http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Cheat_sheet

Use droguechutes, you can deploy them at higher speed. Aim a PE of 10km for landing.

Good luck and have fun :)

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20 minutes ago, sevenperforce said:

Direct ascent to Duna or Eve landing is hard enough; direct ascent with return is almost impossible for Duna

Yes. Absolutely impossible.

Okay, so it might be a little difficult for new players. And mostly I just wanted an excuse to link Macollo's video. With regular-scale Duna, it shouldn't really be all that hard to do direct-ascent, it's just a case of "moar delta-V".

Just beware of Ike and its trolly ways.

Eve ascent is KSP's final boss, due to its incredibly thick atmosphere and powerful gravity well. It's easy enough to send stuff there, but quite difficult to get anything back from the surface.

In any event: I would strongly suggest teaching yourself to dock in LKO. Remember that you want a ring of 4 RCS blocks distributed roughly around center-of-mass: that gives you full 6-axis control (pitch, yaw, roll, and translation in X, Y, and Z). The further away CoM is from the plane containing your RCS blocks, the more issues you'll have with unwanted torques during translation. You can partially alleviate that by making that ring wider; there's a mod somewhere with RCS blocks on extendable booms.

Past that, you may want to look into mods like Navyfish's Docking Port Alignment Indicator, which I use religiously for docking.

 

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I'll put in a vote for "neither" and recommend Ike as your first interplanetary target. Easy to access and offers excellent science. Both thrust and DV requirements are lower for an Ike mission than Eve *or* Duna.

I strongly recommend learning how to dock proficiently. It's a vital skill for this game.

Best,
-Slashy

Edited by GoSlash27
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32 minutes ago, nascarlaser1 said:

Thxs @GoSlash27 @Starman4308 and @draalo!

 

1 question though. Do any of these planets require maunervour nodes? if so I need to learn those too :P.

 

Well, nothing REQUIRES maneuver nodes, but maneuver nodes make everything way easier.

1 hour ago, Starman4308 said:

Yes. Absolutely impossible.

Okay, so it might be a little difficult for new players. And mostly I just wanted an excuse to link Macollo's video.

That video is precisely why I said "nearly impossible".

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24 minutes ago, sevenperforce said:

That video is precisely why I said "nearly impossible".

The video is about going to Mars, not Duna. The delta V requirements of RSS are vastly greater than stock, plus he was using TAC Life Support.

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1 hour ago, nascarlaser1 said:

Thxs @GoSlash27 @Starman4308 and @draalo!

 

1 question though. Do any of these planets require maunervour nodes? if so I need to learn those too :P.

 

Maneuver nodes are recommended but not necessary. Patched conics aren't technically mandatory, but I'd never try an interplanetary mission without them.

Best,
-Slashy

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I'd recommend flybys of Eve and Duna and their moons, plus you will take in the sun's SOI

Next mission, land on those planets' moons.

Finally do Duna. By then you will have fleshed out the tech tree and opened up all the options. 

PS - Forget docking if it is a pain. There is rarely a need for it. You can either build a craft where the lander can return to Kerbin or else get a lander back to orbit and within 50m or so of a mothership then just EVA over the crew and the science data.   

Edited by Foxster
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25 minutes ago, Foxster said:

I'd recommend flybys of Eve and Duna and their moons, plus you will take in the sun's SOI

Next mission, land on those planets' moons.

Finally do Duna. By then you will have fleshed out the tech tree and opened up all the options. 

PS - Forget docking if it is a pain. There is rarely a need for it. You can either build a craft where the lander can return to Kerbin or else get a lander back to orbit and within 50m or so of a mothership then just EVA over the crew and the science data.   

ok thxs! this is all going to be in sandbox, so science/money/parts are no problem for me :).

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Since no one has suggested Gilly yet, I'll do so. Eve is pretty easy to get to and, because of it's high gravity, an easy capture as well. In direct contrast, it's moon, Gilly, has almost no gravity. It's remarkably easy to land and take off from. You can even take a Kerbal off the surface and into orbit Superman-style if you want.

As an alternative, if you include mining equipment on your ship, even a beginner could pretty easily land on both Duna and Ike. After landing on Duna, just drill and refuel and then do the same on Ike before heading home. This would be a pretty good way to get a feel for landing on other worlds. And you'll learn quite a bit along the way as well.

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This is a pretty good tutorial on how to get to Gilly.

 

If you really want to land on Eve, I built an Ascent Vehicle wich is pretty easy to land and Ascent with. It's pretty heavy though and it only gets your Kerbals to Low Eve Orbit, not all the way home. 

Get the easy to fly Eve vehicle here!

 

Edited by Physics Student
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Preaching my own stuff here, but I've done two videos that are related to docking, especially for interplanetary missions. Namely "How to dock" and "Getting and tweaking encounters" (to get into specific target orbits). Here's the playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLlNSkke84Au42uwbN6L_xUum2Vxf1SsYU

...and direct links to both videos:

Docking

Encounters

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4 minutes ago, Ohm is Futile said:

Preaching my own stuff here, but I've done two videos that are related to docking, especially for interplanetary missions. Namely "How to dock" and "Getting and tweaking encounters" (to get into specific target orbits). Here's the playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLlNSkke84Au42uwbN6L_xUum2Vxf1SsYU

...and direct links to both videos:

Docking

Encounters

yay! thxs! to start out I might go with @Foxster's idea of just going on eva and leaving the empty command behind.

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6 hours ago, Cpt Kerbalkrunch said:

Since no one has suggested Gilly yet, I'll do so. Eve is pretty easy to get to and, because of it's high gravity, an easy capture as well. In direct contrast, it's moon, Gilly, has almost no gravity. It's remarkably easy to land and take off from.

Gilly's a good choice too. Eve has an inclined orbit and Gilly is really inclined (and eccentric) so Gilly encounters are a little more challenging. Gilly also gives you pretty much no Oberth effect due to the low orbital velocity involved. But as you point out, a compressed air horn is adequate to get you to the surface and back. Not a lot of biomes down there, but that's not a priority in this case.

Best,
-Slashy
 

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